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I...I just dont know anymore

theonegoku··36 votes·2,994 views

So I was about to hit 100 points yesterday and get a chance for promotion (yay!). I actually ended up losing the match, no big deal, and the next one. I blamed my skills and tried to work back up. So after a few afks, I was back down to 13 points and decided to call it a day. So I get on this morning and figure its a new day, lets do this. In the first game our mid couldnt move due to lag. So we lost quickly and I was down to 0. Shake it off, start the second game, and we have no bot lane. Jinx and lulu are afk and we get destroyed. They are finally able to connect right towards the end after our inhib is destroyed and said the server wouldnt let them on. So to my suprise, I get demoted...thats just great, excitement to dissappoint so quickly (Now I know how all the Rito employees' wives feel). So with my head down I figure hell, its a lower rank, I should be able to bounce back against worse players, so I queue up...cant type in chat...dont know if that came with the demotion or what...but im last pick and watching what our team comp is..and oh wow...three junglers...I guess im in ELO hell now...

TL;DR can we get some sort of human element to review this kind of stuff instead of "oh he lost, he must suck, lets keep demoting him"?

/rant

39 Comments

N00BC8K311 votes

That's the problem with a ranking system that goes based off of Wins and losses instead of individual player skill.

SecretAgentHulk6 votes

How do you go off player skill without permanently putting supports in Cardboard IV?

Cerbearus12 votes

The only way to measure individual player skill is wins and losses...

Looking at KDA biases towards carries, and I can get an amazing KDA but do nothing to help my team win. Damage dealt? Biased towards harass champions and tanks would never be picked. Damage taken? Just die a lot.

A Rioter isn't going to watch each individual match and determine who deserves to win.

It may seem like it sucks sometimes, but statistically (assuming you don't leave games) the enemy team is more likely to have an AFK than yours.

Duchess of Deer1 votes

i actually made a post on this it got downvoted because people didn't think it would work you can take a look for yourself

What Is Smite3 votes

Incorrect actually, the chances of having a troll in one of your games is 9/10 (9/10 ia used because you don't know if those players are planning to troll the game) for every slot that is available in the game which you do not take up meaning the 11% chance is upped to about 40% to have a troll in one game of League, then if you add in the variable of human emotions then the chance of having a troll in any game of league jumps from 40% to anywhere between 60-90% because people tend to let their emotions roam free on the internet without having any decency towards other human beings

Cerbearus2 votes

No idea what you are talking about. I said if there is a troll in your game, it is ore likely to be on the enemy team than yours.

4/9 vs 5/9 chance.

What Is Smite3 votes

I believe it was somewhere in trig that they teach you that out of a deck of 52 cards you have a 1 in 52 chance to pull a certain card and if you place the card back in the deck then the odds remain as 1/52 but the odds of picking one of the other 51 cards is 51/52 so what I am saying is that for each slot in a game that you or your friends do not occupy there is an equal chance that a troller fills those vacant slots. Multiply the odds of getting a troll for each vacant slot by itself and you will get the actual percentage that a troll may take one of the vacant slot in the game, then add ontop of that the randomness of the team balancer mechanic in any match-making mode and then you find that each team has equal odds of getting the "troll" player on their team

NinjaFifer1 votes

You speak a whole lot of stuff about things that don't matter. The point is that you are not a troll/AFK. Therefore, you can guarantee that your slot on your team is not going to be a troll/AFK. That leaves only 4 slots on your team that can be trolls/AFKs, but 5 slots on their team that can be trolls/AFKs. There's no trig to be done here. Hell, there's no calculus to be done here either.

Hawkefire6 votes

However, one thing CAN be factored in for winning/losing.

Riot is capable of determining (and if they aren't they damn well should figure out how to) whether or not someone is afk during a match.

It is quite simple, if someone goes AFK, every other player on the team gets loss forgiven, and the person that afked gets deducted twice as many points as they would have, and of course there would be a set amount of "charges" that a person gets before they suffer from this penalty (For example, you can afk 1 match and receive no penalty, and that burns 1 charge, and you don't get that charge back for 3 days up to a maximum of 3 charges, numbers are simply placeholders as I am simply spit-balling ideas here.)

And don't give me the bullshit excuse of it being abused, there are ways to MITIGATE most of the damage that abuse cases can cause such as:

Duoing (1 afks):

The partner loses normal LP from the game.

Duoing (both afk):.....no change from the above, both incur a double LP loss.

Ranked Teams: Not placed into effect for ranked teams (ranked teams work as they do now on live)

There.

All the largest abuse cases have been solved, however that does leave 2 key abuse cases:

Making separate accounts to go into ranked and AFK with (basically, make an account, level it to 30, then play ranked, then afk because you don't actually care about the account).

How is this solved? First and foremost, the likelyhood of someone going through all the trouble to get another account to level 30 (without botting their way there) just to perform this is quite low. Coupled with the fact that them going afk often would still flag them for leaverbuster and would still eventually get them banned, that I personally don't find this to be a big issue.

Peer pressuring a guy to afk (ex: take one for the team man I don't wanna lose mah lp!)

How to solve this? You don't. The odds of someone actually "taking one for the team" with a bunch of random strangers that they have never met is not very likely (yes, their are exceptions). Thus the amount of people ACTUALLY doing this would be quite small, thus making its impact insignificant (it might actually become significant at very high elo where there are significantly less players per rank and as such you could simply have it disabled for challenger/master tier, however I feel this would be unnecessary until it proves to actually be a problem)

Sightless661 votes

individual player skill.

You have a better way to measure this? Because as I see it, each individual stat varies immensely with each champion, and there are some things you just can't capture with numerical stats. However, they all lead into whether you win more often than you lose, so that's a pretty good amalgamation stat to judge on.

It Hertz When IP11 votes

Except that DC's are a serious and continuous problem.

CheckMyDoubles2 votes

And are now punished harsher than ever with the LeaverBuster system. They won't get to do it too often before it catches up with them.

Xenohaz6 votes

The problem is, the DC being punished after the game doesn't do anything to actually help the other 4 (or 9, if the enemy team cares about a fair fight) players who just got screwed by them.

disregardable6 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcep3XfHi8k

you may want to watch that.

ZenxRush1 votes

Awesome. Thanks for posting this.

CheckMyDoubles3 votes

There is no such thing as ELO Hell.

If there was then how do players get to Platinum, Diamond and Challenger ranks? Are they just luckier than you?

It sounds like you had a string of bad games and went on tilt and are focused on the few games and bad players that put you there, instead of focusing on what you need to improve on. How did you get to 100LP in the first place and become eligible for a promotion if every game has an AFK and feeders?

Some advice, if you have a few bad ranked games, quit for the day and play normals. You get caught in the mindset of needing to catch up, similar to gambling.

"Oh man, I've had a run of bad cards and I'm down $500. I need to be extra aggressive and make-up for this bad luck."

Except you aren't "down" anything, you're simply dealing with swings which is perfectly normal. What happens is you only continue to make worse and worse decisions and end up getting demoted, as you did.

cFlame3 votes

Whoa, wtf is your problem. Hes not being aggressive about anything. "How did he climb to 100LP if you get an afk every game?" Its every OTHER game, because Riots system will do nothing until players reach that magic number and then they will be put up with players that were detected with higher ping and have a lower win rate. It would be a damn miracle if someone climbed all ladders without an afk in they're promos. Some of the players wont believe me when I say the above, but they haven't had it bad enough yet. I'm not even ranked, but I have close friends in ranked.

CheckMyDoubles2 votes

{quoted} I'm not even ranked, but I have close friends in ranked.

Well then you're practically an expert on the subject.

Besides, I don't understand why you're so offended by what I wrote. I'm simply stating that ELO Hell does not exist.

NeoXStriker2 votes

Which is a dirty, filthy lie.

CheckMyDoubles3 votes

So, I guess that means that players who get to Platinum, Diamond, Master and Challenger tiers are just profoundly luckier than anyone else? They don't have AFKs, feeders and trolls.

Why is it that really good players don't seem to have this problem?

Rinky Dinky1 votes

You shouldnt need diamond player skills to carry yourself to gold m8

CheckMyDoubles1 votes

Diamond player skills will carry yourself to... diamond.

Just like Bronze, Silver and Gold. You're going to have bad games and people who don't pull their weight, but if you take a long stretch or average of games, it's primarily based on you.

Focus on what you can change which is your abilities, skills and decisions. Pointing your finger at the rest of the team for being the reason you aren't in another tier will get you absolutely nowhere...

NeoXStriker1 votes

Hurrrrrrrrr nice moving the goalposts I didn't say anything about Plat, Diamond, Master, and Challenge. I don't know and I don't really care if the Plat, Diamuhn, Mustard, and Challonge players are profoundly lucky or not, I'm telling you ELO Hell exists and you haven't dismissed it with any reason other than with a rhetorical question.

CheckMyDoubles1 votes

It's not a rhetorical question at all. Everyone has to grind up through the ranks, how is it that some players are able to achieve this successfully and others aren't?

Because some players have an inflated ego of themselves and blame their failures on being caught in a make believe "ELO Hell" and others strive to get better without making excuses for it, like being unlucky or having bad teammates.

You're probably in the rank and division that you deserve and you'll always be there until you understand that.

NeoXStriker1 votes

I don't know. I don't really care.

ELO Hell is a place where bad luck and bad teammates accumulate and are dumped onto you again and again.

And you're probably projecting your own experiences and inadequacies onto me.

CheckMyDoubles1 votes

Some people blame themselves and focus on what they can change. Some people say they're unlucky and it's not their fault.

One thought process will get you ahead in life, the other will leave you exactly where you are.

You can decide which one makes more sense.

NeoXStriker1 votes

Easy, both of them make sense.

TotalJerk3 votes

"It averages out" most people say. A crapshoot can average out as well if you play long enough. The keyword, though is CAN. "they have an equal chance of getting an AFK", well then why the fuck don't we just flip a coin and decide the outcome of the game over that, then? are you going to say that I'm just bad if I play ten games of Mario Party and lose six?

Luck seems to honestly have a noticeable impact on the outcome of games at lower ranks. Getting lucky enough to have smurfs or really good teammates, getting lucky enough to not have an AFK/disconnect on your side, getting lucky enough for their side to have that problem, lucky enough to get a first picker that makes sensible bans, lucky enough to lock the roles you're good at before someone higher in the pick order does, lucky enough that your opponent doesn't main/own a counterpick to your best champions, etc.

If you want an accurate representation of your skill, you should play 5s, because no matter the game, if it emphasizes teamwork, matches you randomly, and tries to assess a skill rating off of that, it isn't reliable.

Let's take this analogy back to school. Have you ever had a teacher randomly assign groups and give your group assignments where the assignment was graded as a group? If you were lucky, you could get a hard working smart kid who does the whole project for you, if you were unlucky, you could get a lazy delinquent who just drags your grade down because he doesn't do shit. Would you argue that in both cases you were equally deserving of the grade you got? At least if you got the delinquent as a result of picking him, you could blame yourself for making the mistake of partnering up with him.

Gym Leader Yaki2 votes

Yeah I've been getting a few DCers too. Not just because of the servers but a whole bunch of other reasons. It's really annoying to have 3-4 afkers in one morning (yesterday).

TheInbisibleMan2 votes

Until tomorrow it doesn't count

Fluppets2 votes

Remember for every AFK you get, your enemy team will get an AFK.

Think of it this way: 4 out of 10 games someone on your team will afk (4/10), the other 4 someone on their team will afk (8/10). 1 out of 10 games YOU will get a DC/lag or just be having a bad day (9/10). It's that one left-over game where all is equal that makes all the difference (10/10), save your energy from those nine games and focus it all on that one game.

So just shrug it off when there's a DC or troll both on the opposite or your team, shrug it off when just nothing seems to go right *or *your opponent is drunk. Pick up the challenge of a fair game and accept a win or lose on honest grounds. Those are the games that matter both in your mind as well as in your MMR and eventually your ranking.

On a final note accept a hard lesson learned, let go of the instant-gratification mentality that dictates you will always get ahead in life and try to enjoy the fun moments or if thats not your style, the small lessons learnt rather than waiting on an epiphany.

Junkο1 votes

You expected an elo system in a team game to be good?

Fzs1 votes

Yeah I just had 2 ranked games in a row with intentionally feeding, but its my fault for the losses.

cFlame1 votes

Why the hell is the money wasted on my ass instead of my ass? But in all seriousness, Riot should take notice of such a horrible situation.

ArcaneFox1 votes

I feel your pain and I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm terrified to do my placement matches. Last season 6 yes 6!!!! Games had a afk. I was put in bronze 5 despite playing with my silver and gold friends anddu keep up just fine. Rank means nothing unless you are above gold, at least in my experiemce. They need to fix the system but they wont

BlazinHot61 votes

I think everyone here feels and shares your pain OP. We have all been there man.

I want to share with you and everyone else the strat my friends and I use to climb in Solo queue.

  1. Do not play ranked when the kiddies are not currently in school or are still awake
  2. Do not play ranked during peak hours when the casuals and kiddies play this game

I realize how this sounds and I come off as an egotist. Anytime I stray from these 2 rules, I usually have the same luck as you have described. Most of those afk players that have connection issues: it really is THEM and not Rito. They share sub-standard internet connections together, and they use computers that cant even play the most basic and least resource intensive games like LoL. I could go into more detail but it would just be generalizing and stereotyping... Anyway, good luck to you all.

AssassinsØnly1 votes

ever since patch 4.21, the increase in AFK's and DC's has been incredible. I feel you. Went on major run and went from s5 to s3 in one day and dropped right back to s5 the next day due to 8 consecutive afk's. Their should be gameplay review to fix this kind of crap.

Legostrike1 votes

had something a couple similar things happen to me. I got placed in BI the first time I started ranked, but then i got hit by a MASSIVE losing streak that punched me down to BIII. So I shrugged and worked hard. finally got to BII. I celebrated, then had another MASSIVE losing streak and found myself right where I started. It seems you win some, you lose the same amount. In streaks.

sigh

Yasu0 is dog1 votes

2v2 is when things get really interesting anyways

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