Gragas is not allowed to be a ranged assassin

Ernard·Apr 17, 2016·15 votes·1,018 views

24 Comments

MokkunApr 17, 201616 votes

Burst mage =/= assassin.

Also, Gragas had character identity issues. He's written as a rabble rousing bar brawler. He was being a long range mage. Thematically, he was supposed to be in your face. Kit-wise, he wasn't doing that.

The Yetii RiderApr 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Burst mage =/= assassin.

Also, Gragas had character identity issues. He's written as a rabble rousing bar brawler. He was being a long range mage. Thematically, he was supposed to be in your face. Kit-wise, he wasn't doing that.

So they gave him a stun. That worked. Then Ekko was born of the same desire.

EndlessSorcererApr 17, 20167 votes

I think you missed the purpose of the Gragas rework entirely.

The main issues with him pre-work were:

Massive lane sustain (due to healing passive and W restoring mana
100% uptime on his damage reduction and bonus AD with some CDR
The fact that his burst damage would rival dedicated burst mages when he was intended to be a tanky fighter
His E, R and damage reduction making him extremely difficult to actually kill even if he built full AP

His rework solved all of those issues rather well.

Well, except for the last point. But considering he's pretty much a bruiser/tank now, durability and being difficult to pin down actually suit him.

GaleWinUnleashedApr 17, 20161 votes

Honestly I love his new W. Smashing his keg on things is so satisfying.

JbelsApr 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think you missed the purpose of the Gragas rework entirely.

The main issues with him pre-work were:

Massive lane sustain (due to healing passive and W restoring mana

100% uptime on his damage reduction and bonus AD with some CDR

The fact that his burst damage would rival dedicated burst mages

His E, R and damage reduction making him extremely difficult to actually kill even if he built full AP

His rework solved all of those issues rather well.

Well, except for the last point. But considering he's pretty much a bruiser/tank now, durability and being difficult to pin down actually suit him.

I forget, what was he even supposed to be when he first came out? I think I saw him mostly played in mid?

EndlessSorcererApr 17, 20161 votes

IIRC, they intended for Gragas to be a tanky disruptive fighter, but it turned out that the most effective build for him was AP burst mage.

His rework was quite successful at moving him into his intended role.

hOrnnApr 17, 20166 votes

When ap graggy was strong his qr deleted teams.

JoramisloveApr 17, 20162 votes

lux ER doesn't. ok

hOrnnApr 17, 20165 votes

U can dodge lux easier and she blows up.

Voluug13Apr 17, 20161 votes

Lux actually dies when you reach her.

Gragas had ludicrous sustain (both mana AND HP) on his kit, along with a 20% DR. And a teamfight deciding ult on top of being ludicrously strong as a nuke.

Lux has a snare and damage and that is it.

67chromeApr 17, 20165 votes

Gragas is not allowed to be a ranged assassin

Lux isn't an assassin. She's a mage.

The term Assassin means a champion that predominantly relies on speed to survive long enough to do their job. Good mobility and in particular fast casting times and fast combos so they can never stop moving. Assassin also generally indicates a strong 1v1 champion capable of isolating and taking out a specific target, but a poor team fighter.

Lux's capacity to eradicate things with her QWER burst like every other mage and mid-lane champion in the game does not make her an assassin. At max range, Lux's combo is also more telegraphed and slower moving than Chogath rupture, putting her at Dragonball Z levels in regards to lacking surprise and speed.

It's also worth noting Gragas had issues more on the "kit is extremely overloaded and does everything" front, not "Gragas is a perfectly balanced mage Riot is nerffing because reasons" front. Gragas is a top-tier jungler at the competitive level now, and prior to his rework he was a S+ tier mid-lanner that won every lane matchup by having better poke, sustain, durability, AA power, and all-in potential.

QuickScopeKlaasApr 17, 20163 votes

if you can't 100-0 anything that you hit with your Q (IT LASTS 2 SECONDS) you are a horrible lux player

67chromeApr 17, 20162 votes

You seem to be confused about combo-time speeds:

Morgana 2.5 second snare = eternity Fizz full combo landed in 1 frame = fast

Considering my entire post generally made the point burst does not mean assassin, you're reading compression skills could also use some work.

IAMS4T4NApr 17, 20163 votes

gragas is fucking aids

warpenguin555Apr 17, 20162 votes

how are either one of those 2 champions assassins?

Meep ManApr 17, 20162 votes

This is the most apples to oranges thing I have ever seen.

ErdamonApr 17, 20162 votes

Well, Lux doesn't have god-tier mobillity

Sniper 0Apr 17, 20161 votes

Lux also buckles when you get on top of her.

ErnardApr 17, 20161 votes

2 second snare level 1 (RIP Swain ) that hits you and your jungler, 5 second slow and shield

Voluug13Apr 17, 20161 votes

Snare =/= Stun.

People can still cast and AA her.

And if 1 Q snared both you and your jungler, well, what a shity gank it was.

Billy VoHagenApr 17, 20161 votes

I don't even understand how this is comparable. Graham's was able to be extremely tanky and provide a lot more CC when he was a ranged Mage. That's kinda what he is now, but toned down.