Why does matchmaking come up with so many blowouts?

GrenadesAndHamm·Sep 18, 2019·26 votes·14,119 views

Seems like the majority of games, one team is blown out by the other.

Rarely is it close.

And games are so streaky. Five games lost in a row without a chance, five games won in a row by blowout.

55 Comments

flibitydooSep 18, 201915 votes

because the balance team decided

"we want decided games to end faster"

which is the wrong way to look at things

the way they should be looking at the game is

"why the hell are we even having games that are decided? every match should be close because the matchmaking should be evenly matching player skill levels as close as possible"

Kai GuySep 19, 20195 votes

MM stops the moment a lobby is made. Player decisions are everything after that point. If I dared you to play Crit Soraka adc your next ranked game. Then you did it. How in the hell is MM gonna predict you would do that?

Set realistic expectations. Target issues, This is very much a player behavior problem if its related to in game issues. MM is MMR. MMR is objective. How the game plays or what the experience is like does not matter to MMR. Just Probability and %'s

XtraThic Sep 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-09-19T00:04:13.117+0000)

MM stops the moment a lobby is made. Player decisions are everything after that point. If I dared you to play Crit adc your next ranked game. Then you did it. How in the hell is MM gonna predict you would do that?

Set realistic expectations. Target issues, This is very much a player behavior problem if its related to in game issues. MM is MMR. MMR is objective. How the game plays or what the experience is like does not matter to MMR. Just Probability and %'s

yeah, but when you get 24% winrate p4 ez in your d4 game just because he "was"masters last season thats an issue to me.

GonahtanuGepardiSep 19, 20191 votes

But that is not an issue the MM system can help. That again is the fault of the player (boosted or bought account most likely in that kind of case).

Kai GuySep 19, 20191 votes

If you want to understand MM better then i recommend studying Elo and MMR systems. I recommend Microsoft Trueskill for MMR becuase they provide the actual Numbers and have a few publications on the topic available free of charge.

To get a good feel for why a player shows up, You would need to account for # of games. Like a Road trip, it takes time to get to your destination. Also like a road trip, if you just stop, you don't move anywhere.

You would also want to check for Duoing and if the dude has any preseason games because most sites don't account for that.

People overvalue WR with out providing good context. (This is true for champions as well, OMG X HAS Y WR WTF! with out accounting for player experience on the champion. Quite silly, watch how boards erupt with opinions when a new champ or rework hit.) A 25% WR out of 4 games is not that big of a deal but after 100 that's a player who is sinking like a rock. 100% WR out of 2 games is not nearly as impressive as 80% at 200.

Plus ladder position should change the view on how strong a WR is. Any one can play to lose, its very low effort. Faker with a Iron 4 smurf having a batshit insane WR is not gonna be very shocking. Flip side some Mid tier MMR skill player buying a Diamond Account having a batshit insane loss rate is also not very shocking.

Player behaviors are a massive impact on the enjoyability of a Player vs Player game. Its there, in the name. That's gameplay, PvP gameplay. So can we please stop pretending that's not relevant in discussions about the fucking gameplay? (@everbody not directeing that at you specifically with that last bit Xtra)

XtraThic Oct 16, 20191 votes

yeah but how do you improve behaviors when riot gives less and less punishments. back in season 3 if you seen a troll you wont see them again because they get banned for like a week off of that. now if they dont directly run it down its fine of ragequit after dying 2 times oh 5 games of 5 mins longer queue

also when enemy team has 2 g4 players with 80% wr each in dia game and you got darius main who has 400 games with barely positive wr on champ its ovbius its gonna be a loss and being support you cant do a damt thing about it just sit there grining your teeth hoping for the best. sometimes thinking about quitting and going for a game on a smurf cuz there is no punishments for leaving anymore.

Kai GuyOct 16, 20191 votes

I consistently see folks who run it down getting Banned, thou folks with awfull KDA are fine. Detection seems to be chat and death locations. I don't mind a bad player losing a game as long as its not intentional. If they make effort to group and be of use I would rather have them on my team then some one whos good but rages then spends the rest of the game splitting or clearing jungle camps. Enemy at hibitor? Better go farm Top lane, that's helpful.

I still see folks get punished for AFK or rage quitting. I don't spam reports.

Overall I very much want gameplay to be more enjoyable, this involves Improvements to the behavior system. As much shit as the community gave Lyte, having a dedicated Red for behavior was good for the game. If it was up to me I would implement a system where you could spend Honor on reporting a player to escalate it to a human for review. If you spam reports for no reason you lose honor and cant use the escalation system. If you consistently remove Toxic individuals from the game get rewarded for it. Tribunal 2.0.

Automation can only go so far, once its metrics are known values its easy to evade. 1337speach for example existed just to get around chat filters.

GonahtanuGepardiSep 19, 20194 votes

Yikes, people down voting you just for stating facts. They refuse to acknowledge they are wrong and want to blame Riot for something they can't control.

Kai GuySep 19, 20191 votes

I am used to it.

I should just make a flow chart for MM complaints so the rational members of boards can save time and effort.

EleshakaiSep 20, 20191 votes

Yep, the reality is that most players sub-masters are inconsistent. Matchmaking can only account for your AVERAGE performance, but if that average is defined by one REALLY good performance and one REALLY bad performance... then the MM system has no idea which one of you is going to show up that game. If the really good you shows up, then it looks like you weren't matched against strong enough opponents, if the really BAD you shows up, then it looks like you were matched against way too good opponents.

Kai GuySep 20, 20192 votes

Yea and players have varying rates of averages. Why the distribution models matter. You need your model to account for majority's ranges.

Still averages will populate naturally, more games the more they fall into a range of consistency till you can divide them into outliers and standard.

One of the reasons sapmagic seems to be enamored with Positional MM is it helps reduce the Gap in performances.

My opinion is a lot of the ladder have similar skill at the game but suffer from consistency issues, as you improve consistency you climb. Its not just getting amazing mechanics to have higher values on your best cases, cutting away the excess weak performances will improve your rank.

Look at the # of folks who have a massive list of champions at 1-5 games and weak win rates. Often times they combine to eat their best champions wins resulting in them hovering at their MMR. Take away 16-28 losses from randomized one off games some one did for no discernable reason and that impacts their position.

Players are almost always going to use their good and better performances and write off "weak" and bad games. Like if you roll a dice. 5.5 Is the average for a d10 but if you ignore lower roles you view that same dice at a higher average. An extrema case would be to ignore anything under 9 which results in 9.5. That dice would think its self to be 40% superior to its peers averages.

EleshakaiSep 20, 20191 votes

Ya, that's why I really liked the concept of the positionals. It's a pity to me that they were scrapped.

It's why I always try to keep my teammates from ragging on someone playing poorly. It's, realistically, quite likely that that same player was carrying hard just last game... but, consistency is just not there yet.

Kai GuySep 20, 20191 votes

I beleive that riot is using positional mm. They scrapped ques. But during preseason the patch notes said they intended to run positional mm. It was only ques that got tested on na and Korea. Plus when they scrapped ques sap magic made a point to state that positional mm was looking good and should not get confused with positional ques which was being scrapped. It makes titles less accurate which has been a common complaint about mm.

Player base nowadays honestly beleive skill is expressed equally even if you can only play 1 champion or role. I dont get the logic. Just going to ignore comp synergy and matchups in a moba and content to be deadweight if ya get blocked by picks or bans?

Its easyer and less time to otp something but the attitude really should be that more flexibility = more skill. Not a popular opinion.

GonahtanuGepardiSep 19, 20194 votes

"we want decided games to end faster"

which is the wrong way to look at things

That's actually the correct way to look at it. A decided game is not a game where the other team has a slight lead. It's a game that is already 99% over but just requires the winning team to finish it. So making them finish the game faster is only a good thing so everyone can get to the next one without pointless delays.

"why the hell are we even having games that are decided? every match should be close because the matchmaking should be evenly matching player skill levels as close as possible"

Your definition for a decided game is completely wrong. A game is not decided in champion select with maybe a few exceptions like trolls and horrible drafts but those shouldn't be counted in this discussion. Players can be equally skilled overall but when the other player gets a lead for what ever reason, it tends to grow into a bigger lead. That's not a problem with matchmaking. It's simply how the game works and how it should work.

Starcraft243verSep 19, 20191 votes

"why the hell are we even having games that are decided? every match should be close because the matchmaking should be evenly matching player skill levels as close as possible"

It's not a players matching skill problem it's both a snowball problem and a human problem.

If we give 15 000 gold to the first player who kills his opponent, the game will end with a 25-0 score even if you are playing against your perfect doppleganger.

That's the problem here, you die, you lose 2 waves, 2 plates, your opponent is 1 000 gold ahead, you wont kill him again if he plays half decent, now he helps his jungler killing yours, and the snowball is already rolling.

Now there's the human problem, the matchmaking can only average your level, but your skill display is not a constant, if you watch the history of your feeding mate you'll probably see he's not playing on his main, or that he has been doing great the other games.

Sometimes you are just tilted, ill, not focused, tired, not on your main, playing against a counter, getting camped ... none of these things can be accounted by the matchmaking. It takes a bit of humility to watch his own replays from one month ago and agree that you'd want to slap yourself in the face for most of the moves you did.

5050BSSep 18, 201913 votes

Because Riot allows

Duos
Smurfs
Does not punish afkers/Trolls/Inters
wont wait for more then 3m to make a game.

SaezioSep 18, 201910 votes

It's not the players. It's the meta. Snowballing is gonna create blowouts.

If this was steady tank meta scale to 3-4 items then teamfight, you can understand why games felt more winnable. Because they were decided much later.

XonraSep 19, 20193 votes

It's both.

When I have a 0/10/1 mid laner vs a 13/2 mid laner it's not JUST the meta. It helps cause you get 1-2 kills and your lane is 100% over, but people don't know how to play these days it feels like.

SaezioSep 19, 20191 votes

How are people supposed to know to play defensively when the game doesn't reward that AT ALL?

Also, I feel like everyone cares a lot less. So, in your example the 13/2 mid might end up being the 0/10 mid next game because they got camped and got frustrated. Explosive gameplay is rewarded tons more than slow and steady.

The thigh guySep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's not the players. It's the meta. Snowballing is gonna create blowouts.

If this was steady tank meta scale to 3-4 items then teamfight, you can understand why games felt more winnable. Because they were decided much later.

Still better than the current meta of games being decided at minute 6

SaezioSep 20, 20191 votes

Depends who you ask imo.

I bet assassin mains prefer this meta.

Tank and ADC mains prefer tank meta I would guess.

I don't play ranked anymore. But I enjoy very much watching pro games. Kinda like a sport. I have to say I enjoyed tank meta more because it felt like more comebacks were possible, and more macro that was intriguing.

I like the snowball/burst meta we got now but it is starting to get a bit old IMO. Would like a new meta to develop sooner rather than later or pro will be boring.

The thigh guySep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Depends who you ask imo.

I bet assassin mains prefer this meta.

Tank and ADC mains prefer tank meta I would guess.

I don't play ranked anymore. But I enjoy very much watching pro games. Kinda like a sport. I have to say I enjoyed tank meta more because it felt like more comebacks were possible, and more macro that was intriguing.

I like the snowball/burst meta we got now but it is starting to get a bit old IMO. Would like a new meta to develop sooner rather than later or pro will be boring.

I hate the current meta almost entirely because it’s just an arms race to see who can 100-0 the other first.

I also preferred the tank meta because it allowed more outplay potential.

Unfortunately with everything but adcs moving at 700ms at all times, and tanks being basically worthless, we are stuck until riot gives tanks an insanely broken item like all the other roles have.

GrenadesAndHammSep 18, 20196 votes

Seems like there is at least one AFK per game these days.

GrenadesAndHammSep 18, 20195 votes

Now at eight straight losses. At least four AFK's on my team in those games. Lanes are being constantly dominated (I'm jungle). Had to mute everyone in the last game because every lane spam pinged me to help them. There was no winning lane to gank, and all their opposing laners were fed.

The KombinatorSep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Now at eight straight losses. At least four AFK's on my team in those games. Lanes are being constantly dominated (I'm jungle). Had to mute everyone in the last game because every lane spam pinged me to help them. There was no winning lane to gank, and all their opposing laners were fed.

Jungler should gank soft losing lanes too you know. Make them turn the tide. It's more valuable on the long run, than ganking a winning lane.

And no losing lane does not mean, that the laner is unskilled. Might not even mean, that he is less skilled, than his opponent. Even challengers lose lane, if they get another challenger with counter champ.

GrenadesAndHammSep 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-09-20T04:44:53.748+0000)

Jungler should gank soft losing lanes too you know. Make them turn the tide. It's more valuable on the long run, than ganking a winning lane.

And no losing lane does not mean, that the laner is unskilled. Might not even mean, that he is less skilled, than his opponent. Even challengers lose lane, if they get another challenger with counter champ.

Not one of the guide from high level (plat/challenger) junglers say what you say. They recommend doing the opposite, in fact.

And at low elo, it's even worse. Even teammates will let me 1v1 or 1v2 their lane, then try to swoop in for the kill.

It's likely you haven't played jungle in low elos. I would say about 10 percent of the time, after I ping and let them know exactly where I'm headed for the gank, will they actually start moving about the same time I do.

About 50 percent of the time they stay put and never move.

About 25 percent of the time, they retreat to tower.

And 15 percent of the time, they wait to watch, then try to steal a kill if I die.

So, no, I'm not ganking losing lanes. Every good jungler says to prioritize winning lanes, and that is what I push.

You DONT push losing lanes. So why do it.

The KombinatorSep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Not one of the guide from high level (plat/challenger) junglers say what you say. They recommend doing the opposite, in fact.

And at low elo, it's even worse. Even teammates will let me 1v1 or 1v2 their lane, then try to swoop in for the kill.

It's likely you haven't played jungle in low elos. I would say about 10 percent of the time, after I ping and let them know exactly where I'm headed for the gank, will they actually start moving about the same time I do.

About 50 percent of the time they stay put and never move.

About 25 percent of the time, they retreat to tower.

And 15 percent of the time, they wait to watch, then try to steal a kill if I die.

So, no, I'm not ganking losing lanes. Every good jungler says to prioritize winning lanes, and that is what I push.

You DONT push losing lanes. So why do it.

Challenger elo can play mostly safe, but i can assure you, that on my worst games the jungler made every lane won. We win botlane good, then 3 ganks in 4 minutes, and it's kinda over. Either we forced to go home, and enemy gets ahead with plates, or we die.

Also which one is easier to gank? The guy standing at enemy turret, and has a loong route to safety, or the guy standing at friendly turret, and you MUST dive, if you want something? Sure on higher level diving is not a problem, but in lane phase it's rarely end well. Unless you get a roamer too, and you go into 4v2, or 3v1.

Kai GuySep 19, 20194 votes

How often in your blowouts did some one give the fuck up. I lose a lot of really frustratingly 1 sided games cuz 1-2 teammates "GG FF NEXT" Its not a fucking battle royal. Play the dam game. Oh no top died 2 times cuz he burned flash and got ganked. Deal with it. 2 deaths is nothing. Look at comps, use your brain. Do you trust your skill or not.

Same for wins. Look for the fucking idiot on their team that rolled over. Your at their hibitor and some ones farming jungle or splitting a lane? That asshat gave up ages ago.

Game is not fun if people don't play. So tired of the weak mentality folks who roll over. Sucks the joy out of the game. This is what season 1 was like when people AFKED because they thought it was GG. This is what dota allstars in WC3 was like when some one pub stomped or had a bad lane.

Inherent issue with Mobas.

LauchmelderSep 19, 20192 votes

Fucking preach.

The amount of people that go "ff15, go next" because their lane had a bad start is insane. I don't know what happened, but these coinflip players who have the "strategy" of "I'll get a lead in the first few minutes or die trying resulting in me giving up on the game" has increased by a ton.

Kai GuySep 19, 20191 votes

Some times its Because they buy into this BS that everybody in your MMR is a lemon and you have to hard carry. So if they do bad its GG, why bother playing?

Garbage mentality.

Or its cuz

FORCED 50% BOO HOO RITO WANTS ME TO LOSE! So... they roll over and give up which fucks their team the same way an AFK would. Like there is an infinite # of folks in the Que for MM to use to build games. On paper fair matches do not exist at ever single second every single day... wish folks would realize that. 1 lane lost? That's GG? Then just admit your shit and your rating is higher then your skill. If you need literally every single one of your teammates to do well for you to win your games? That's on you, cuz those cats aint gonna be in your next games with any reliability. 1 role lost? breaks even if 1 allie or you do well. Shouldn't be breaking your games back.

If you seen me befor on the boards, well there is a reason I pop up and cram math about Elo and MMR down peoples faces. Distribution of toxic behaviors in a MMR range, even at 10%? is an insane value. 10% is 1 in 10. A game of league has 10 players. 1 in 10 thus shows up almost every god dam game.

Why I chime in is cuz I don't get to have fun if to many players are doofus who rage quit in the first 5 min. Using the excuse games are decided in 5 min to justify behaviors that then decided games is awfully convenient self fulfilling bullshit. I'm not some Samaritan, I enjoy mobas and the gameplay, I care because I only stand to gain when people make an effort to play the game.

Cuz wins from a quitter suck. Losses from quitters suck. The solution to fix this far as I can see is to lower # of + reforming/removing said quitters.

Some cats man, just don't get it. Everybody knows its easier to play to lose then to play to win. If you did bad then wanna make it look like you did bad because you decided to "troll" I don't buy it. You got your ass handed to you, own it, grow, move on. Pretending that its cuz you wanted a loss is stupid when you have spent a portion of the game flaming folks then after getting a few deaths pull a 180 to claim you wanted to lose anyhow. Wish riot was harsher to the folks who greif teammates.

Why people forget that PvP games are driven by Players is beyond me. Should be self evident. Its in the name. Player vs Player. That's what gameplay is.Some folks just need to stick to solo PvE games.

KarunamonSep 19, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-09-19T00:07:23.252+0000)

Fucking preach.

The amount of people that go "ff15, go next" because their lane had a bad start is insane. I don't know what happened, but these coinflip players who have the "strategy" of "I'll get a lead in the first few minutes or die trying resulting in me giving up on the game" has increased by a ton.

It's people understanding the reality.

Comebacks are rare (shit matchmaking, game design, whatever, the reasons aren't what I'm talking about)
Playtime is limited, average game length is half an hour.

Combine those two things, and you get:

3) With a 50%WR, playing more games is better for your stats.

Two games that aren't even by 15, FF@15'd, allow you to play another game for free. You play 100 games, that's about 50 hours of league, 25 hours winning, 25 hours losing. If you get out of even 10 of those lost games at 15 minutes, you get to play another 5 games in that same 50 hours. Extend this rule over a long enough time period, and you'll have more won games.

You want to blame anyone, blame Riot for letting it degenerate this far. People who want out of lost games quickly are doing the most logical thing. Not only are comebacks rare, getting roflstomped for half an hour isn't fun. One comeback doesn't undo ten stomps.

LauchmelderSep 19, 20191 votes

Trust me, the reality is that most games where this happens are far from over but the people who want to give up force it to be over.

GonahtanuGepardiSep 19, 20192 votes

Extend this rule over a long enough time period, and you'll have more won games.

Yes, you have played more games in the same (meaning also more wins) time but your total win rate is actually lower because you give up games that you could have won.

Comebacks are rare

No they aren't, they are very common.

One comeback doesn't undo ten stomps.

No but it makes you climb more since it will increase your amount of wins per losses. Most games that you think are lost, are not lost. You are the kind of player that doesn't actually know when the game is lost. As an example, i do surrender games that are clearly lost but if my team doesn't want to surrender, i do my best. However, games that are clearly lost are EXTREMELY rare and that's why the way you talk shows you don't actually know when the game is lost. You are just a quitter. It's a pathetic way of looking at the game.

Crescent DuskSep 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-09-19T00:07:23.252+0000)

Fucking preach.

The amount of people that go "ff15, go next" because their lane had a bad start is insane. I don't know what happened, but these coinflip players who have the "strategy" of "I'll get a lead in the first few minutes or die trying resulting in me giving up on the game" has increased by a ton.

If I as a jg see my bot lane has given the enemy ADC 7 kills by 9 minutes, and my mid lane is afk farming overextending and getting ganked 24/7 while I try to keep top and bot lane afloat, I know the game is over by 15 unless there's a kayle/jax/yi in my comp and they haven't fed their asses off.

People ff for a reason. Nobody likes the uphill climb against a fed caitlyn+yuumi, a fed Jax, let alone a fed Irelia or mordekaiser/renekton.

LauchmelderSep 19, 20192 votes

Can people stop exaggerating situations just to prove their point?

Games like this are lost but completely miss the actual problem: Coinflip players who give up if they lose their coinflip. You went hyperaggressive at level 2 and lost the cheese which put you behind and you might even have lost yourself the lane. There's 2 other lanes and a jungler who didn't fuck themselves, make yourself carryable instead of bitching "boo hoo, I can't carry this game, game is lost".

THAT'S the FF15 people, not the ones in this constant "if my x feeds 10 kills in 12 minutes" scenario.

Crescent DuskSep 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=0008000000020000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:34:28.608+0000)

Can people stop exaggerating situations just to prove their point?

Games like this are lost but completely miss the actual problem: Coinflip players who give up if they lose their coinflip. You went hyperaggressive at level 2 and lost the cheese which put you behind and you might even have lost yourself the lane. There's 2 other lanes and a jungler who didn't fuck themselves, make yourself carryable instead of bitching "boo hoo, I can't carry this game, game is lost".

THAT'S the FF15 people, not the ones in this constant "if my x feeds 10 kills in 12 minutes" scenario.

Except, not really. I never would FF over a single losing lane, and doubt most others would. What people resent is when someone actually makes themselves absolutely unable to be carried and then have the nerve to veto the FF vote and prolong a game with a foregone conclusion. It's a waste of time and people are right to be upset.

LauchmelderSep 21, 20191 votes

Yea you wouldn't because you're not one of those trash coinflip players.

Most of the time it's not even the feeder that vetos the surrender vote but the guy who plays a lategame carry and who won his lane hard.

MihalikbSep 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-09-19T00:01:39.497+0000)

How often in your blowouts did some one give the fuck up. I lose a lot of really frustratingly 1 sided games cuz 1-2 teammates "GG FF NEXT" Its not a fucking battle royal. Play the dam game. Oh no top died 2 times cuz he burned flash and got ganked. Deal with it. 2 deaths is nothing. Look at comps, use your brain. Do you trust your skill or not.

Same for wins. Look for the fucking idiot on their team that rolled over. Your at their hibitor and some ones farming jungle or splitting a lane? That asshat gave up ages ago.

Game is not fun if people don't play. So tired of the weak mentality folks who roll over. Sucks the joy out of the game. This is what season 1 was like when people AFKED because they thought it was GG. This is what dota allstars in WC3 was like when some one pub stomped or had a bad lane.

Inherent issue with Mobas.

The thing is...there are games that can't be won. When you are 15k gold behind, lost 2 inhibs, 4 drakes, herald and 2 barons, your ADC is 2/7 and the enemy ADC is 14/2 all items completed or have a 23/1 Yi, there is nothing you can realistically do but get KDA farmed, which really feels bad, especially if YOU won your lane, didn't feed etc.

Then you see the guy on your team you mentioned farming jungle farming while you are trying to 3v5 defend your last inhib or contest 3rd Baron.

Not FFing at that point, is just literally trolling your own team. Combine the futility of the situation with the fact that short of afking you are stuck in it, adds immensely to the toxicity of people.

Kai GuySep 20, 20191 votes

I have a simple rule. I aim to vote last for FF and go with the majority. I don't wish to be misleading as situationally I will use my personal judgment to break this rule from time to time.

Again as clearly as I can possibly make this point. My beef is that so many games are being shoved into unwinnable/unlosable states because some dumbass gives up well before the game is decided. Rolling over and trying to evade an AFK ban sucks out fun, its trash behavior regardless of what team its on. Its not at all difficult to identify, especially if you make effort to communicate positively.

Its just the modern day rage quit. Folks don't want to lose their shit so they try to evade automated systems but are behaving with no competitive intent. Games are not decided by a 2 kill gap, or FB, If you demand every ally has to outperform all their counterparts always your an idiot.

Its really easy to say GG ITS OVER, then go and do nothing but behave in a way to ensure your right and your team loses. Could just afk and accomplish the same end result. Hell id rather they afk cuz some times that's preferable to the teammate who will split and die over and over or spend all game stealing cs or camps and flame teammates.

Team game. Act like it. Lose lane? Boo hoo. Lose lane with grace and your teams less fucked, you have the opportunity to show personal skill by mitigating the damage. Play to avoid bleeding out gold, communicate the issue.

I'm not trying to claim "you can win any game!" Yea... you can on paper (4/5 opponents could DC or leave. enemy might FF for no reason. Possible but not probable.) End of the day the probability at some points in games for a win is so small its basically non existent. What I'm saying is there are far to many games that would be fairly close if this bullshit attitude I see so often just stops. Play to win, be realistic in expectations. Its a simple concept.

If you need 100% of your teammates to be strong for you to win? Your the issue cuz your teammates gonna be Different folks every game. Own it, aim to improve.

Any one can pretend a loss is cuz they wanted to lose. get stomped for 4 kills then run it down for 19 more cuz LUL I WANNA LOSS FK THIS GARBAGE TEAM. That's something I have seen, I don't think its uncommon for any long time player to not be familiar with this event. Any one can make a game slide farther towards loss if they wanted to. Its very easy to play to lose cuz that's not what the point of a competition is. Any one that cant be consistently competitive should stay away from PvP games. Like far as i know the highest scoring game of pro soccer was a team that got tilted over refs so they spent an entire match scoring on themselves resulting in a record 149–0 game.

Playing to lose is easy. The # of folks that do this currently in league is obnoxious. teammates that do it suck away fun. Opponents that do it suck away fun.

TLDR. I am not saying you can win every game. Just that there are to many idiots who give up and play to lose for bullshit reasons that are generating way to many one sided games and I really would like that to stop.

Darkdemon653Sep 18, 20193 votes

The game has always snowballed extremely hard, ans seasons 8 and 9 have had the most extreme snowballing.

XonraSep 19, 20191 votes

No it hasn't. They even had full on comeback and rubberband mechanics in previous seasons. This year they just gave up and went full snowball.

Nea104Sep 18, 20192 votes

Their matchmaking has been "flawed" for years now.

Ask why they've never "fixed" it ;)

AnateraSep 19, 20192 votes

Because it's absolute garbage.

Niggel WessomSep 19, 20192 votes

Silver players have a tendency to give up v early on and I think its rlly annoying. I think it has to do with streamers that play in high elo saying that games snowball too hard with no opportunity to come back gives players in my rank an excuse to complain about being unable to climb and win games. This excuse has made matchmaking worse because now a silver player who obv is not the best at the game is not trying bc the "game is over" when the reality is that there will be many mistakes made by the enemy team that will make games winnable at lower elos like iron bronze and silver. I dont think games are as unwinnable as people say they are, but soft inting and giving up are definitely more common and my hypothesis is that it has become a self fulfilling problem at low elo, even though the game's matchmaking is actually unbalanced at high elo. Hope that makes sense, just a hypothesis based on my observations.

The KombinatorSep 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:27:46.737+0000)

Silver players have a tendency to give up v early on and I think its rlly annoying. I think it has to do with streamers that play in high elo saying that games snowball too hard with no opportunity to come back gives players in my rank an excuse to complain about being unable to climb and win games. This excuse has made matchmaking worse because now a silver player who obv is not the best at the game is not trying bc the "game is over" when the reality is that there will be many mistakes made by the enemy team that will make games winnable at lower elos like iron bronze and silver. I dont think games are as unwinnable as people say they are, but soft inting and giving up are definitely more common and my hypothesis is that it has become a self fulfilling problem at low elo, even though the game's matchmaking is actually unbalanced at high elo. Hope that makes sense, just a hypothesis based on my observations.

To be honest gold1, gold2 is the other side. They refuse the give up even if it's over. Enemy has 9 more turrets, inhib, every single dragon, +20 kills, and the team without infinite stacker still thinks, that we can win. We can't, and refusing the facts won't change them. Most games are clear by 20. minutes, and the winning side needs to do tons of throwing to lose. At gold2 these mega throwings are rare.

In current meta only infinite stackers has any hope to turn the tide in lategame.

Niggel WessomSep 20, 20191 votes

That may well be the case I just have never played as a gold player so I'm talking specifically about stuff that I've encountered in my elo and stuff. I would always favor playing a game out with 5 ppl trying than ff though bc anyone can make mistakes and if you can catch just one and punish you can turn the tide of the game. But I see why you might feel frustrated

overpoweredscrubSep 19, 20192 votes

Agreed. So many one sided games. Sometimes games can be close but like you said, it's very rare. It's usually one side just stomping the other so if you are on the losing team, your team surrenders. If you are on the winning team, they surrender and the game is over. It sucks if you play nasus because you farmed for 10-20 minutes on your q playing safe and not getting to test out your power, then you finally 1v1 and destroy the aggressive lane opponent and then they automatically surrender because now you are ahead as nasus.

GrenadesAndHammSep 19, 20191 votes

People die a few times and suddenly dont want to play anymore. Giving up needs to be reportable. But it seems far more important to sanction people that call them out in game without name calling or using profanity. Giving up and just walking around the map or hiding under tower doing nothing is apparently not a violation, which is frustrating.

I can be fed as a split pusher and solo several towers and people will hide near base and not help. Run from team fights mid when I'm constantly 1v2 or 1v3 split pushing.

I dont understand why it is so hard for the rest of my team to fight 4v3 when I'm 1v2 and actually pushing.

I'll have both top and bot pushed all the way to the inhibitor and mid lane will lose the inhibitor and suddenly we are voting 4/1 for surrender.

Unstoppable MonkSep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Giving up needs to be reportable.

It shouldn't ever be reportable as long as two 30% WR people are forced into games above their own elo. It is literally more effective to quit than commit to play a 50 minute game that people are guaranteed to throw anyway. The only reason for sticking to a guaranteed drawn out losing game is a person who cannot win for themselves and must always get carried every game.