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Twisted Treeline: The Deadly Jungle

Blanck··88 votes·7,232 views

Hello,

I'm Blanck, a challenger Twisted Treeline AP player currently holding the #21 challenger spot. Since the introduction of the new map in 2012, there has been disparity between the main 3v3 regions, with NA generally preferring 2 solo laners and a jungler, and EU generally preferring a support/bruiser or support/adc and a solo laner. The recent jungle changes however, have axed the jungle strategy. The camps are so difficult to kill now that the jungler is forced to go back to base to heal some time before the 3:00 mark. The problem is that both altars spawn at 3:00 minutes, which are comparable to an early dragon.

As far as I can tell, out of the top 25 teams in NA, only 1 is finding any success in the current patch with the jungle meta. The team is forced to use very risky, high-reward strategies that usually decide the game in the first 5 minutes, or else be widdled down by the high pressure duo lane and scaling ADC. For clarity, we'll call the support team the Blue team and the jungle team the Red team.

Most early games start out with the Blue duo lane shoving a lane into the tower, denying an early level advantage for the Red solo laner. The support then roams immediately into the enemy jungle. At this point the Red jungler is 99% of the time still level 1, half health, and finishing his 2nd camp. With no wards on Twisted Treeline, the Red bottom laner simultaneously loses vision of the support and has to back away from the creep wave, losing experience due to the longer lane and is generally level 1. The support can then either pressure the jungler and deny his 2nd camp / lvl 2, or roam with the ADC to gank bottom lane. By the 3:00 minute mark, the altar can seem incontestable for the Red team. Adaptations to strategy are quickly countered by the flexibility of the support team, especially with no way around the deadly jungle monsters.

Junglers on Twisted Treeline desperately need help clearing these camps quicker, staying healthier during clears, or both.

I'm open to questions for those who do not understand the map or are curious about the fast-paced games.

Edit: For those interested in learning 3s, I recommend checking out Yasloom's 3v3 site or the Twisted Treeline Subreddit for general information.

My jungler also streams most of our games if you want to see some high elo action http://www.twitch.tv/itonicc)

49 Comments

HeWolf16 votes

It seems very meta-restricting the new jungle, and I really hope this fixes soon. I don't usually play in TTT, but I've played some games and I really respect people who play it (because shorter games+smaller teams+smaller map = less forgiving game).

Also, I feel your pain because this is not a gamemode that attracts a lot of attention and the changes may be really slow and almost outdated. Keep it cool and don't give up!

Blanck9 votes

Thanks for posting. I appreciate the support!

Penguin Eclipse10 votes

"Junglers on Twisted Treeline desperately need help clearing these camps quicker, staying healthier during clears, or both."

I would say both. Granted I can't speak for the challenger level, but junglers really seem to struggle on Twisted. And by struggle I mean it seems like most of the comps involving a jungler are no longer worth taking.

Even games where the teams with junglers win, it seems the jungler is considerably further behind his/her peers unless the game is one of those landslide victories.

iToNiC4 votes

Being a jungle myself I don't find I'm behind in anyway if we still end up winning. I guess it would depend on what champion the jungle is playing and if hes getting kills throughout the game. I find the only trouble I have and cannot avoid is the early game clear (Pre 6). We tend to force fights to try to gain that gold advantage for the team. Also the top laner usuallly shoves lane hard and helps clear the enemy's jungle with me. Without a doubt there needs to be a balance throughout 3s. With all the gold nerfs to jungle items and buffing the dmg on the camps and now the smite bug not ever working anymore, the jungle meta is slowly becoming unplayable.

FarRockBF5 votes

I made the same exact thread months ago but got less than 10 upvotes cause not Diamond

##BronzeLife

God In A Condom4 votes

100% agree jungle needs a nerf to make it easy to clear out mostly against support meta other wise its just gg

Budupops4 votes

first time seeing twisted tree line on the front page

Philbo Baggins2 votes

I would love to ask some questions :3

What do you think of playing duo+solo lane but with champions that can easily pick up jungle camps like Pantheon Fiddlesticks Malzahar ? Is that a good compromise, using the jungle as an easily picked backup source of gold?

Blanck6 votes

It's fairly common for a duo lane to take jungle camps when it's unsafe to push a lane or when extra gold is needed. One thing to be careful of is that although you may be able to clear camps at a decent rate, you're still sharing farm in lane! Make sure your strategy allows both laners to obtain enough gold, whether it be by using a support item or some other method.

iToNiC7 votes

The only issue I see here is the fiddlesticks pick. While he can farm camps fairly safely, he can't shove lane that well and will result in to him being under tower and having a loss of vision/ ability to rotate to help his team. Being able to have pressure in 3s let alone the jungle meta is huge.

Father Cthulhu2 votes

So can you walk me through on exactly how the first clear works with whichever jungler you use, and the item purchases? It'd be helpful on forming an opinion.

Blanck5 votes

Keep in mind that players start with 825g on Twisted Treeline, with the option to wait for an additional 10-15g after minions spawn. Junglers tend to start with machete+long sword+2 potions / machete+dorans blade or in some rare cases machete+cloth armor.

Generally the first camp is either soft leashed by the bottom lane mage, cleared together with the top laner, or both.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

Keep in mind that players start with 825g on Twisted Treeline, with the option to wait for an additional 10-15g after minions spawn. Junglers tend to start with machete+long sword+2 potions / machete+dorans blade or in some rare cases machete+cloth armor.

Generally the first camp is either soft leashed by the bottom lane mage, cleared together with the top laner, or both.

I tried Jungling a few times in TT before. Ever sense the upgrade increase, I have tried staying topped up in health starting with Machette, and a crystaline flask.

What Kind of Junglers would you recommend? I know Cinder hulk is a bit OP right now, but I figured TT would be too short for it to scale. would you recommend Stalkers' or skirmishers?

The other thought I had based on top lane SR is to just have an Off Jungler, who has smite, and could Jungle/counter Jungle, when their lane is pushed.

iToNiC6 votes

Hey Erockandroll! I'm the jungler for Blancks Challenger team. Typically on ad jungles (Lee, J4, Hec, Vi) I typically start madreds razers due to the clear being way better than machete long sword 1 pot. You can start with razers and have 2 pots so you will actually for the most part be healthy when looking to roam/ make a gank at level 2.

When I jungle ap (which my main jungle is nidalee) I start dorans ring machete and 1 pot. This is where this where we have been finding trouble lately with the smite bug not ever resetting to 15s. When running jungle meta into support meta. Our top laner and I start golems together smite the big and clear the small camp first. Usually by the time we finish the camp they have shoved him into turret and I've started the wraith camp. Once again focus everything on the small camps and if their support has tried to annoy and disrupt you in the jungle try to jungle the wraith camp from attacking you to them. It wastes their time and it won't totally hurt you. If they are not invading then just clear the camp as fast as possible. While playing nidalee almost always have to back after wraith camp to buy pots at level 2. Generally 30 seconds before altar spawns just because you need to be ready to fight for your altar. Losing first altar isn't huge but it does basically make you lose vision and control of your side of the map.

We are going to be testing double cinderhulk/ double jungle item tonight on our team. Where the top laner and jungle will both build the jungle items to see how it helps with the early clear. Cinderhulk has great scaling, so on paper it should work well. Also if the jungler is able to hold smite and have the laner smite the golems then you are able to smite the wraith camp and gain some health back, which could potentially make it so you will not have to back at level 2.

Sorry for the wall of text! Let me know if you have any questions or if there are any parts that are unclear.

We tend to stream this games everynight twitch.tv/itonicc/ come drop by if you would like to see some jungle 3s or hear our thoughts.

Philbo Baggins2 votes

What do you think of my team comp hybrid Kayle Pantheon (duo) and Malzahar ?

Early on any of them can pick up jungle creeps (kayle just needs stinger). You cannot stack resistances one way or the other to cancel out their damage. Kayle with runaans shreds resistances beautifully. Each one has at least one CC (kayle soft, malz hard AND soft, panth hard) as well as additional utility: panth has map presence, malz can tank towers with minions alone, and kayle can provide invuln + speed/heals.

Blanck4 votes

I think those champions synergize well enough, like I said just make sure you have a way to get enough gold on the duo laners!

CollectiveFury2 votes

YES the jungle on TT is completely terribad right now. If a team went duo bot lane, you lose the game.

Philbo Baggins2 votes

{quoted}

It's fairly common for a duo lane to take jungle camps when it's unsafe to push a lane or when extra gold is needed. One thing to be careful of is that although you may be able to clear camps at a decent rate, you're still sharing farm in lane! Make sure your strategy allows both laners to obtain enough gold, whether it be by using a support item or some other method.

Thanks for the feedback Blanck! My team is full of fresh players, other than me, and we are fighting through the bronze struggle so every bit of help counts. :)

Aside from bugging you for tips, are there any sources you would recommend reading/watching/etc... to learn how to play TT more competitively? What has worked for you to get better?

Blanck5 votes

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post this here, but my team's jungler streams pretty consistently: (http://www.twitch.tv/itonicc) We're generally up against anywhere from Plat-Challenger level teams depending on the team we're playing on.

Although it hasn't been updated in a while. (http://lol3v3.net/) is a pretty good resource for learning the map. Lots of guides and videos to get you started.

I've been playing 3s since 2010, and I wasn't very good back then. It took a lot of practice to get where I am now, and there are still a lot of players better than me! Just keep playing and don't get discouraged.

iToNiC3 votes

I'm the jungler that streams for Blanck's team! But I usually recommend people going to the Lol Twisted Treeline Subreddit. Many people post tierlists/tip videos/ and just general good discussion.

Shïren2 votes

Im a 3v3 main myself and ive been trying to find a few people to get into ranked 3s and I fully agree with what you say here as I main jungle and I always feel way behind unless im able to secure a few kills for myself early on. 3v3 needs help entirely but riot doesnt care about it.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

+ the problem that it still needs more than one Camp to get to lvl 2...there´s not even a proper xp reward for fighting to the death with the jungle (though it makes you feel warm at heart as you remember the time when you had to flash away as WW from the Ghost in old TTT, deadliest monster ever).

...the jungle had been mostly fine back when the first machete upgrade had been available for starting money and you could start with 2 smites from the get go - so i guess making the upgrade/dublesmite accessable from the very start in TTT once again would be a good solution till they figure a better way and give TTT the overhaul it deserves (turrets still fall too damn quick and missing basegates make it just too easy to snowball the map from the slightest mistake and deny the opponents completly in an even match).

Renaille2 votes

Ironically enough. Whenever I rank up a new team, all the teams up through gold run a jungler and we generally stomp them. Jungling really needs to be sorted out to be more viable.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

well, jungler is easier to play if your coordination isn´t that good and you lack a general gameplan..so it´s ok to have it in lower elos.

Maliginant1 votes

I'll admit it is wierd how even when no one wants to jungle people will still insist that the j4/w/e go jungle just to maximize xp gain.

GodofMountainDew2 votes

I'm interested to hear your feedback on this... (take it with a grain of salt though, since my 3's teams are currently only gold II/silver I after crawling up through bronze.)

We almost never have an issue with duo lanes and always run a jungler. I'll admit the early pressure can sometimes be difficult if the enemy invades, but so long as we have a champ that can excel in a 2v1 bottom, like Cho or Morgana who can waveclear and stay safe, when the early game ends we completely out-scale them. Many games we end up with about 25% or more gold than non-jungle teams.

As far as the jungle goes, I would honestly love to see a reduction in price of the upgraded jungle items so that a jungler could start with one, and even perhaps a pot. Many champs just flat out cannot do 3 camps and be able to contest the shrines.

Blanck3 votes

Generally a duo lane is seen top lane in higher elo. The issue at hand is generally the pressure put on the jungler. Supports will deny or stall the enemy jungler's level 2 and then take both altars. Altars give bonus gold and make the ADC scale extremely hard. It's the ADCs scaling that makes up for the later game.

Sire Hippington2 votes

and that all mostly because of the jungl-item cost increase that was targeted at Summoners Rift... Befor that change, you could start with an upgraded smite, now you lack 25gold to do so. A change as simple as increaseing starting gold by 25 or reduceing the simte-upgrade cost on TT by 25 would already help alot(not saying TT couldn't use more afjustments though)

Captain Volibear1 votes

It is common to wait on gold for an extra potion. Couldn't you do this for smite upgrade, or would you not make it in time?

Also, what about the other jungle item, not machete? Its price hasn't been raised. Do junglers that benefit from it find their first clear better? You can get machete with it after.

Sire Hippington1 votes

madrets helps to clear, but it doesn't scale well into the late and is only good for AA-reliant junglers like Aatrox or Nocturn.

Takeing it is a huge gamble, if you do't manage to snowball within ~5 min, it usually backfires, and you are still vulnerable in the jungle as it doesn't offer that much sustain, but good clearspeed.

waiting for the 25 g usually delays long enough for the enemie team to take the wolf camp, haveing one camp less sets you back alot in the early+they will still be able to reach lvl 2 befor you cause of the delay.

PapaGreg211 votes

[deleted]

Maximum Zilean2 votes

{quoted}

I am bronze 4 but my friend and I need a third for a treeline team if you are interested. I can't say we can get to challenger together, but I can definitely say that you will have a constant janna shield so you can do your thing for 20 minutes.

Wrong section...

PapaGreg211 votes

[deleted]

Father Cthulhu1 votes

No. What he's saying is that if you're looking for members, go to the recruitment sections of the boards instead of asking here.

Blanck4 votes

Feel free to add me! I don't think I'll be playing too many bronze games, but I'll answer any questions you have about 3v3s!

Angry Monster1 votes

Considering they had to nerf the base damages of SR for jungle camps, then should look to do the same in TT.

Paress1 votes

I miss the old TT since it had an awesome jungle, balanced (WARDING) and juke potentials.

Dengeden1 votes

I'm confused, how does pushing the wave into the tower deny EXP? If the minions die near you, what's to stop you from leveling up?

Regardless, if the Red solo lanes get denied anyway, can't they help out the jungler and/or start a camp (together)?

Earl Eulrich2 votes

commonly you clear two waves before you are both lvl 2 and you are exactly pushed to the opponent jungle-entrance. WHile you do this the opponent Sololaner is forced to stand away for the most time as he would die 1v2 otherwise if you don`t pick a horrible duolane. That means you´ll be invading lvl 2 vs a lvl 1 Sololane + a lvl 1-2 half hp jungle at ~2:35. You can do that every game and start of with 2:0 altars currently if you play Duolane vs Jungle, as the jungler/Sololane can´t really fight back that early.

Blanck2 votes

I was referring to the xp advantage that a Red solo laner normally gets vs a duo lane. The Red solo laner can and usually does get this xp advantage around level 3, but is underleveled or even before then.

Let me reiterate that it is very important for the Red top laner to stay under his tower and try to make the best of the inevitable level advantage. Most times it is the only advantage the jungle team has.

This level advantage and coordination within the Red side jungle ties in with the high-risk, high-reward strategy I was talking about with high elo jungle teams.

Newb the Legend1 votes

Question: For a jungler on Twisted Treeline, I usually can clear all the camps and then left with the two lanes which are pushed up to the enemy tower, what should I do? I don't wanna fight the enemy jungler because they usually have a better early game than I and I would most likely get killed.

Freljordan1 votes

Hi, I'm a TT fan here though I haven't played as much on that map recently. I'm curious, who would you say are some top tier picks right now as far as ap laners are concerned? I've really enjoyed playing ap laners on TT in the past and I was just wondering what your challenger insight on that topic is?

Blanck2 votes

My personal preferences right now are Ahri, Morgana, Viktor, and Gragas.

Cho'gath, Lissandra, Annie, and Nidalee are also very good.

Reikken1 votes

This described scenario is exactly what happened in my last two ranked games, my team being "red". I don't know how to deal with it.

Ill Darkistino1 votes

Hey, I am a hard ADC main (plays the same role in nearly every game) and thus have skill only with auto-attack champions. I would like to be better at Twisted Treeline, can you suggest any role/position/champion combinations that are a good place to start?

Thank you!

Sire Hippington2 votes

dulane with leona/braum, pick corki/graves/lucian. In certain matchups Vayne is pretty massive aswell

Aura Blackquill1 votes

Rito pls.

Zeke Maelstorm1 votes

Now I may be a little late to the discussion but I have few ideas that may solve the problem.

  • Reintroducing the spirit items has it helps the junglers survive.
  • Moving the smite bonus which restores health to Wolves from Wraiths so junglers can gank faster.
  • Nerfing gold generation items (direct nerf to the supports and there income).
  • Nerfing ADC itemization (Increasing costs).

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