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Mages in 5.22...... HELP!

Zolob··16 votes·1,677 views

Im not entirely sure whats going with my main champs Liss,Lux, and Vel but I feel like I haven't been doing any damage with them (Maybe these new masteries are messing with me, or the new items sets etc.). Now im not saying im a perfect player but I had finally been able to feel comfortable in SIlver (BIG achievement for me) in laning with my mages. Now I have read board after board after board on how this new "meta" has ruined mages and such, but I cant seem to find a clear answer that could help me play better against all these AD champs. I went against a panth mid as Liss and normally when im matched up against him I zone him with my Q and whenever he tries to engage with me I would just W->E out of there and harass him with some more Q's. However now my Q doesnt seem to even affect him , and those regular auto attacks take only 4 hits to bring me down. Idk what im doing wrong and im sure its partly due to the fact that im only a silver ranked player......BUT I've never sucked this bad before in any lane. Hopefully someone can help me out or at least acknowledge a similar issue so I know im not in this boat alone.

A concerned Summoner

17 Comments

Sir Hammerlock7 votes

Early/Mid Game AD Champions have received a substantial buff with the new masteries and itemizations, and there's been a drastic increase in games ending between the 25-30 minute mark (Used to be 35-45 in S5), this is causing most mages (who scale late game) to become obsolete.

I am an avid Anivia main, but she's having so much trouble even being viable in the game at the moment, thanks to the incredible power early game AD champions have. I think Riot may have overdone this.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Hammerlock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lQke8re8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-12T23:00:31.997+0000)

Early/Mid Game AD Champions have received a substantial buff with the new masteries and itemizations, and there's been a drastic increase in games ending between the 25-30 minute mark (Used to be 35-45 in S5), this is causing most mages (who scale late game) to become obsolete.

I am an avid Anivia main, but she's having so much trouble even being viable in the game at the moment, thanks to the incredible power early game AD champions have. I think Riot may have overdone this.

fiddle is next to unplayable right now

JJI7444 votes

Only 2 really obvious things I am aware of:

  1. Ban Yasuo.
  2. It is a little odd, but burst mages seem to get more benefit from the cunning tree, instead of ferocity. The Keystone masteries in Ferocity just don't have much synergy with burst.

As for a lack of damage: the Lux game I played was the first time I actually felt threatening as Lux. Now that may well be that I had a good game (as opposed to my normally sub-par performance as Lux), but anecdotally, I felt I did a lot more damage than before.

Kashpipek3 votes

Early game champs (especially AD, like Pantheon) have been given huge boosts with their itemization. They can get much more power much quicker than AP mages can (due to lower AD item costs and higher AP items costs). So, if you're against early game ad champs like panth as a mage, you're probably going to lose. And thanks to the minion rework and overall increased pacing of the game, you will probably also lose the game unless your teamates are fed.

Zolob1 votes

So my best bet would be to stay away from AP champs for a little , or fiddle with these new masteries and items? Sorry I don't mean to sound redundant

Disulfiram2 votes

No please.

Don't mention Fiddle.

If there's a mage that's going to suffer with the item changes, that's him.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

JJI7442 votes

{quoted}

So my best bet would be to stay away from AP champs for a little , or fiddle with these new masteries and items? Sorry I don't mean to sound redundant

I don't think you need to avoid AP champions, although others may disagree.

Right now there are a couple of outlier champs that are too strong (Yasuo, Tryndamere, Graves). But aside from those, AP champs are holding their own against the competition.

Again, the cunning tree seems to work better for burst mages, the ferocity tree for sustained damage mages.

I Miss Cannon1 votes

Lux is still broken but k, yeah go main something else.

Dingding1231 votes

For mages this season, it's less about bursting and trading, and more about pushing creeps and playing the map. LB for example: she's not so much an assassin anymore; she's much like ahri, able to move around the map quickly and pick her fights.

Lannister1 votes

Personally I'm torn on this patch. My Brand has suffered with the new mana/regen changes as I'm not able to rush my regular liandry/rylais core without having serious mana issues in lane, and I mean SERIOUS... still looking for a way to offset this with a bit of experimenting.

However, lux has been hilariously fun and effective in my opinion. Grabbing Thunderlord's Decree as a keystone is amazing as it procs with her passive. It's a shame that this keystone seems to be only useable on some cheesy/gimmick mechanics, since I can see it having some nice potential away from the seemingly overused Deathfire.

Overall I'm not sure what to think just yet. Perhaps people are overreacting, perhaps it's justified. Either way, there's bound to be adjustments to the changes made, so I'll be keeping that in mind.

The Fast2 votes

Brand? Really? He's the only mage I haven't felt the nerfs on. He has higher mana regen than other mages, so the new Doran's RIng works on him REALLY well. Triple double/triple Doran's into your Burn Build. DoT mages are among the only mages that got buffed due to Deathfire adding 30% AP to DoTs that last 4 seconds, going up with duration. Keeping Brand passive on for 6s is 50%, etc

Kitten of Evil1 votes

For mana problems, I've been trying out an occasional item 3098 on Brand mid. 100% mana regen for cheap (850g). You can also proc the passive on towers or before a minion wave arrives, or if you upgrade it to the new item 3092 killing minions doesn't disable the passive and you also get the really helpful ghost passive. Also 150% base regen.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

Its probably a mix of the masteries and items.

For masteries, as stated by others before me, the cunning tree has a lot going for burst mages. The only reason to go down ferocity is for the 7% magic pen and deathfire touch.

  • 7% magic pen is nice lategame but the flat magic pen does more early. For example if Pantheon runes scaling MR Blues, they get stronger than flat MR blues at level 8. With his base MR and scaling MR runes at level 8, he will have around 58 MR. Your magic pen reds will reduce this to around 50. Ferocity will give a 3.5 MR reduction for 50 MR. Cunning will give 5.4 MR Reduction all the time. NOTE - this compounded if you get magic pen items, since flat is calculated before %. So if you get the +15 magic pen from sorc shoes when Pantheon has 58MR, ferocity will give about a 2.5 MR Reduction. Cunning still gives 5.4
  • Deathfire does a nice 20% AP Burn over 3 seconds, but burst mages arent interested in the burn. DOT mages, sustain mages, and poke mages like the burn that they can have going over the entire enemy team over 4-5 seconds. Burst mages would much rather favor the extra 10% AP ratio. Ask yourself - would you buy Liandries torment on the champion or Ludens Echo? If you would rather get Liandries, go for the burn. If youd rather get Ludens, go for the extra immediate damage. Most burst mages would rather have upfront damage to get a kill.

Secondly, AP items got nerfed while MR got buffed. What does this mean? You can no longer wait on getting raw damage. Its nice to have the Luden proc, the Rylai slow, or the Zhonyas. But youll have to sacrifice damage for it. Instead try getting a deathcap second item - youll see a huge spike in damage at the expense of the utility the other items give.

The Patriachy1 votes

You want to run RoA+AA and get 350 ap that way. CDR from runes. Void 3rd item.

You have to be strong in the current meta with 2 items and that is the only way to do it. It also isn't possible to sit on 1400g waiting to finish your deathcap midgame.

Jofeyy1 votes

I feel this 100% :(

Michael7021 votes

Range mages are dead. Veigar and Lux were my AP champs S5. 7 KDA & 66% win rate. I could get to 40% CDR with item 3158 and item 3165 . Now those items only get me to 30%. I can't 100-0 anybody anymore. If your team doesn't consist of at least 4 ADCs (melee or range), you already lost.

Stevev451 votes

{quoted} I went against a panth mid as Liss and normally when im matched up against him I zone him with my Q and whenever he tries to engage with me I would just W->E out of there and harass him with some more Q's. However now my Q doesnt seem to even affect him , a

A concerned Summoner

Just a tip. Start checking your opponents stats regularly and especially right at the start of game. You should know how much MR they have. If you check this enough you start to know when they can be harassed with your q, and when they have so much MR that it isn't worth spending your mana.

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