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Ekko identity. exploring ways to nerf/buff Ekko without destroying his identity.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf··5 votes·1,269 views

First let me start of by saying: This is not a "EKKO OP PLZ NERF" or "EKKO BAD PLZ BUFF" thread. This thread is about changing the way Ekko is played as he does not currently fit the theme of being "SMART". There are currently problems with Ekko's play-patterns not being unique enough and not rewarding players for the right things.

These are some of the problems but if you have other concerns with his play patterns or disagree you can leave a comment below:

  1. Ekko's ult is currently not only a GREAT zoning tool but also such a big nuke and a get away tool with healing, this creates problems with balancing these decisions to make it a "strategic choice" and not just a "use this option cause it's more powerfull no matter the case".

  2. Ekko has a lot of sustained damage over longer periods of time wich is great for this new skirmishing assasin theme, but combined with the massive burst he currently has it only makes him play out like a normal assassin who keeps being a threat after the first in.

  3. Ekko has a really inconsistent powerlevel wich then leads to him either being too strong in some instances or if nerfed ** too weak most of the time.**

Next post will provide options on how to change some of these problems.

22 Comments

KazaLyn Shao4 votes

Honestly, if they nuked his identity completely I wouldn't shed a tear. His current identity is stupid and does not resemble his lore or videos. Roll up and toss in the garbage, then start from scratch.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf2 votes

Then what is his current identity according to you?

doublelift fg1 votes

he doesn't have an identity, he was supposed to be an uncatchable (like weaver in dota 2) assassin with low damage (what a fcking joke design) an assassin who takes more time to kill you. what he became cause of riot's design crue is an assassin with high damage, high surviv. and of course high mobility.

and why? just because his passive is so broken, if he didn't have 70% ap ratio he wouldn't have burst.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

inconsistent powerlevel wich then leads to him either being too strong in some instances or if nerfed too weak most of the time.

this kinda applies to everything that riot pumps out lately

admiralcourvoisi1 votes

Maybe you could reduce the time that his ult rewinds to 2 seconds?

Also, remove the passive execute on his W. I feel like that's just unnecessary.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf2 votes

What would reducing the time on his ult to 2 sec provide except being a nerf to his long time fighting abillity while telling him to kill and run even more?? I >>personally<< don't think it would be a great idea to make even more leblanc style assassins.

The passive on his W is meant as a replacement for his burst.. wich still exists.. so yeah I guess you're right if they want to keep him as a burst-assassin then the execute should go away..

But as Riot said this champ wasn't going to be another burst assassin, and instead he was going to kill his enemies in prolonged battles (like some ADCs) while protected by his team + his kit.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

I´m not even sure if he currently has any identity besides jumping around and watch the world burn...unexpectedly he really does feel a little uninspired to play.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf2 votes

He's identity is "supposed" to be a SMART assasin but IMHO he currently just goes in and kills targets like any other assassin only that he then ults and does this a second time.

My favorite playpattern on Ekko (that 1. is not abusive and 2. feels rewarding) is going in to engage a fight as Ekko, then using ult after less than 4 seconds to go out and let your team attack the now disoriented enemy team, then when the enemies get low he can go in and clean up using his W execute.

His current playpattern let's him poke while his team fights and then go in twice trying to get as many kills as posible this gives low counterplay, high snowballing capabillities (on kata/yasuo level) and doesn't really feel rewarding

Earl Eulrich1 votes

i personally think he has the same problem that diana has/had...he´s a bruiser and an assassin at the same time. So Riot really needs to pick one thing and focus on that...giving him a lcear identity first adn than fixing his kit accordingly.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf2 votes

They already decided he is supposed to be a "skirmisher" he is not supposed to instantly kill an enemy like le blanc, he should be more about killing enemies in prolonged battles or in multiple "skirmishes" (multiple minor battles, mostly in the jungle).

Earl Eulrich1 votes

"skirmisher" is a very loose term, even Zed can be considered a skirmisher. If they want him to be about sustained dmg than a lot of the numbers have to get tuned down, basestats should rise and his tankiness would have to be slightly improved...and the shield and ult should scale with defstats instead of ap to make tanky builds more preferable.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf2 votes

He is not supposed to be built tanky. His survivabillity should come from dodging abillites (E/R), shielding/healing himself (W/R) and by not taking the damage in the first place. (Allies/Ekko peeling/W stun etc.) The problem is that the shield and heal are undertuned while Ekko's pure damage is off the charts.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

that would be an assassin pattern then. If he should work as a fighter you have to take burst off him and add suvaivability. I personally also would favour shifting the stun to his ult and removing the dmg.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf1 votes

First of yes they should remove (or MASSIVELY reduce) his burst.

Secondly, no that's not the assassin pattern.

Think of having him as a DPS style character, but instead of constantly dealing damage he does this in the same way as assassins. And no i don't mean in kill and out, I mean in get one down to 60% of his hp and out, shortly after a second burst now he is at 20% and then a third one where he kills this enemy and a secondary one who is running away, during his engages he would have to get peeled by his team or heavily outsmart his opponents to not get bursted down.

In the same way you could imagine his other downside compared to an adc being that he does not lifesteal, instead his regen comes from his ult and he gets some survivability from his shield (wich should be increased later in the game maybe with increased scaling on it if they remove the AP scaling from his ultimate.)

I wrote two simillar ones comparing him to a fighter and an assassin but the post became too long and I replaced them with this:

Compared to an average adc:

  1. (=)He would have windows of power (where as most adcs have a pretty consistent damage output).
  • (=)He would have slightly higher burst, with slightly lower overall dps.
  • (+) He would be a solo laner.
  • (--) But that also means he won't have a babysitter caring for him.
  • (--) He would be melee. (whereas adcs are ranged)

Compared to an average assassin:

  1. (--) He would not be able to one-shot enemies.
  • (=) His team would have to peel for him
  • (+) But if they do so he is more effective than assassins.
  • (--) He would lose all-ins vs assassins in the early game.
  • (+) He would not be as snowball dependent.

Compared to an average Fighter

  1. (--) He would be squishier.
  • (+) He would be very mobile.
  • (=) His windows of opportunity would have greater highs and lows.
  • (--) He needs peel to surive long enough.
  • (+) He has much stronger zoning.
Earl Eulrich1 votes

i understand were you´re coming from, but i still think there should be some more preference on him building tanky. Otherwise you´ll always run into the pattern were his mobility alone turns him into an assassin with Lichbane/Ludens+high-AP...it´s pretty similar to Kassadin atm, his basedmg is ridiculously low and the scaling medicore, but if you´ve ever seen a 600+ap kassadin with lichbane - he´ll stilll kill a carry in one rotation.

DrCyanide1 votes

Look for powerful stuff that doesn't need to be there and nerf that.

For example, his shield. It doesn't really need to be there thematically, it's intended to make his all in safer.

Or you could nerf his bonus damage to low health targets. It's not really core, since when you think about Ekko you don't think about "I'm going to auto attack every person below X% health".

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf1 votes

As his W passive was partly meant for farming how about making it instantly kill minions and monsters below 3/4/5/6/7% health (does not work vs Epic monsters)

Also, his shield is currently a bit strong because his entire kit is a bit unbalanced right now, if they pushed him to be more of a skirmisher/mage and less of a burst-y character I think that the shield would not be so opressive.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf1 votes

This Post will discuss changes to Ekko's ultimate exploring ways to increase it's counterplay and the adding of strategic decisions when using his ult.

  • Option 1. Reducing the damage on Ekko's Ult. By nerfing the damage to Ekko's ult you would reduce the massive threat it currently provides for the enemy team, while also adding space for more power elsewhere in his kit. This would make "spawn killing" a viable option of counter play, where you have a member of your team wait at his ghosts location and kill him once he burns it. But at the same as increasing the use of Ekko's other options, it would probably also remove the "Nuke" and "Zoning" options. therefore I personally think this could be a bad idea.

  • Option 2. Lowering the Area of Effect on Ekko's ult. Currently Ekko can create zones greater than Ziggs ult in wich the enemies should not move, while you could think of this as a"smart" way of using his ult it's more something that happens automatically even when not thinking about it. Therefore it's currently too powerfull in some of the cases where it's not used correctly. (AKA not being used SMART at all.) This nerf would let Ekko keep his current options on his Ultimate while actually providing easier counterplay for the enemy team (moving out of the zone).

  • Option 3. Increasing the channel/invulnerability time of Ekko's ult before he apears at the new location as well as Putting an AOE indicator, simmilar to Ziggs or Pantheons ult, during this time. By doing the change described above you make the "dodging" and "zoning" uses of this abillity more viable while not removing any other options. This would also give the enemies some time to react to Ekko's Ult.

Please do note that applying all of these to some degree would still move his power from one point to another.

EDIT: For example if you nerf the scaling of Ekko's ult slightly to stop snowballing, give him a longer invulnerability/channel and either reducing the AOE of Ekko's ult or giving it an indicator. This would both increase counterplay and the usefullness of Ekko's ult.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Ekko needs to COMPLETELY lose the heal on his ult, or completely lose the damage on it. The OP jerk already has the best shield in the game, he doesn't need MORE durability. They gave him NONE of the weaknesses of an assassin, but all of their strengths. He's garbage and needs gutting and HARD.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf1 votes

As said in the post above the damage of the ult is there to stop people from waiting for him in the new area. Although this is VERY overtuned right now. the scaling should probably be removed entirely from the ult as the base damage is still really high, and the more I see him in game the more I know that the radius on his ult is way too big, currently it doesn't only disincentivize waiting at his new location (like it should) but it also makes it imposible to chase him and gives him TONS of burst (something a skirmisher shouldn't have AT ALL) in teamfights.

Mandang01 votes

What is his identity?

Is he supposed to burst? Is he supposed to brawl? Is he supposed to zone?

I could just as easily see Riot nerfing: the healing on his ult as the damage the stun on his W as the on-hit passive the slow on his passive as the damage on it

If Riot wants to make him about outstrategizing your opponent rather than reflex outplays, I say they remove his burst, but that's just my take.

Dr Lamb Mr Wolf1 votes

I personally agree with you on removing his burst, espesially since riot said he wasn't supposed to instantly kill champs. But currently he's all about killing as quick as possible.

I think the removal of his ult scaling (130% of AP --> 0% of AP) would be a great way to lower his potential burst while keeping the zoning potential of his ult. (200/350/500 damage at ranks 1/2/3)

To compensate for this they should either increase the range on his E (1st, 2nd or both halves) or lower the cooldown on his ult. (from 110/90/70 to 90/80/70 sec at ranks 1/2/3) The reason why I suggest these changes specifically is because giving Ekko more health and/or more damage would be really dangerous.

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