What do non-resource-gated champs bring to the game?

NinjaFifer·Dec 12, 2014·5 votes·5,712 views

I posed this question about a year ago, and am interested to see, with the addition of yet another non-resource-gated (NRG) champion, what the community thinks now.

What value does giving certain champs no resource to manage bring to the game?

Edit: Sorry, I've talked about true non-resource-gated before, so the definition comes naturally to me, but what I'm really talking about are the champs who never have to worry about not being able to use an off-CD skill (barring CC or whatever). Energy, Heat, Health, Mana; all these do not fall under the purview of what I'm talking about.

35 Comments

RiotMeddlerDec 12, 201416 votes

Some of the values we see in non mana using champions:

It allows us to create champions with different feeling and acting kits. Shen for example's always going to have to really think about when he Shadow Dashes, given the high cost on it and that's something he can't get around with item purchases (can't buy so much energy the cost becomes irrelevant at some point).
It helps create variety of play experience, particularly when it comes to power curves and playstyles over the course of a game. Mana using champions go from being limited in lane to almost always using spells on CD in late game teamfights. Non mana champs, whether Heat, Energy, Fury or CD only, instead have similar limitations across the game, making laning in particular feel pretty different, both as them and against them.
Removing mana from a champion opens up some potential for interesting team comps. A non mana using mid for example means you're more able to pick a mana heavy jungler or give blue to another lane.
Non mana users value many items differently, since the mana and mana regen on them are irrelevant, so favor somewhat different builds, creating variety both for themselves and, to a much lesser extent, other people playing with them.

There are certainly costs as well of course. Mana's a really useful lever in balancing some abilities, particularly those that give easy wave clear or poke, limiting the amount they can be cast during the early game in particular. Resource management's also a really important skill in LoL (e.g. conserve mana better than lane opponent, bully them out once they're OOM). As a result if removing it from a kit you're going to want to ensure that either the alternate resource offers sufficient skill growth potential or that the rest of the kit has a deep enough mastery curve to not need it.

FyshinaTuxDec 12, 20144 votes

Wow, aside from knowing that mana-based champions are more constrained early rather than late, well I guess I just never really thought of them that way. Really nice post Meddler.

I'm actually wondering if you would have some time to chat about some things LoL related sometime. Any chance I can make a friend in the company? :D

NinjaFiferDec 12, 20146 votes

I agree with all the points about the alternate resource champs (energy, heat, health, whatever), but the completely non-resource-gated champs (the ones who don't have to worry about not being able to cast an off-CD skill at some point) seem to be the problem ones, in terms of finding their balance. Tryn, Renekton, Riven, Katarina, and now Rek'Sai, seem to be the ones either doing really well, or terribly. With the exception of Kat, every one of them is a pretty devastating lane bully as well, though their teamfight potential is somewhat lacking. Is this an intentional balance point? If Kat is intended to be on the same balance curve as other AP's, why then is she manaless in the first place?

I'm also interested in your (you, as the current face of Riot for this thread) decision last season to set Renekton as the balance point for top lane, when he is possibly intended to have the advantage over most champs in the early phase, due to his NRG nature. Wouldn't it have been an easier time balancing the rest of the champs around someone more central on the bell curve?

What are your feelings on NRG champs with innate sustain? These champs, in theory, only need to back to buy. Are their mechanics healthy for the laning phase?

Earl EulrichDec 12, 20143 votes

While you´re talking Shen...is it unthinkable to change his ult somewhat (less range or sth.) and finally buff the rest of his kit significantly enough to not feel bad about playing him in a serious match vs opponents that know how to disengage a long channel? He´s about the only heavily restricted Energy-user currently.

Ale non è maleDec 12, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=itLEbmNz,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2014-12-12T11:17:12.472+0000) While you´re talking Shen...is it unthinkable to change his ult somewhat (less range or sth.) and finally buff the rest of his kit significantly enough to not feel bad about playing him in a serious match vs opponents that know how to disengage a long channel? He´s about the only heavily restricted Energy-user currently.

It's more like the other energy champs have lower cost or way easier way to regain energy, energy should still gate a bit champion full combo rotation

Earl EulrichDec 12, 20145 votes

Well...for Lee and Zed energy works more or less fine - it´ll screw them if they miss their stuff, but if they play intelligently they don´t run into issues as long as the fight gets not really drawn out. Same with Akali, though it´s much harder to miss stuff with her and entirely depends on the opponents ability to kite. Then there´s Kennen...you really have to try hard to run into energy issues with him, he´s more cdr-gated than energy-restricted.

And then there´s Shen - his only contribution to a fight is his taunt, and he doesn´t catch several people in it he runs around crying to the gods to give him a little more energy so he can at least keep up the little power he offers with his other spells... Compared to everyone else that runs energy Shen just gets overly punished and his whole skillset resolves too much around taunt and his ultimate. He really would need some love/retuning to allow him to feel like a whole Champ, and not just like a walking Ultimate/Taunt-Bot.

Ale non è maleDec 12, 20146 votes

Well, Lee has literaly 0 energy problem even if he misses his spells, and the fact that he is very forgiving on this side is one of the many reasons why he is the first jungler picked basically any time he is available. If Lee misses, for example, his Sonic Wave, is just enough that there are a pair of jungle monster around to quickly regain energy (especially true when Lee players try to gank on mid lane from raptors camp). And he can basically cast abilities for free if he can sneak the pair of AA to regain energy in between of the second cast of his abilities and unleash the full combo which energy cost is really manageable if you can even sneak 1 AA after every ability Akali has 0 energy problems too unless you are turrible with her Zed, well at least you got to hit twice the enemies with your shadow, so if you miss him or the enemy is capable to kite you you could get in some light trouble from time to time, but really he is forgiving too as his full rotation cost is kinda low and allow him to cast another Shadow and use another ability to regain energy before running out of energy(and really, you are missing almost 2 rotations to go out of energy)

Kennen...well, I disagree, he is energy gated some, imho . Given that his CD are very low, he can't afford to use his abilities all day long as Akali/Lee can if he don't proc his passive and/or he got to use Lightning Rush defensively to escape instead of using offensively(and here, look at a lee that can jump with his Q on a jungle camp and restore energy while escaping with a pair of AA), and he needs to hit enemies 3 times to do that, so even with the low CD if he miss some ability or waste Lightning Rush(for energy restoration purposes, of course) he run out of energy and has to wait some(and his QWE combo has higher cost than Akali/Zed, as a matter of the fact). He is least forgiving of all the three champs mentioned above, really(another of the reason why he is maybe the only example of energy/no resource balanced champ, he is not THAT forgiving if failing to regen energy)

Shen yeah, we all agree on him, even riot agreed and hlped him a bit in the last patch. i think the core problem is the fact that, aside from hitting or not his taunt the energy regain is tied more to Feint and aa instead than to Vorpal Blade, which is non sense. If Shen is using Feint he is probably in a situation when he has trouble autoattacking because he has to survive first, and he can't even use Vorpal Strike often to regain health if the battle extends, so he can't effectively recover enough energy through Ki Strike

If Shen uses the taunt towards 2/3 enemies, but only hit 1, and has to Feint, 110 energy is yet gone, he can use 1 Vorpal Strike to sustain a bit longer, and then he can only use after a pair of second either 1 of Feint/Vorpal Strike until Ki Strike goes off CD(and if enemies caught Shen while he was splitpushing when he just AA a minion with Ki Strike up and apply some form to CC that impede him from AA he would need to wait for a lot of seconds) Ki Strike Cd reduction should be tied to Vorpal Blade too, not only to Feint, if they want to put Shen on par with the other energy champs. Like, if Shen hit with an AA an enemy marked with Vorpal Blade Ki Strike is reduced by an additional 0.5 seconds(stacking with Feint Ki strike CDR

MinrogDec 12, 20141 votes

And then there´s Shen - his only contribution to a fight is his taunt, and he doesn´t catch several people in it he runs around crying to the gods to give him a little more energy so he can at least keep up the little power he offers with his other spells...

I bought Shen the week he came out. He was really fun early on, but I'm pretty sure he was made into total trash because of his ultimate and not because of energy usage specifically. I mean he's a tank who doesn't gain MR/lvl and has only 1 tank skill. If they would just delete the global ultimate and give him a real tank ultimate they might be willing to make him not suck anymore, but it's been almost 5 years now so I doubt that will happen.

At least if you like playing a real ninja you can buy Zed, anyway.

Linna ExcelDec 12, 20141 votes

Meddler, overall Fury seems to be misused on a number of champs, with Reksai being the most glaring of them. What is the purpose of fury in general and are you guys going to do a pass to clean up the fury champs and make it feel like a resource?

KoboldDec 12, 20143 votes

{quoted} Some of the values we see in non mana using champions:

It allows us to create champions with different feeling and acting kits. Shen for example's always going to have to really think about when he Shadow Dashes, given the high cost on it and that's something he can't get around with item purchases (can't buy so much energy the cost becomes irrelevant at some point).

1.) I see your point here but then you compare Shen to the other energy champions whom have really easy ways to regenerate their energy or don't have to worry about it and have much lower CDs attached to their energy restore (see Akali and especially Lee Sin)

It helps create variety of play experience, particularly when it comes to power curves and playstyles over the course of a game. Mana using champions go from being limited in lane to almost always using spells on CD in late game teamfights. Non mana champs, whether Heat, Energy, Fury or CD only, instead have similar limitations across the game, making laning in particular feel pretty different, both as them and against them.

2.) If I am to understand what you are saying here is that NRG champions are supposed to be stronger early on in the game but fall off later as they have zero reason to back unless low on HP, so they are supposed to have a gradual curve in power instead of spikes in power for mana champions when they get regen. The problem with this is that almost all NRG champions have some form of built in sustain be it from shields to lifesteal while most mana based champions do not, This also has the problem of allowing champions extra slots overall to build either a offensive or defensive item. Most NRG champions also have lower CDs for their abilities compared to their mana counterparts which allows them to either burst faster or clear waves faster than mana champions of equal burst or clear power. If they don't kill their opponent they are put in a weak state due to having to wait for energy/cool off(heat) while their mana (unless near OOM) or manaless counterparts only would have to wait for CDs.

Removing mana from a champion opens up some potential for interesting team comps. A non mana using mid for example means you're more able to pick a mana heavy jungler or give blue to another lane.

3.) Can't argue that.

Non mana users value many items differently, since the mana and mana regen on them are irrelevant, so favor somewhat different builds, creating variety both for themselves and, to a much lesser extent, other people playing with them.

4.) Most mana regen items are terrible for stats with a few exceptions compared to the items that a manaless champion would buy as they don't need regen. Manaless champions also wouldn't benefit from the bonus effects of these items as they are very selfish in nature kit wise. Some of these items (Tear and to a lesser extent Chalice) are built for the sake of having late game power at the expense of immediate power (Ryze being the exception), the problem here is that a player who builds Tear is put at a huge disadvantage due to not having the boost a equally farmed manaless champion would have from buying damage as they needed in lane regen to stay in lane.

There are certainly costs as well of course. Mana's a really useful lever in balancing some abilities, particularly those that give easy wave clear or poke, limiting the amount they can be cast during the early game in particular. Resource management's also a really important skill in LoL (e.g. conserve mana better than lane opponent, bully them out once they're OOM). As a result if removing it from a kit you're going to want to ensure that either the alternate resource offers sufficient skill growth potential or that the rest of the kit has a deep enough mastery curve to not need it.

See 2.

551202Dec 12, 20141 votes

While we are talking about Nom mana and mana champs, the new passive (Mana Font) for item 3028 item 3174 item 3222 is useless and do not work. It's like a nerf to all the mana champ because they need 2/3 mana regen items now ( item 3070 item 3165 ) while a nom mana champ like Katarina can rush item 3089 item 3128 as 1st/2nd item (and its worse for the champs that get out of mana after 2 or 3 spells Lulu Galio Fizz Fiddlesticks etc...) So why not bring back the old passive (Increases mana regeneration by 1% per 1% of missing mana) for the item 3222 item 3174 only and increase their price and AP (something like 3000 Gold / 70 or 80 AP). Because the doesn't worth it now.

Hirok0Dec 12, 20141 votes

Actually, I have found that since the regen change, the majority of supports and mids I play don't even need chalice for spam anymore. I get item 3303 item 3165 or otherwise rack up between 100-200% base regen. That is enough needed for all but the blow-through 100% in a combo champs.

5G8Nri0B54Dec 13, 20141 votes

On someone like Shen and Rumble I can see their non-mana resource managing be a meaningful thing, ESPECIALLY Rumble...

However, it feels like many energy champion including a certain disabled champion don't even realize they have a resource to balance. People forget some of the energy champions are...energy champions.

So uh...more Rumbles plz.

WizzleboomDec 13, 20141 votes

Dude... You can't tell me that being able to spam abilities every time they are on cd to both farm and bully during the landing phase is healthy.

Also, where is the skill required in point and click akali/kat? Their abilities cannot miss rofl. You call that higher play style? They are the most face roll Champs of all.

Rengar and Garen are good examples of balanced champs in this category.

67chromeDec 12, 20148 votes

What value does giving certain champs no resource to manage bring to the game?

In a void? They bring us closer to URF mode.

In a broader sense, it allows champions to have skills that feel more like auto-attacks in power (which are manaless), rather than forcing skills into always using an ammo system that's predominantly there to offset the advantages of front-loading 10 seconds of DPS into 1 second. If you take a look at manaless champions, you'll generally notice their mana-based equivalents can drop a combo significantly faster and front-load more of their damage. Riven's ideal rotation involves casting the same skill no less than 3 times along with 2 casts of her ultimate, and optimally an auto-attack between each one of her skill casts. Over a 10 second period of time it's pretty impressive - but Jax, a fairly similar fighter/assassin mix, can unload an empowered strike, leap strike, counter-strike, grandmaster strike, and Tri-Froce proc in a skill+AA reset combo (he also front-loads all his gap-closing to happen at once in a way that doesn't sacrifice damage potential for mobility). Generally speaking - the combo time for alternate resource champions is much less front-loaded and takes longer to perform/allows more reaction time. Kennen, Vladimir, and Mordekaiser are more DPS mages than bursty, and even Zed and Akali requires a little more set-up and skill casts to unload everything properly than, say, LeBlanc.

Obviously there's a few exceptions, but the justification for manaless usually seems to be sustained damage is at a noteworthy disadvantage compared to burst damage. Anyways - I'd say most of the weirdness around manaless being a thing has to do with auto-attacks not costing mana.

NinjaFiferDec 12, 20141 votes

Good response. There is definitely a trend towards no burst damage from NRG champs. The problem I find that this brings, though, is a much more powerful laning phase, since that phase tends to favor the champs who can harass repeatedly. Teamfights are definitely tilted towards burst damage, but almost every one of these NRG champs are major lane bullies, especially the ones with built in sustain. That baffled my mind, earlier in S4, when they said they wanted Renekton to be the top lane balance bar, even though he has a core mechanic that less than 10% of champs exhibit. How do you feel about that aspect, and what are your thoughts on the health of NRG sustain champs in general?

67chromeDec 14, 20141 votes

Well - strong in lane and weak in team fights is a reasonable statistical and balanced trade-off IMO.

Annoying to no end when you're starting out and learning the game, because picking a fight 1v1 isn't something every champion is actually balanced around. But pretty interesting for the broader scope of the game due to strategic and itemization/customization it brings.

Also - strong lane/weak late champions, or strong duel/weak team-fight champions tend to force a lot more map movement and interesting, split-up action - leading to split-push and pick strategies. Manaless champions help push this kind of diversity a little more than mana based champions due to that strong lane/duel dynamic.

Ale non è maleDec 12, 20141 votes

{quoted} In a void? They bring us closer to URF mode.

In a broader sense, it allows champions to have skills that feel more like auto-attacks in power (which are manaless), rather than forcing skills into always using an ammo system that's predominantly there to offset the advantages of front-loading 10 seconds of DPS into 1 second. If you take a look at manaless champions, you'll generally notice their mana-based equivalents can drop a combo significantly faster and front-load more of their damage. ** Riven's ideal rotation involves casting the same skill no less than 3 times along with 2 casts of her ultimate, and optimally an auto-attack between each one of her skill casts. Over a 10 second period of time it's pretty impressive - but Jax, a fairly similar fighter/assassin mix, can unload an empowered strike, leap strike, counter-strike, grandmaster strike, and Tri-Froce proc in a skill+AA reset combo (he also front-loads all his gap-closing to happen at once in a way that doesn't sacrifice damage potential for mobility). Generally speaking - the combo time for alternate resource champions is much less front-loaded and takes longer to perform/allows more reaction time. Kennen, Vladimir, and Mordekaiser are more DPS mages than bursty, and even Zed and Akali requires a little more set-up and skill casts to unload everything properly than, say, LeBlanc. **

** Obviously there's a few exceptions, but the justification for manaless usually seems to be sustained damage is at a noteworthy disadvantage compared to burst damage. ** Anyways - I'd say most of the weirdness around manaless being a thing has to do with auto-attacks not costing mana.

PFFF Compare Riven and Jax make no sense as their style is completely different. Riven is about spamming combo on enemies and burst them down or move away, wait for CDs and passive charge and then rinse and repeat until she kills the enemy, Jax is about find the right occasion to jumping on your enemy to take him out in one all-in, and sticking to him until you take him down. Jax never jump out of a fight if he doesn't really need to escape because he has make a mistake at first in jumping in or enemies are collpasing on him And no, manaless don't have DPS instead than burst in the kit of those champs or lower burst than their mana counterparts, you purposedly picked some of the few non bursty champs among manaless champs. Leblacn now still need to pull the root and use the extra damage on Q while avoiding to be bursted down. This does not require less set-up than an Akali combo

67chromeDec 13, 20142 votes

Compare Riven and Jax make no sense as their style is completely different.

Then you proceed to list exactly the difference in play style I highlighted -_-

And no, manaless don't have DPS instead than burst

My argument wasn't trying to say 100% black DPS vs. 100% white burst, sorry if I'm causing confusion there (which I seem to be, looking at other posts).

It's just that mana tends to lead to comparatively more front-loaded damage than manaless. It's very much an issue of subtle shades of gray. It's important to compare mages to mages, assassins to assassins, fighters to fighters, and tanks to tanks to see this play out.

Vladimir and Kennen are obviously bursty when compared to Tryndamere or Kog'Maw, but compared to other mages like Annie or Lux - the 5-stacks on tides of blood, multi-hit Mealstrom ultimate, and comparatively short range of Vlad and Kennen compared to most mages, puts them in far less of a front-loaded damage position than their counterparts and much more of a sustained DPS position. Kennen even has a pretty solid AA steroid that has seen him played as a marksman on occasion.

Or look at Shen vs. Leona. Leona can combo lock-down an opponent with a pretty front-loaded combo. Shen's skills (outside of his no-damage ultimate) are so weak he needs to get off a solid 2 of everything to really come close to the same kind of combo - making his far less front-loaded and stretching it out over a longer period of time.

Or Garen vs. Darius. Darius can front-load his trading damage in Decimate, exposing himself to danger for a very minimal amount of time and even getting some no-risk DPS via his passive. Meanwhile Garen's Judgement requires Garen sticking within melee range of an opponent for 3 seconds - big difference in front-loaded power compared to the ~0.5 seconds Darius needs to cast his skill.

Ale non è maleDec 14, 20141 votes

The problem I see in your argument, is that when talking about the DPS vs burst difference in kit design that would be given to compensate the lack of mana, you just cherrypick specific champs to sustain your argumentation Why take Kennen and Vlad as example and not Akali, Kata, Lee, the pre-nerf Renek , Yasuo(Yasuo more because of his awkward power curve cause of the crit passive more than as design choice) , etc?

The difference in kit design can be influenced by the resource the champs use, but this reasoning is true looking at the specific champ and not to the overall category of the manaless champs, because, simply, in the manaless champs there are champs with various style that goes from pure DPS to huge burst champs or a mix of everything,

What is the sense of comparing a pure splitpushing tank to a strong engae support like Shen vs Leona? Garen vs Darius depends more on the fact that Darius must go for damage while Garen for more tankiness through the passive and so they must have differences in damage And why Kennen should be compared to Annie and Lux instead than to the number of poking mages out there(example Ziggs or xerath) - Lux with that kind of Cd can't really considered as a poker as more of an harassing mage and Annie differ for range - ?

ƒenrisúlfrDec 12, 20142 votes

Lower skill caps and accessibility to users who have a hard time managing resource consumption over time.

Anivia is a good example of a very powerful champion who is only effective when her resources are managed with keen oversight.

NinjaFiferDec 12, 20141 votes

That's definitely the most common response. The usual counter is that these entry level champs are supposed to be generally weaker to push players to learn the harder champs, but many of these NRG champs are actually very viable; actually Reketon was set as the top lane balance bar in S4. The problem with your point is that, in order to be entry level and a learning tool, with all player skill and familiarity level being the same, NRG champs should be weaker than resource champs to push those who wish to really succeed at this game upwards.

ƒenrisúlfrDec 13, 20141 votes

I don't view it as a question of power, I view it as a question of consistency. Resource gated champions (at least some) should have the option of consciously choosing periods of time within which they spam their skills like crazy for moments of high-efficacy, at the expense of a trip back to base or mana-regen downtime and low ability usage. It's a strategic decision.

Non-resource gated champions are able to use their rotations at their leisure, bringing consistency and reliability (they can always perform at a certain level) without the option of ramping up their power due to strategic necessity.

Hirok0Dec 12, 20142 votes

Not fair at all to say that their mana-constrained counterparts can outburst them. That bottom row is burst central. And most of the tops (zac/tryn/gnar/aatrox/kennen/vlad) can build to be pretty damn bursty too. But, with the exception of Lee and Riven, most mana-less champs are weak early game in exchange for being able to stay in lane longer, level to midgame sooner, and then turn the lane around and wreck mid-late game. For the most part, I feel like they require a little higher mechanical skill to compensate for lack of mana management. Aatrox DrMundo Gnar Shen Tryndamere Zac Kennen Vladimir Katarina Akali Zed Yasuo Riven LeeSin

NinjaFiferDec 12, 20145 votes

I suppose I could have been a little more clear, but non-resource-gated means champs who don't expend any resource (or generate heat, as is Rumble's case) when they cast a spell. The question to ask to verify is "will there ever be a time that they can't cast a spell when it's off cooldown and not under any outside effects?" Health, energy, heat, mana. All those are already good and healthy in my mind. It's the remaining ones who tend towards problematic laning phases in particular.

With the exception of Kat, I would disagree with you that any of the NRG champs are bursty. Yasuo is the burst-iest of them all, and even he functions off of auto attacks and his Q's a ton. He's just as bursty as your average ADC, with free crit and better base stats to make him slightly more bursty earlier.

The WhamboozlerDec 12, 20141 votes

{quoted} Not fair at all to say that their mana-constrained counterparts can outburst them. That bottom row is burst central. And most of the tops (zac/tryn/gnar/aatrox/kennen/vlad) can build to be pretty damn bursty too. But, with the exception of Lee and Riven, most mana-less champs are weak early game in exchange for being able to stay in lane longer, level to midgame sooner, and then turn the lane around and wreck mid-late game. For the most part, I feel like they require a little higher mechanical skill to compensate for lack of mana management.

Trynd requires mechanical skill? And Akali? Riven? Since when?

ElphrihaimDec 12, 20142 votes

I agree, Athene's needs buffs.

Or maybe people need to learn to spam less. But this doesn't solve the problem for a lot of champions...

So, and this is my personal favorite, increase the Mana Regen growth stat of Champions some more.

RatbertDec 12, 20142 votes

People need to learn to spam less. It solves many MANY problems.

Eve The RipperDec 12, 20141 votes

Those are nice advantages, but what about the negative value? Especially on the champions that can harass at range, is it at all healthy when they can do it without meaningful consequence?

NinjaFiferDec 12, 20143 votes

The one that really bugs me are the NRG champs who have innate sustain. Renekton and Tryn are the most egregious of these, since they can stay in lane forever, theoretically, until they need to buy.

I'm seeing the same pattern with my plays of Rek'Sai. After my first back (typically only buying tier 1 jungle item and boots+wards), I never have to leave my jungle, since I actually heal on the camps and have nothing else to kick me out. No blue needed at all either.

Ale non è maleDec 12, 20141 votes

{quoted} The one that really bugs me are the NRG champs who have innate sustain. Renekton and Tryn are the most egregious of these, since they can stay in lane forever, theoretically, until they need to buy.

I disagree about tryn, though. among manaless champs he is one of the most balanced because he got to choose if either go in to keep Fur(and relative bonuses) up or not, and this leaves windows to counterplay him because you know he is goinghim and you can make him pay for it by keep distance and poke/harass, or simply CC him and kill him alone or with someone help, or force him to stay back because he is scared from your poiwer so he can't proc Fury and his power is reduced a lot

Ale non è maleDec 12, 20141 votes

Champs with various added strenghts and barring some exceptions (hi Shen) without some meaningful weaknesses coming from being resource gated Most of the manaless champs needed to be nerfed/tweaked in the recent past because of the advantage of being capable of spamming skills with no cost related.

Except Kennen (the example of a balanced manaless champ with relevant strengths and weaknesses), I can't think of an energy champ that didn't need big tweaking in the past because they get too strong(and some still are) at some point

A different thought is for health gated champs, that rely upon the overall state of health in the game(example Mundo which strength tier change depending on the balance between health and anti-health item and now is not in a very good spot while some time ago was destroying everything) and have at least a generally weak early while they get enogh health to start using intensively their abilities without fear og etting too low on HP

Mirage NightDec 12, 20141 votes

Here is a question.

Why are NRG champions not dominating every aspect of the game?

Eve The RipperDec 12, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mirage Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=itLEbmNz,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2014-12-12T21:39:40.039+0000) Here is a question.

Why are NRG champions not dominating every aspect of the game?

They're not, generally, overpowered. Rather, they have a different power curve which one might argue is not always balanced well.

In other cases, such as Lee Sin, they do dominate everything.

ADC BardDec 16, 20141 votes

LC$ Big Play

being OOM means you can't do those flashy "high skill cap" plays