Comparison of the tank-damaging items on AD and AP... Where is this fair.

RooseMagoose·3/7/2015, 9:42:51 PM·1 votes·444 views

My opinion, may it burn forever in the flames stoked by everyone about to argue against it, is that AD defense penetration (health scrape and arm pen) gets a far more noticeable result in the current meta than AP defense penetration (health scrape and mag pen).

*Note: I say penetration not as the technical term, but as a reference to the fact that champions that want to deal either AP or AD dmg against a tank tend to go to these items, such as Blade of the Ruined King, Liandry's Torment, Last Whisper, Void Staff, etc.

Having said such... I don't like this.

If you were to count up the items that AD items have, they have Blade of the Ruined King, Black Cleaver, Youmuu's Ghostblade, and Last Whisper.

AP Items really only have Liandry's Torment, Void Staff, and if we were to really push things, Abyssal Scepter, though in my opinion this just isn't as relevant an item as it should be, which adds to the point I'm trying to make.

AD focused champs have so many different ways to get past defense, but AP focused champs are left without many options when it comes to what to do about tanks, especially with the removal of the DFG.

Even if said AP focused champ is a mage or support that is there to apply CC, tenacity isn't noticeable enough an effect, seeing as most stuns only get reduced to a whopping one second.

Of course, you could argue that said CC can be made to "last longer" by studying when the target is about to come out of one CC before you apply another, but that's besides the point when the CC that you're laying down so that you can continue to dmg the target isn't really keeping them still enough to actually... dmg the target.

But at the same time, bringing DotA level stuns into LoL is something I don't want, obviously.

So why is this so clearly unchecked?

Since the olden days and into the meta today, the mage is a role dedicated to doing damage. Sure, they always have CC of some sort, but the CC is simply there to accompany the dmg that has to be put out so that the dmg actually lands.

But what's the point of the dmg if the dmg won't dmg?

Further counterpoint to this: Then the mage shouldn't be targetting tanks, durr.

True. But as some may know, once you've blown cooldowns making an enemy carry disappear, there are more than enough tanks in this game coughGarenDariusNasusetccough that can build tank and put out stupid amounts of dmg against the glass cannon mage, and even the slight tank mages that go RoA and/or Rylais, especially when most mages have to run off the limited gauges of mana.

If a manaless Darius that's built offtank and a manaless Malzahar got to a point of a punching contest, it becomes clear who would win.

MY POINT BEING

With as little salt as I can manage to carry across, as objectively as I can possibly manage...

I feel like mages as a whole don't have real answers to tanks. And I want to know why, considering that the other dmg output core of a team comp, the ADC (or marksman, w/e, fck you rito for wanting to be Robin Hood) has still been given quite manageable tools for it.

I'd like to be corrected, agreed with, etc. So I can at least feel sane about it in some way.

3 Comments

TehNACHO3/7/2015, 10:20:46 PM2 votes

Mages aren't really supposed to counter Tanks though.

The overall balancing triangle is: Tanks counter Burst Champs - Burst has a finite limit that tanks usually out scale Burst Champs counter DPS - Burst outscales a squishy's health, and Burst can kill a DPS before the DPS has the time to get their damage to ramp up DPS counter Tanks - Because DPS primarily scales on time and doesn't have the finite limit burst has to deal with, it's far easier for a DPS' damage to out scale a tank's health.

Mages are primarily burst based champs. With a few exceptions like Malzahar who walks a thin line between burst and DPS, or Karthus who straight up is a DPS, that means that Tanks will naturally counter Mages anyway.

Related note, this is also why ADs have so many ways around tanks. AD is usually tacked onto DPS forms of damage, the damage type targeted against Tanks.

The Whamboozler3/7/2015, 10:27:24 PM2 votes

If Malz is out of mana and resorting to a slap-fight with Darius, that Malz player screwed up HARD and deserves to die. TehNACHO already said it right. Tanks deal well with burst, and mages are mostly burst. If your mage drops all his spells and utterly DESTROYS the enemy mage or adc... you've done your job. Beyond that your use in a fight is more one of utility, dropping your CC and AoE damage over what's left or defending your own carries. Why would you ever think mages need help because they have trouble killing the class in the game that is hardest to kill. Sounds like that's working as intended.

In short... let the adc kill the tanks. Your job is to disable threats coming at him or destory their carry/assassin/squishy mage yourself.

Kitten of Evil3/7/2015, 9:47:56 PM1 votes

Mages do. Not all mages, though. You want a tank-shredding mage? Malzahar. % damage on his W, his ult has very very high damage and scales great, and add a Liandry's on top of his E and you can shred through most tanks.

Or Vel'Koz. True damage procs are very strong, and tanks are usually in your face and thus easy to hit.

Mages' role is to annihilate squishies while remaining far enough out of the fight to not get melted themselves.