if you are gonna play brand or lux as a support buy a fucking sightstone. Vision wins games, not just your poke. Your poke is shit if you cant see anyone coming. And then you flame the adc because he is playing so passive with no vision
fuffychan9 votesOh look another upvote farm thread
Mig8911 votesHe could just be venting. Not having sight stone is a huge disadvantage
meowwow72 votesyeah especially against a 
or 
Ainvar2 votesHe could just be venting. Not having sight stone is a huge disadvantage
Im zyra support main. First item i get is sightstone. Because vision wins games. when i play adc i put as many wards as i can. i always have a control ward in my inventory at all times.
Mig892 votesIm a zyra support main and typically you do not need ss before your tier two item. Your level 3 is stronger than almost anyone else's and as long as you keep that river bush warded, you dont need SS first. The extra mana regen and gold generation is more valuable early.You can usually predict where the enemy jungler is at those early levels as well. Thats just me though. I do agree it should always be your first "completed" item, just not that rushed. I looked at your op.gg and Id recommend getting rylais before liandrys. It helps get your plants some extra attacks in and provides more peel for your team. Also, when your checking bushes with your plants, if there is an enemy in it, you get more time to react because of the slow. Zyra is squishy, its more important to keep that safe space than it is to deal 2%dmg on hit.
DemoGuide1 votesDude, that just duplicity. You just said under my comment that sighstone is a mustbuy, and here you are talking about delaying it for a core item. Care to explain?
Mig891 votesI said build eye first. I just got into talking to him about getting rylais before liandrys. I said I get tier2 gold item before SS but that's not a completed item. I always have SS before any other item and even completed boots. Either I wrote it wrong or you didn't read it. (tiem two item is not a completed item, just the first upgraded support item)
Ainvar1 votesI said build eye first. I just got into talking to him about getting rylais before liandrys. I said I get tier2 gold item before SS but that's not a completed item. I always have SS before any other item and even completed boots. Either I wrote it wrong or you didn't read it. (tiem two item is not a completed item, just the first upgraded support item)
i saw what you said. you didnt say it wrong
Ainvar1 votesIm a zyra support main and typically you do not need ss before your tier two item. Your level 3 is stronger than almost anyone else's and as long as you keep that river bush warded, you dont need SS first. The extra mana regen and gold generation is more valuable early.You can usually predict where the enemy jungler is at those early levels as well. Thats just me though. I do agree it should always be your first "completed" item, just not that rushed. I looked at your op.gg and Id recommend getting rylais before liandrys. It helps get your plants some extra attacks in and provides more peel for your team. Also, when your checking bushes with your plants, if there is an enemy in it, you get more time to react because of the slow. Zyra is squishy, its more important to keep that safe space than it is to deal 2%dmg on hit.
Sometimes i buy Rylais before. But usually the magic pen is too easy to pass up. obviously i can carry with zyra bot lane. If i go against a tank lane i will.
Glory ln Death1 votesI would argue that every support should normally pick up their T2 gold gen item before Sightstone - the increased gold gen will let you finish your Quest significantly faster, which is massive for supports.
IcyPepper1 votesNot using trinkets is a bigger disadvantage if you ask me, but that's more common of a problem and gets less focus in threads.
We get it. Supports need sightstone.
Gameplay is not for venting.
Mig891 votesOf course not using trinket is a disadvantage
IcyPepper1 votesI can say the same for sightstone, but which problem gets more threads?
Mig891 votesNot having SS because it provides more vision than trinkets?
IcyPepper1 votesFour people with a trinket that has two charges has more impact than one person with a sightstone. Sightstone individually is stronger, but collectively four people not warding impacts the team greater.
Sightstone is a tool, not a crutch. Trinket habits are equally important as more people rely on them for vision.
Mig891 votesYes but a lot of players upgrade their trinket for either sweeper or blue. This doesnt take away from their trinket vaule but SS proved a majority of vision mid-late and sweepers from allies helps remove enemy vision. This isnt an argument. Both are important and should be utilized. Not having it is almost as similar as another player having no trinket at all.
IcyPepper1 votesMy main complaint here is that only one gets dozens upon dozens of threads about it, despite it being obvious that both are important. It's a lot easier to get a free pass not warding enough with your trinket than it is to not buy sightstone (regardless of your actual warding habits).
One is a much more visible issue, yet gets more "PSA" threads about it. Logically, shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't we call attention to the issue that's a lot less obvious than hitting tab?
Ainvar1 votesNot using trinkets is a bigger disadvantage if you ask me, but that's more common of a problem and gets less focus in threads.
We get it. Supports need sightstone.
Gameplay is not for venting.
I agree its a problem. Just not one for me when i play adc. i always use trinket and usually get farsight at level 9-11
IcyPepper1 votesWell you sir are a godsend ;~;
Tupaco2 votesHe never played with a brand support only a brand mid in the past games
Ainvar2 votesOh look another upvote farm thread
Right 2 upvotes counts. If you arent going to be constructive then dont get on the boards.
IcyPepper1 votesAre you going to make a follow up thread on a more common issue: the other four players using their trinkets?
Tobias Brackner1 votesPlay more League. There are still plenty of players that don't ward and plenty of supp that don't get sightstone.
Ainvar2 votes[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kgHvsbdX,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2017-06-08T19:16:33.662+0000)
Play more League. There are still plenty of players that don't ward and plenty of supp that don't get sightstone.
Hence the reason i was saying something. Because when i do, i wholeheartedly believe i need sightstone. yet if i ad my support never buys it.
DemoGuide3 votesDon't even bother getting sightstone until you got your core items. Usually, its past 20 minutes when you need vision. In soloq, there are so many jungler that just don't know how to gank properly, or just don't gank at all. In 90% of games you can be safe just by using your trinkets. As mage support, you would rather have a bunch of cdr and mana/manaregen, so you can effectively poke enemies and have some extra mana in case of fight/gank. Winning lane almost equals to winning game right now. If you managed to get ahead of your opponent as a mage support, you better invest it in either Burst or Anti-Burst(Locket). And only then you can go for vision. Usually it happens by 20 minute mark, and there is not much point investing into vision, it's not gonna hurt unless they are playing as a team, but again, it's soloQ, so i would not count on that.
Mig897 votesThis is a bad suggestion. Youre suggesting that people bank on the enemy jungler being brainless.. I prefer to force enemies to make mistakes instead of hoping to god that the enemy doesnt take advantage of mine, Not buying a sighstone and fighting without vision is a bad judgement call. Your yellow trinket may help prevent ganks but that is not enough. A sightstone literally allows you to gank an enemy jungler in his jungle, setup vision on the entire river, ward your entire jungle in the event of a strong counter jungler enemy, keep the brushes warded in lane to either setup a tp play/ prevent enemy cheese, etc. You dont buy sightstone just to prevent ganks. Its the same simple minded thinking that prevents people from climbing. Im not challenger but I can recognize the usefulness of the item. I had a 65% winrate playing support and taking advantage of SS is why our lane almost always won. Just flat out made more impact on the map.
ChaddyFantome3 votesThis is a bad suggestion. Youre suggesting that people bank on the enemy jungler being brainless.. I prefer to force enemies to make mistakes instead of hoping to god that the enemy doesnt take advantage of mine, Not buying a sighstone and fighting without vision is a bad judgement call. Your yellow trinket may help prevent ganks but that is not enough. A sightstone literally allows you to gank an enemy jungler in his jungle, setup vision on the entire river, ward your entire jungle in the event of a strong counter jungler enemy, keep the brushes warded in lane to either setup a tp play/ prevent enemy cheese, etc. You dont buy sightstone just to prevent ganks. Its the same simple minded thinking that prevents people from climbing. Im not challenger but I can recognize the usefulness of the item. I had a 65% winrate playing support and taking advantage of SS is why our lane almost always won. Just flat out made more impact on the map.
^ This person gets it.
Mig892 votesThank you. On the flip side, if your strategy is to live in a bubble bot lane and ignore everything else, by all means don't buy that SS and give me the freelo lol
ChaddyFantome1 votesAs a support player myself, i cannot stress how important Sightstone is.
In like 90% of scenarios, the team with no Sightstone loses.
Straight up.
And Sightstone become more gold efficient the earlier you buy it.
The only item i would say is valid purchase before Sightstone is the first upgrade to your support item, 
purely because of the gold influx and power it provides. But Sightstone should be purchased immediately after.
Withholding it for "moar demegez" is silly when the vision the item provides could be a free invade for you jungler and lead to a Dragon, or even just protecting the lanes both mid and bot from jungle pressure. Damage doesn't mean shit if you can't fkin see, lmao. and the Regen from tier 2 support items is all you really need for laning.
Mig891 votesI whole heartedly agree. My first back is usually tier two gold item and boots if I can grab it which is normal plus a red ward. My second back, unless I die, is always SS and sometimes we have a kill or two and I can get eye of the watcher, etc
DemoGuide1 votesNo, i bank on my own map awareness and trinkets. Trinkets are enough for me. You are bringing argument that warding helps climbing. Well, playing mage supports offensively also helps climbing, otherwise i wouldn't say so. Also, i especially wanted to point the advice is for mage supports like Zyra, Brand, Lux, Karma, Morgana or Zilean. Winning a lane is really close to winning a game right now, and soloQ junglers are not as good as professionals. I wouldn't call it banking on a bad jungler, i call it knowing the environment you are playing and knowing your own abilities. Your chances at climbing in a low elo are better if you don't rely on your team map awareness. You win the lane, win the game, grab your LP and start another. Vision becomes more important as the time goes on, to control crucial point of river, but investing into lane advantage early on is a better strategy. Get your core items for lane pressure/teamfighting, then get your vision. Yes, you may chose to invest into stability of endless warding, blah, blah, my lane is 100% safe from gank. But smarter usage of your resources (yes, trinket warding included) may grant much more benefits.
Mig891 votesGood luck friend. I don't ward for my teammates benefit only.
Just Blame Jenny1 votesMan, if winning lane were close to winning game, I'd be challenger by now.
That aside, I'm confused.
How are you warding your jungle, your lane, and the enemy jungle with a trinket?
How are you reliably winning lane at your elo without setting up opportunities to pounce on (that the enemy team doesn't have)? I can see going 50/50 in lane this way, but winning the majority of the time?
Unless you're playing below your elo. In which case, sure. But then, how is that advice useful to anyone that wants to climb?
I'll be blunt. It doesn't sound like you understand what a sightstone is for. It's not just for warding your flanks. It's for setting up plays. Furthermore, it sounds like you're regularly playing in really low elo. And if that's the case, have you considered that maybe there is a reason for that?
RookPusher3 votesI think this suggestion is bad. If the ADC wants vision, they can buy a sightstone. You worry about farming CS - since you're garbage at it - and I'll put the enemy on a platter for you.
Everyone knows the ADC isn't looking up to see my engage in the first place. Maybe if they had to start warding they'd get the hint.
%MakeADCsWardAgain
Azure Hamster2 votesI think this suggestion is bad. If the ADC wants vision, they can buy a sightstone. You worry about farming CS - since you're garbage at it - and I'll put the enemy on a platter for you.
Everyone knows the ADC isn't looking up to see my engage in the first place. Maybe if they had to start warding they'd get the hint.
%MakeADCsWardAgain
Wow that's wrong. ADCs can't afford the damage-less slot.
RookPusher1 votesYou do no damage dead. You stay alive by looking at the map.
Hyperiön1 votesYour support keeps you alive by warding.
The adc buys Farsight.
Azure Hamster1 votesYou do no damage dead. You stay alive by looking at the map.
It is not my job as ADC to waste a damage slot on vision. It's my job to deal as much damage in as little time as possible while minimizing my exposure to attack by positioning correctly. If ADCs with sightstones were a good idea, you'd see them in pro matches.
Ainvar1 votes[{quoted}](name=Azure Hamster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kgHvsbdX,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-08T18:55:27.688+0000)
It is not my job as ADC to waste a damage slot on vision. It's my job to deal as much damage in as little time as possible while minimizing my exposure to attack by positioning correctly. If ADCs with sightstones were a good idea, you'd see them in pro matches.
But you can use your trinket and buy a control ward everytime you go back. Or at least sometimes.
Azure Hamster1 votesBut you can use your trinket and buy a control ward everytime you go back. Or at least sometimes.
Absolutely! I do use my trink, and I do buy Reds on occasion. I do forget to upgrade the trinket, but I'm genuinely forgetting... I know I should be doing it. I'm just saying I should not be using a damage slot for a sightstone. :)
Ainvar2 votes[{quoted}](name=Azure Hamster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kgHvsbdX,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T19:25:57.436+0000)
Absolutely! I do use my trink, and I do buy Reds on occasion. I do forget to upgrade the trinket, but I'm genuinely forgetting... I know I should be doing it. I'm just saying I should not be using a damage slot for a sightstone. :)
No you shouldnt have to ever
Çhåryzård2 votesI always buy sightstone as a support, but...
Use the free wards you get at the beginning of the game.
Sick of seeing my people bitch about sightstone when they've placed maybe 5 or 6 wards by the 30 minute mark and never bought a 
Mig893 votesThis is annoying early. Usually the only thing i say in a game is talking to the adc early and ill repeat "ward please" up to three times before i give up. When the map is dark because i cant afford SS yet and youve been sitting on 2 wards all game, im gonna ask you to ward lol.
reaperteaser2 votesdont forget about map awareness, vision is pointless without map awareness!
SwiftKitten881 votesdont forget about map awareness, vision is pointless without map awareness!
yes map awareness is extremely important, but i would have to disagree that vision is useless without it just because your teammates might be too dumb to look at the map YOU still can and YOU can still send a warning ping there way.
i would consider myself to have pretty damn good map awareness. (WAY higher than the vast majority of people i meet in my current rank) but at times even i have been saved by a ping by an ally pining an enemy i didn't see.
just because they don't see the map doesn't mean YOU can HELP them see it. by pinging
reaperteaser2 votesi was meaning towards anyone, that if that person has no map awareness, then warding will be of no use them specifically.
additionally, i just had a game where my jgl warded (red ward) the corner bush next to the enemy red that lasted for 25 minutes. they never checked for it, so we saw every botlane/midlane rotation and ganked every time they tried to clear their red and stole it. that ward played a major part in winning that game
Ainvar2 votesI look at the map every 5 to 8 seconds. and i always see no wards. People just want to do damage and fuck the rest of the game. Then they blame me, if i am playing support for there not being any wards. While they still have 2 stacks on their trinket ward. They dont even try to upgrade it. I played a game recently where i was the only one that bought control wards. i placed 15 throughout the game. highest ward total i have placed around 90 wards in a game not including control wards. i was just saying that if you are playing support role then buy a sightstone. Because without it there will be no vision. Because noone else will ward. Im sure that really only applies to Plat and below. But my point is there. Im tired of playing another role and still being the only one to ward. lol