"Jhin Austin, thespian, a man barely alive. Gentleman, we can rebuild him. We have the hextechnology. We have the capability to make the Rift's first, composite champion. Jhin Austin will be that man."
A worse 
passive.
A better 
W.
A worse 
Q.
A better W.
A worse 
R.
The ammo mechanic of 
.
The survivability of 
.
The mobility of 
.
RiotAD Yuumi132 votesTeehee, you should have seen what I did for Vi ;)
, the copycat Enforcer
's passive
Worse 
Q
Worse 
W
's R on her basic attack. Twice.
Better 
R
Yma S11 votesTeehee, you should have seen what I did for Vi ;)
I mean you can joke around all you want, the truth is that most of Riot's designs are very homogenized with very few unique abilities that are exclusively unique to that person and provide a reason for them to be viable and to exist.
You've definitely improved over league of generic bruisers with gap closer and knockup in season 3, Where abominations like Wukong, Aatrox, and Volibear were "Created"
but when wast the last time you made someone with as much unique gameplay as Draven
Ahristocats7 votes[{quoted}](name=Yma S,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ioagNZtE,comment-id=00060004,timestamp=2016-01-12T22:14:51.737+0000)
I mean you can joke around all you want, the truth is that most of Riot's designs are very homogenized with very few unique abilities that are exclusively unique to that person and provide a reason for them to be viable and to exist.
You've definitely improved over league of generic bruisers with gap closer and knockup in season 3, Where abominations like Wukong, Aatrox, and Volibear were "Created"
but when wast the last time you made someone with as much unique gameplay as Draven
that's why certainlyT at the cost of heathly gameplay makes unique champs, none has 
ulti definitlyn nor 
lantern, 
ulti
Narasimha6 votesOff the top of my head, Azir, Bard, Kindred, and Illaoi.
Yma S2 votesOff the top of my head, Azir, Bard, Kindred, and Illaoi.
Flashy new VFX and "different" methods of dealing damage are still the same thing, just an illusion of creativity. Just because she has tentacles that spawn and do tons of damage (tm) doesn't make any part of this unique or different.
Out of all those you listed, Bard actually has a unique ult that has a unique form of utility that no one else in the game has. Kindred's is just Trynd with counterplay.
Narasimha11 votes"different" methods of dealing damage are still the same thing,
By this logic, all humans are the same. We all breath air and eat food, right?
No one has any form of Azir's W, or his passive, or his ult. Unique. No one has any form of Bard's W, E, or his ult, Unique. No one has any form of Illaoi's E. Unique.
Kindred, I can half agree on. It is Trynd's ult, but the fact that it applies to EVERYONE makes it different in an important way.
NostolgicSkies1 votes[{quoted}](name=Yma S,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ioagNZtE,comment-id=0006000400010000,timestamp=2016-01-12T22:29:44.086+0000)
Flashy new VFX and "different" methods of dealing damage are still the same thing, just an illusion of creativity. Just because she has tentacles that spawn and do tons of damage (tm) doesn't make any part of this unique or different.
Out of all those you listed, Bard actually has a unique ult that has a unique form of utility that no one else in the game has. Kindred's is just Trynd with counterplay.
Bards ult is just more or less lissandras ult, the only trade is its an AoE that hits everyone and deals no dmg in return for such utility. but at its core its a more utility based lissandra ult.
DemiluniS1 votesWhat?!
what you deserve1 votesGeez man, if you don't like dealing damage or CCing people, why even play this game?
RiotAD Yuumi101 votesSerious respone:
I'm totally fine making a kit that has similar abilities to other champs. What's important is that THE KIT plays different, not any individual spell. And trust me, Jhin is VERY different.
Honestly, if you were to look at Draven's abilities in a champion reveal without playing the character you'd probably be complaining about how boring he looked. An AD amp like Vayne Q, A tristana Q with a MS buff, A boring knockaside missile, Ezreal R that comes back. Nothing in his tooltips really delves into how truly unique and different the axe catching movement game is.
Also, as an unrelated to Jhin sidepoint, I'm not sure everyone needs as much unique gameplay as Draven. While some people find his axe catching compelling and enjoyable, others name it as the primary reason they will never touch the character. Our game needs characters with varying degrees of accesibility. It needs Garen and Sona types just as much as it needs Yasuo and Draven types.
KONO RUBICK DA3 votesSerious respone:
I'm totally fine making a kit that has similar abilities to other champs. What's important is that THE KIT plays different, not any individual spell. And trust me, Jhin is VERY different.
Honestly, if you were to look at Draven's abilities in a champion reveal without playing the character you'd probably be complaining about how boring he looked. An AD amp like Vayne Q, A tristana Q with a MS buff, A boring knockaside missile, Ezreal R that comes back. Nothing in his tooltips really delves into how truly unique and different the axe catching movement game is.
Also, as an unrelated to Jhin sidepoint, I'm not sure everyone needs as much unique gameplay as Draven. While some people find his axe catching compelling and enjoyable, others name it as the primary reason they will never touch the character. Our game needs characters with varying degrees of accesibility. It needs Garen and Sona types just as much as it needs Yasuo and Draven types.
thank you man! it would just be perfect if you can tell us how is jhin's gameplay, and how he feels different to use !
linkmastr0015 votesLook at his Jihn's passive:
WHISPER: Jhin’s gun - Whisper - chambers four shots, the last of which always crits and applies extra damage based on a portion of his target’s missing health. After firing all four shots, Jhin takes a moment to reload. Jhin’s crits deal less damage than normal, and his attack speed doesn’t actually scale with attack speed. Instead, Jhin gains attack damage from any attack speed and crit chance he earns through itemization and runes, while crits give him a burst of movement based on his attack speed.
He has a reload passive like Graves does, and seems to not be able to use attack speed at all (in the traditional sense). I'm curious to see if he reloads faster as the game progresses, or always at the same rate. Also curious if he gains traditional attack speed while leveling, or if his 4 shots always fire at the same rate.
EDIT: Not saying this defines all of how he feels different, but judging by his abilities, it'll deffinately take the most getting used to.
ACENOX6 votesSerious respone:
** I'm totally fine making a kit that has similar abilities to other champs. What's important is that THE KIT plays different, not any individual spell**. And trust me, Jhin is VERY different.
i think it's already the end, isn't it? at least it is if all the designer think like you
because what is important is that we use spells that we consider none has ever in the game, when i play 
i can turn the fight into 6v4 and none NONE IN THE GAME can do this, and i smile when i think about it.
Your example, you tried to troll but you showed how the champs are in general, about that vi's ulti which is an other cc, an other knock up, an other gap closer+knock up but point and click. how will we be able to choose someone? we will just take the STRONGEST, the strongest cc, the strongest mobility, the strongest in general like what happened with the vi/lee/jarvan meta, and you remember what said meddler? he wanted to buff nocturne's ulti blind so we have a reason to pick nocturne over them because he would bring a global blind. i'm sorry but this is just incoherant with your decision, if everyone do like you this will just end up with "pick the strongest one".
how could this even happen
RiotAD Yuumi68 votesI dunno, by the "if the tooltip reads similar then it's not unique" argument, the only thing separating Lux R and Jarvan Q is the armor shred. Both are "deal damage to everything in a rectangle after a cast time." This leaves out a lot of really important soft factors that contribute to seemingly similar spells feeling incredibly different. Cast/charge times, range, reliability, damage tunings, cooldowns, all of these things can contribute to "samey" spells being very different. Not to mention the other spells on the kit that they will end up combo'ing with. This is what I'm getting at. Spells can read similar, it's the kit that makes a character feel different.
I remember when Lux was announced and everyone was like "gg riot, nice Morgana clone." Snare skillshot, Shield, AoE Zone. They were basically the same champion...then people played Lux and all those worries faded away. The ranges on her spells combined with the uniqueness of her ult, created a completely different play pattern from Morgana.
You're right though, it's bad to create champions who all compete on being "the strongest." I too believe that every champion needs something special that no one else can do to make them feel unique and powerful even when they aren't at the top of the foodchain. I just don't think it needs to be as unique as "you've never heard of this before and therefore it is unique." As many Vi mains (and the ADC players they abuse) can contest, Vi's R is special because of its reliability. It's the longest range guaranteed point and click uncleansable CC in the game and a gap closer on top of that. No one else offers that.
CaptnJakSparrow1 votesI dunno, by the "if the tooltip reads similar then it's not unique" argument, the only thing separating Lux R and Jarvan Q is the armor shred. Both are "deal damage to everything in a rectangle after a cast time." This leaves out a lot of really important soft factors that contribute to seemingly similar spells feeling incredibly different. Cast/charge times, range, reliability, damage tunings, cooldowns, all of these things can contribute to "similar" spells being very different. Not to mention the other spells on the kit that they will end up combo'ing with. This is what I'm getting at. Spells can read similar, it's the kit that makes a character feel different.
I remember when Lux was announced and everyone was like "gg riot, nice Morgana clone." Snare skillshot, Shield, AoE Zone. They were basically the same champion...then people played Lux and all those worries faded away. The ranges on her spells combined with the uniqueness of her ult, created a completely different play pattern from Morgana.
You're right though, it's bad to create champions who all compete on being "the strongest." I too believe that every champion needs something special that no one else can do to make them feel unique and powerful even when they aren't at the top of the foodchain. I just don't think it needs to be as unique as "you've never heard of this before and therefore it is unique." As many Vi mains (and the ADC players they abuse) can contest, Vi's R is special because of its reliability. It's the longest range guaranteed point and click CC in the game and a gap closer on top of that. No one else offers that.
Gypsy, where are the butterflies :|, and the giant tree?
Gigahappytown2 votesGypsy, where are the butterflies :|, and the giant tree?
thats his passive on E that was left out of the reveal due to time contstraints
champions killed leave a flower that reveales nearby champions then explodes dealing damage
DrCyanide7 votesI remember when Lux was announced and everyone was like "gg riot, nice Morgana clone."
To be fair, that's still how those two come across to new players. Which would be pretty cool and thematic if Lux and Morgana were sisters instead of Morgana and Kayle... ah well. I doubt either fanbase would be happy if a rework was so much as whispered about.
As for Jhin, I feel like he's a champion I'll get burned on. I love the idea of an uber long range skillshot champion with traps, and am itching to try him mid lane. That said, I though Azir would be amazing right off... still not over that one. I worry Jhin will be less about his abilities than I'm hoping for, that his cooldowns will be too long, or his damage output not what I'm looking for, etc.
AMYS GRAVE4 votesAs many Vi mains (and the ADC players they abuse) can contest, Vi's R is special because of its reliability.
Its reliable until it goes on full cooldown after they use zhonyas, vlad pool, fizz pole, yi alpha strike, etc.... so any untargetability makes it unreliable to use.
WoonStruck13 votesIts reliable until it goes on full cooldown after they use zhonyas, vlad pool, fizz pole, yi alpha strike, etc.... so any untargetability makes it unreliable to use.
Its not unreliable at all. That's like saying ranged auto attacks are unreliable because of Amumu, Teemo, Graves, Nocturne, Quinn. Or for that matter, anyone that has a stun/fear/charm.
Except Vi R has much more impact and a much longer range, meaning you aren't gimping yourself if you save it for when it is guaranteed to have an impact. As an engage tool, it is extremely reliable. Just don't be dumb and use it at dumb times.
Edit: People downvoting because they don't have common sense I guess. The lower effective CD something has, the more you're setting yourself behind in a fight when you reserve its use. The longer CD, the more likely someone is to reserve it for when it will have maximum impact. Something having counterplay doesn't make it unreliable. It makes it fair. Is somebody going to tell me Annie's Q isn't reliable because Nocturne, Sivir, and Banshee's Veil exist now?
AMYS GRAVE5 votesExcept Vi R has much more impact and a much longer range,
...and a much higher cooldown, making losing it much more meaningful as well. Meanwhile in comparison if cait does the same thing with her ult it goes on a few second cooldown. You want reliable? Lee sin's ult is a non-cleanseable knock up that has two built in stuns to ensure it can't be flashed, zhonyas-ed, or removed in any way. Imagine the shit-storm that would go on with the balance team if a single lee sin ult missed.
WoonStruck4 votes...and a much higher cooldown, making losing it much more meaningful as well. Meanwhile in comparison if cait does the same thing with her ult it goes on a few second cooldown. You want reliable? Lee sin's ult is a non-cleanseable knock up that has two built in stuns to ensure it can't be flashed, zhonyas-ed, or removed in any way. Imagine the shit-storm that would go on with the balance team if a single lee sin ult missed.
Yeah, losing it is meaningful, but that's why you don't use it the moment you can. You use it when it will have maximum impact. If you know somebody can go untargetable, don't ult them until they use that ability.
Caits ult only does damage, and can only have an impact on a single person, which anyone can block. Imagine of someone could block Vi ult. Cait was given that little utility that back when her Ult was considered one of the worst in the game. Even now good players just use it as poke before a fight more often than not, so that 'reliability' you're trying to claim isn't really there. It would be stupid if Vi got the same treatment. Especially since her ult can't be interrupted. Cait's a pretty terrible example.
Melee abilities are often more reliable than ranged ones, so I don't know why you're trying to argue that a melee ability is more reliable than a ranged one.
AMYS GRAVE2 votesIt would be stupid if Vi got the same treatment. Especially since her ult can't be interrupted. Cait's a pretty terrible example.
Cait might be a bad example, but Vi ult can be interrupted by any untargetability.
WoonStruck5 votesCait might be a bad example, but Vi ult can be interrupted by any untargetability. You can't interrupt it with CC, though.
A skill having one extremely limited form of counterplay makes it unreliable now? One that no ADC except sivir has, who is exactly who you should be ulting the majority of the time. Not to mention that you can still auto, e, q, auto, e and kill sivir during that.
Less than 10% of the cast having a tool that can respond to something doesn't make it unreliable. That makes it extremely reliable.
Outside of that, there's Zhonia's. If somebody uses Zhonia's on your ult, they're basically dead anyway if your team is following up on you properly, otherwise you chose an extremely poor target.
Reliable doesn't mean perfect. Some things may be advertised 'impossible to break' and have a warranty to back it up, but there are still situations where they break. That's why there's a warranty. Its just rare. That doesn't make them unreliable.
UP2004 votesIs somebody going to tell me Annie's Q isn't reliable because Nocturne, Sivir, and Banshee's Veil exist now?
Those also block vi ult CC and damage.
also,
People downvoting because they don't have common sense I guess.
Whining about downvotes? what are you a child?
WoonStruck5 votesThose also block vi ult CC and damage.
also,
Whining about downvotes? what are you a child?
Again, a spellshield blocking something doesn't make it unreliable. Unreliable against those champions when they're not on CD, yes. But unreliable, no.
I'm not whining, its just surprising that the boards lack so much common sense that they'd disagree with logic and facts. Then again, people hate being proven wrong.
Decrit2 votesno, you see, people in this forum want counterplay in the form of " If i cry enough in front of the screen my salty tears wash the enemy away".
LatticeGrimoire1 votesSo what is One thing that she get?
Pyrodinium1 votesThe longest natural attack range, even more range when the passive is triggered, and the longest-range point-and-click nuke.
LatticeGrimoire1 votesOnly thing longest RANGE at what one through eight and then 
overtakes her?
and her R is not exactly point and click its more point click wait then get intercepted
The Ecdysiast2 votesHey, as far as champion "clones" go, I think you need more. As long as mirror matches (ie. Actual tests of skill) are banned from Ranked, on the premise that every champion is balanced (wouldn't need bans if that were true), there need to be more champions who are similar in playstyle and role to combat the others.
ItemsGuy1 votesWhile I won't attempt to speak for anybody else here, it seems that while a lot of people are citing their disappointment as "these abilities seem kind of similar to other abilities!" it's probably more likely that the disappointment is coming from said abilities not really seeming to be presented in a context that allows them to feel fresh. For example:
- Despite his Q being "just another skillshot with a slow", having it exist as part of An Acquired Taste's system (having it apply a stack, rewarding players with a stun if they've already applied 3) gives it a fresh new feel and new decisions to make. Even among other similar abilities tied to champions within Tahm's role, it's not like Braum's projectile because allies can't interact with its effects, it's not like Mundo's cleaver due to target selection (Mundo wants to hit healthier targets to optimize % current health damage), it's not like Olaf's axe because it's equally useful for chasing and fleeing rather than strongly preferring one over the other with an interactive minigame, it's not like Sion's shout because there's no reason to try to use it on things in front of your target, etc.; it's the decisions that surround these abilities that make them different, not the basic tooltips they're tied to.
Likewise, with 3-hit passives--hell, 3-hit passives that give the user a huge movespeed boost, even, or 3-hit passives that can be partially triggered with a boomeranging skillshot--Gnar's and Ekko's still feel substantially different due to the factors that surround their use. Whether that's attack range, what kind of damage they deal (Ekko's wants to nuke squishies, Gnar's is great for kiting bruisers with high HP but not much MR), whether or not they have an internal cooldown (Ekko wants to skirmish, Gnar wants to kite and flee and chase), and so on!
My main worry with Jhin, though, is that from what I've seen, it doesn't feel like I'll really be having to make different decision with him compared to Cait, who was recently reworked. My main gameplay as him is still going to involve setting up traps in advance and responding to them with a narrow, long-ranged skillshot that I don't want other enemies to bodyblock; I'm still going to have a special attack that I want to hit a champion with, which I'll generate by attacking minions from safe range; I'm still going to want to either use a really long-range ult to finish people off or soften them up and hope people don't block my projectiles; I'm going to mainly focus on bullying my opponents with impressive range and positioning carefully due to my low mobility, but I'll still be able to distance myself a bit if I prepare for it, and so on.
Strategically, as Jhin, I don't think I'd be able to bring anything to the team that Cait can't aside from some nitty-gritty specifics. "We want a really slow Marksman that can set up with traps, poke enemies down from range, throw a little CC in the mix, and pick off enemies with their ultimate if they just barely get away from the fight." Will the difference between the two really be that Cait provides her root with her trap and not by shooting someone immediately after they get slowed by her trap? That Jhin has to manually aim his ult and Cait doesn't? It doesn't seem like enough distinction to me, and I fear we're just going to get another Akali/Diana situation again--only one of the two will ever be played due to doing their thing better, and the other will sometimes be mentioned as a problem by devs on the forums.
Gixia2 votesi think it's already the end, isn't it? at least it is if all the designer think like you
because what is important is that we use spells that we consider none has ever in the game, when i play
Uh... 
says hi? I mean, I know he's toxic and all, but let's not completely forget that he exists at all.
The Ecdysiast1 votesI don't think being unbeatable for the first eight minutes of the game, then useless after, makes a champion toxic.
Gixia1 votesActually, it kinda does. It makes for an extremely frustrating lane for your opponent and extremely frustrating everything else for your teammates. That's pretty much the exact definition of a toxic champion. It's why Yorick is on the shit list of champs who aren't even allowed to be a part of the free champ rotation. In fact, with Poppy finally getting her remake, Yorick is now the ONLY champ still on the shit list.
The Ecdysiast1 votesNot at all. A toxic champion is one who ruins the entire game or makes playing an entire game against them so absolutely unbearable that you don't want to play, or they're unbeatable after the point where the game is actually at stake.
Being unbeatable for the earliest part of the game (assuming the enemy doesn't know how to target the ghouls, and isn't Nasus), then having that advantage completely removed, is not the same.
Gixia2 votesWell clearly Riot disagrees, and unfortunately for you, their definition is the one that matters. Yorick deemed toxic, removed from free champ rotation and scheduled for remake.
The Ecdysiast1 votesUnfortunately for you, their definition is not because of his llaning phase alone. He's toxic to play exactly for the reason I said. He ruins the entire game for his allies because he has the earliest fall-off point of any character even when fed. If characters were deemed toxic just for being unbeatable in lane, every strong early-game champion would be taken off the block.
Vellich0r5 votesHonestly, if you meant Jhin as I see him, then you did a good job. Maybe my mind is just a bit more twisted, but I DO see an artist in Jhin. He isn't just a brutish "marksman" who runs into the fray guns' a blazing, no, he is careful: methodical even. He lays down his traps like set pieces and then uses his abilities to make the subject of his art, "dance" to his rhythm. He is a mastermind, a virtuoso, using even the enemies play, their slightest tendencies to render his artistry. Seeing how they push, when they push, where they step when they run from a gank, their harassing patterns, andwhere they ward, he uses all of these things to plan the perfect scene for the pinnacle of his art and their perfect moment of beauty: Death.
Keevalroy1 votesJust an opinion here: League could do with far less of Yasuo than Riot wants - both for accessibility and gameplay reasons. Draven is unique, but you don't need a three page report to describe what his abilities do.
I see a lot of champions recently who follow this pattern, and Jhin is partially guilty of this as well, though not as extreme as a few others: Here's one ability or passive that does this, this, this, is inhibited by this, but gives him this instead which does this to other people, and gives this buff. That's over-dramatizing the situation, but it's something I don't believe is helping with either readability or accessibility, and instead creates the frustration you guys said you wanted to avoid.
Too much effort is being spent on making the champion look and feel cool without much thought going into what it's like to play with and against them, which is why I consider Jhin was partially guilty seeing as he doesn't have mobility that puts Usain Bolt to shame. Thank you for that, I was strongly considering quitting League when the next champion (just happens to be this one) was released and they not only were overloaded to hell and back for the sake of uniqueness, but also had infinite dashes and teleports meant for #BigPlays...
Kieferr1 votesWell I hope you strongly reconsider quitting at the release of the next champion. You do nothing but spread lies and false doctrine to the boards. Yeah, I hate yasuo just as much as the next guy, but I'm not delusional enough to believe that riot would even consider for one tenth of a second that they would rework him. So please, stop trying to relive the glory days of season 1 or whatever it is you hold dear, because the game's gotta move on, whether you like it or not. You can spend all your energy hating on riot and shit, but league is getting bigger and better everyday. And we sure as hell won't miss you here.
WoonStruck2 votesWell I hope you strongly reconsider quitting at the release of the next champion. You do nothing but spread lies and false doctrine to the boards. Yeah, I hate yasuo just as much as the next guy, but I'm not delusional enough to believe that riot would even consider for one tenth of a second that they would rework him. So please, stop trying to relive the glory days of season 1 or whatever it is you hold dear, because the game's gotta move on, whether you like it or not. You can spend all your energy hating on riot and shit, but league is getting bigger and better everyday. And we sure as hell won't miss you here.
League may be getting bigger, but it is definitely not getting better. It wouldn't have such a large amount of people who are dissatisfied with the state of the game if what you said was true.
Granted, I don't believe people should complain about champion kits. They all feel drastically different, no matter how similar kits are. One of the largest over-laps we had was lucian/graves prior to the rework, and they still felt VERY different to play. There was just little reason to pick graves over lucian because lucian just did it better.
At the end of the day, I appreciate Yasuo being a champion. His design is interesting and he brings much needed interaction to the game, bringing it a little closer to how strategic DotA is. I think people just refuse to adapt and want to keep picking champions he counters.
What's off is champion tuning and map tuning. The current balance state of champions is the most abysmal its been in a long time. Surprisingly, Yasuo isn't even close to being the largest of those issues, despite how much people want to complain about him.
Summoner's Rift is in one of the most dissatisfying states its ever been.
That doesn't strike me as better. That strikes me as developers shoving out content to scream "HEY LOOK! NEW STUFF! SPEND RP! ESPORTS!"
It strikes me as a company losing passion for the game itself and replacing it with a passion for the money it makes them.
And its a shame that the majority of the players are ignoring Riot taking this slippery slope and actually supporting them for it. Maplestory used to be massively popular, and they basically died after taking a similar turn. WoW used to be massively popular, and lost a huge following after taking a similar turn.
The people that just accept what they're doing are the ones allowing Riot to head down the same path. The people supporting them for doing it are the ones killing the game.
Creating content is good. You can praise them for that. Creating content with a blatant disregard for how it affects the game is a terrible, terrible mistake. You should not be white-knighting for Riot over that.
Kieferr1 votes"Blah blah blah aimless banter dogshit dogshit I'm killing the game"
Lol what? HAH. I'm not gonna bother engaging in intellectual conversation here. You're just regurgitating the typical boards dogma that I've already read a thousand times. Look, if you think this game is so fucking bad, then quit. Nobody is stopping you. You're not dragging me with you. Your opinion is your own, and the sheep you associate with. Same applies to me. Your opinion is no higher than mine just because it's consistent with the 0.05% of the LoL playerbase that uses the boards and constantly spews dissatisfaction without any idea why or what they're complaining about. Have a decent day sir. [slayer-jinx-wink]
WoonStruck2 votesLol what? HAH. I'm not gonna bother engaging in intellectual conversation here. You're just regurgitating the typical boards dogma that I've already read a thousand times. Look, if you think this game is so fucking bad, then quit. Nobody is stopping you. You're not dragging me with you. Your opinion is your own, and the sheep you associate with. Same applies to me. Your opinion is no higher than mine just because it's consistent with the 0.05% of the LoL playerbase that uses the boards and constantly spews dissatisfaction without any idea why or what they're complaining about. Have a decent day sir. [slayer-jinx-wink]
Saying you're not going to bother because of a specific argument is just saying you don't have one of your own. Rabid fanboys are honestly worse than the "LoL-hating sheep" you seem to be talking about.
I don't hate LoL. I don't want to see it die. And while you think everything's fine now, this game WILL die much sooner than later if it continues down this path. I did 'quit' for the time being. I even uninstalled to prevent any temptation. I will not support a company that sacrifices quality for quantity as Riot has been doing. Journal of Justice was the first step. Removing weekly balance patches was the second. Downgrading lore was the third. Blatant disregard to game health with champion releases was the fourth. Huge changes to age-old systems that upset the entire roster and cripple diversity even further. Nerfing champions that benefit from a specific item, nerfing the item, and not giving compensation buffs/reverting nerfs. Refusal to fix any problems resulting from changes they make. Power creep despite their original stance against it and still absolute refusal to address it. Mobile champions still having a higher power-budget overall than the majority of immobile ones...3 years later.
They aren't invested in the game anymore, they're invested in the money, and I will not support that and waste my time on it when I know they're slowly killing themselves.
Its happened time and time again with the most massive games. What makes you think LoL is immune when World of fucking Warcraft wasn't? Arguably the biggest game ever killed itself in the same way.
Kieferr1 votesOk, since you wanna argue so badly... All I can take away from your arguments is a strong, intense aversion to change. People fear what they do not understand, and that is likely the case with you and your emotionally torn butt-buddy whom you copy-paste all your arguments from. Downgrading lore? Did you play during the Bilgewater event? No wait no, that's just another attempt by Riot to make money and destroy the game. Disregard to game health with champion releases? Other than Tahm's extremely high base stats, every champion that's been released in 2015 have been nice additions. That's my opinion. You mean keystones? I'll be honest, we needed those. The previous masteries were nothing more than microscopic stat boosts. You probably wouldn't even notice it if your pages have been empty for the past 5 games. Sejuani is not a weak champion AT ALL. I've been playing her a lot recently and she still feels amazing. I even counter-jungle frequently with her, with much success. Again, you're just reading the bullshit you see on the boards and immediately branding it to your brain without properly experiencing/testing said changes. Mobile champions still ha- www.champion.gg. Nuff said. Invested in money... That's entirely an emotionally based accusation. Unless you work at riot and know their angenda, gtfo. I've typed more than enough. What I need you to know now is that accusing me of destroying the game is a load of fucking bullshit. You lack knowledge of the game and make emotionally based accusations to the company and me, and that's fucking dumb. As I said, feel free to quit permanently this time, season 6 is right around the corner. You won't drag me or anyone else with you, the game ain't going nowhere.
WoonStruck1 votesOk, since you wanna argue so badly... All I can take away from your arguments is a strong, intense aversion to change. People fear what they do not understand, and that is likely the case with you and your emotionally torn butt-buddy whom you copy-paste all your arguments from. Downgrading lore? Did you play during the Bilgewater event? No wait no, that's just another attempt by Riot to make money and destroy the game. Disregard to game health with champion releases? Other than Tahm's extremely high base stats, every champion that's been released in 2015 have been nice additions. That's my opinion. You mean keystones? I'll be honest, we needed those. The previous masteries were nothing more than microscopic stat boosts. You probably wouldn't even notice it if your pages have been empty for the past 5 games. Sejuani is not a weak champion AT ALL. I've been playing her a lot recently and she still feels amazing. I even counter-jungle frequently with her, with much success. Again, you're just reading the bullshit you see on the boards and immediately branding it to your brain without properly experiencing/testing said changes. Mobile champions still ha- www.champion.gg. Nuff said. Invested in money... That's entirely an emotionally based accusation. Unless you work at riot and know their angenda, gtfo. I've typed more than enough. What I need you to know now is that accusing me of destroying the game is a load of fucking bullshit. You lack knowledge of the game and make emotionally based accusations to the company and me, and that's fucking dumb. As I said, feel free to quit permanently this time, season 6 is right around the corner. You won't drag me or anyone else with you, the game ain't going nowhere.
You're saying I lack knowledge of the game when A) I'm higher rank than you, and that's with essentially no effort or commitment on my part. You have over 1000 games in ranked, comparatively B) I've been theory-crafting and testing stuff since season 1. I called Abyssal rush and DFG being over-tuned as hell before anyone thought so back in season 1 and 2. Several other similar instances. People called me bad for being ahead of the meta back then, but guess who was right. C) I'm one of the few people that's actually willing to adapt and learn. I can play my champions and I can still get ahead fine. The games just aren't fun anymore.
The Bilgewater event gave slightly better lore than the original sets of lore. And that was only to a select few champions. There are what, 10 or so champions with what can be considered decent lore now? Compared to just under 100 back in the day. Let's not forget about them removing 3 huge parts of lore that everyone loved. 4 if you include the retcon. But your bias shows, since you've only been playing since season 4 I guess.
This game is balanced around pros for the most part now. Take a look at pro picks. The majority of champions have some way to engage/disengage in the form of non-ult mobility. The fact that mobility is that influential shows that there's a decent skew of balance. Ezreal's one of the few mobile champions that's balanced properly, if that tells you anything.
Sejuani almost CAN'T be weak now. She's Amumu 2.0. She's not the only one who's suffered from being nerfed, then the core item that made them strong gets nerfed, and never getting compensation buffs/reverts. Again, you show that you're highly biased by only considering a single champion like they make or break the argument alone.
We didn't need keystones. Masteries had a huge impact on either scaling or early game. Support masteries were weak, but offense/defense were very, very strong. You not noticing them practically shows your mindset in games. You don't notice the small things that add up to being huge. Things like the 4% attackspeed and the AD mastery allowing Nasus to perfectly farm under tower without missing any CS. Without it, nope. If you took AD marks and quints on him, nope. Masteries often give the perfect amount of stats, and many people take those stats for granted because they were used to them. Besides, having keystones doesn't require us to have a shitty mastery system. That's the biggest issue. Keystones being poorly implemented and balanced is another.
As far as champion releases go, practically every rework and release, outside of Bard and Illaoi, have been irritatingly broken to the point of being 100% pick or ban even in tournies. This extends prior to 2015 as well.
My accusations are not emotionally based. Yours are.
Kieferr1 votesLOL. It's OK, let out your rage and anger! I understand you completely, nothing to hide my friend! I have no idea what you want from me or why you jumped in on my comment thread with someone else while splatering pointless nonsense that I don't give a fuck about, but I have to admire your passion and dedication to your views (like wow, the power of brainwashing and indoctrination at its finest!) Keep doing what you're doing my friend, the world needs more people like you.
WoonStruck1 votesLOL. It's OK, let out your rage and anger! I understand you completely, nothing to hide my friend! I have no idea what you want from me or why you jumped in on my comment thread with someone else while splatering pointless nonsense that I don't give a fuck about, but I have to admire your passion and dedication to your views (like wow, the power of brainwashing and indoctrination at its finest!) Keep doing what you're doing my friend, the world needs more people like you.
Who's raging? I'm stating facts. You're the one showing emotion. I responded to your rabid fanboy attitude in response to people with legitimate gripes with the direction of the game that you happen to not agree with. Not agreeing is okay. Jumping on people for it with the aggression you show is not.
Kieferr1 votesLol. Just because I was the only one in the entire boards community to have the GUTS to question, and stand up to that lying, self-serving hypocrite scum and call him out for what he truly is, makes me a fanboy? I'm not being aggressive, in fact I'm enjoying this conversation quite a lot. Judging by the sheer content of your responses, it is evident that you possess a fierce pride in defending your point of view. You just can't bear the fact that there is a side other than yours and people who disagree with you all fall under the category of "fanboy", such as me. You hold a negative view on literally every aspect of this game judging from your last response. I still don't understand why you waste time here on the boards when you could be playing right now. My best guess, as I said before, you take pride in your views and wish to exhort your views to as many others as possible in an effort to feel better about yourself/boost your ego.
WoonStruck1 votesLol. Just because I was the only one in the entire boards community to have the GUTS to question, and stand up to that lying, self-serving hypocrite scum and call him out for what he truly is, makes me a fanboy? I'm not being aggressive, in fact I'm enjoying this conversation quite a lot. Judging by the sheer content of your responses, it is evident that you possess a fierce pride in defending your point of view. You just can't bear the fact that there is a side other than yours and people who disagree with you all fall under the category of "fanboy", such as me. You hold a negative view on literally every aspect of this game judging from your last response. I still don't understand why you waste time here on the boards when you could be playing right now. My best guess, as I said before, you take pride in your views and wish to exhort your views to as many others as possible in an effort to feel better about yourself/boost your ego.
Actually, I do realize there's another side. Just your side isn't providing any argument counter to the evidence provided, which is that Riot is heading in a similar direction to other massively popular games that had a huge falling out with their playerbase. Once a game enters that decline, it almost cannot regain the momentum they previously had. The gaming market will fly past them at that point and they will no longer be a super-giant of the gaming industry.
The fact that you keep saying I'm wrong without providing any evidence that I can neither refute nor logically agree on is proof of your stance, which is a biased opinion. You're essentially ignoring my evidence because you want to believe the game is perfect the way it is, which is what makes you a bull-headed fanboy.
It isn't pride that causes me to be passionate about my argument. Its my desire to see this game continue to grow, rather than move in negative direction after negative direction while believing they're still good decisions only because they still make gains, which is solely due to the momentum they had prior. After they reach the peak and make their downturn because of it, their time in the limelight is over.
People are trying to warn Riot, and they refuse to listen.
Dinko1 votesI specifically despise Draven, because catching of his axes.