Riot's design choices aid in making this game even more toxic than it already is.

NoGanksTop··84 votes·23,682 views

The reality is this game is already going to be toxic because it's a MOBA that matches you with 4 random teammates who you will most likely never play with ever again after the game. The game is very popular and runs on a toaster meaning it is going to appeal to a wide variety of people especially little kids. There isn't much that can be done about this.

I can't even imagine actually being a new player to this game. Does this game even retain its new players? If I had to guess I would say no. I tried leveling this new account. It is literally pure cancer. Obviously you are going to get a mix of smurfs and some actual new players. Omg the abuse that these new players have to endure is literally insane. If I were new I would definitely not continue playing this game. Every game someone is a "pussy" " nig ger" or "%%% got." If they aren't saying it in the chat then it's in their clan tag or summoner name itself. Literally had one guy with KKK in his summoner name.

The problem is Riot decided to be the front runner of trying to make a competitive game some online utopia where no one trash talks and they go to great lengths to keep the chat clean. The problem is you give the trolls all the power in this game because you literally get away with anything in this game as long as you don't say anything in chat. I can literally go into a game and just troll over and over. Die 15 times a game. Do some troll build. Buy 6 tears of the goddess. Follow my jungler around stealing jungle camps. Guess what? Nothing will ever happen to you as long as you don't flame in chat and the people who troll know this. Riot never deals with many of the root problems of toxicity. They only deal and punish the symptoms. Obviously this doesn't apply to all cases. Decent people eventually become frustrated and lash out. Does it make it okay. No. Does it happen? Defiantly.

Since Riot puts so much emphasis on toxicity the community now thinks everything is toxic. You can no longer even ask your teammates to do anything without them thinking you are criticizing them and being toxic. Everyone immediately becomes defensive about EVERYTHING and if they don't start flaming then they focus the rest of the game on how they are going to report you and spend the other rest of the time trying to get everyone else to report you. All because you ask them if they can toss a ward in a bush or ask them tell them that Graves is going to keep coming top if you keep shoving and don't ward. It's gotten to the point where the chat window is useless and it is best to just mute all your teammates.

All the power is given to trolls since they can waste your time and you can't do anything about it. You are mad because you didn't get as many ganks as you wanted? You got camped because you didn't ward. Guess its time to troll now, but as long as you don't say anything it's all good, but if one person on your team says one thing because they are trying while you waste their time then they get reported and banned. The system favors people who just want to piss other people off. Had one game where we were getting stomped. A duo is fighting with some guy on the team. I'm trying to surrender because this game is 10000% over. Guy literally tells his duo in chat. "Hit no and draw the game out, I want to waste these losers time."

The matchmaking and entire MMR system is one of the biggest failures I have ever seen in online gaming. It has already been confirmed by Riot multiple times that they have algorithms in place to put players on losing streaks in with people on winning streaks. The game tries to hold you to a 50% win rate. Why? If a person plays well and is winning a bunch then you basically punish them by giving them a bunch of players on losing streaks who are typically titled or who are just outright aren't as good and deserve to fall? I believe this is what has created this whole situation where so many games feel like stomps because you have a bunch of players who deserve a higher elo mixed in with a bunch of people who deserve a lower elo creating this giant cesspool of players of various skill levels all the way from bronze-plat. This is why a lot of high elo players think that silver is the same as plat. That statement is actually becoming more and more true thanks to Riot's wonderful algorithms. This giant mixture of players of all different skill levels leads to many frustrating games. More frustration= more toxicity.

Riot also decided to make this game more team orientated meaning that the worst player on each team often has the bigger impact that the best player from each team. This leads to a frustrating experience for people who consistently do well and get constantly matched with goofballs thanks to the system talked about in the above paragraph. To make a long story sort the system does a terrible job at putting people in their real elo or at the very least makes it a huge grind. These leads to a bunch of people playing at the same elo but at drastically different skills levels.

Even from a game play perspective the balance is getting pretty awful. Way to much damage in this game. Marksmen have been broken for a few years now. Riot claims to be working on it. Takes them forever naturally. Meanwhile they release major changes to the jungle nerfing it and making the popular junglers even more popular and further alienating the weaker junglers. I could go on and on but if you search this board for 6 seconds you can find many good threads about all the major problems this game currently has with balance.

I could go on and on but I believe the major problems are the "report" culture Riot created along with their horrid matchmaking system/elo system along with their even increasing terrible design choices such as the scuttle crab changes.

142 Comments

IkOerman30 votes

What is even worse, is that when you have eg. silver MMR, but are in a bronze tier, the game actually matches you based on your MMR which is silver. So you'll be playing against silver players to get out of bronze. Why not play against other bronze players to actually be able to show you don't belong there?

Why should i be able to continuously beat silver teams to prove i dont belong in bronze? Where is the logic in that?

NoGanksTop11 votes

{quoted}

What is even worse, is that when you have eg. silver MMR, but are in a bronze tier, the game actually matches you based on your MMR which is silver. So you'll be playing against silver players to get out of bronze. Why not play against other bronze players to actually be able to show you don't belong there?

Why should i be able to continuously beat silver teams to prove i dont belong in bronze? Where is the logic in that?

I'm gold 2 on my main account. When I was gold 4 earlier in the season I would have multiple plat 4s or 5s in my games and sometimes silver 1 or 2 players. Afterwards I would check MMRs and check to see if anyone is duo. They were not. Using OP.GG I would check the plat players MMR and they would be like gold 1 MMR or normal. I would check the silver players MMR who has a sub 50% win ratio and their MMR would be normal so why are we all thrown into the same game together?

Also why is it far that a silver 1 player has to beat plat 5s to get to gold 5? Even if the silver 1 player has a crazy MMR because of a high win rate. How is that still fair? In order to get out of silver 1 you should have to "prove" that you care better than other silver 1's or gold 5's not prove you are better than some plat 5s to get to gold 5.....

AceprojectX2 votes

took me like 10 tries to get to GV, then I get banned because I started getting supports that didn't want to stick by me and I cuss them out and get banned because im the toxic one.

The only reason I made it to gold was because I had supports that did their role selflessly; then I got to deal with this boosted garbage that pay someone to play for them.

Averia5 votes

Honestly the Leagues system (the visual ranking we have overlaying MMR) is completely worthless in a competitive game. It makes the game a naturally worse experience because it casualifies the most non-casual experience in the game.

Literally by existing the League's system creates more toxicity than it solves. If Riot wanted to give more detail about when you would be in silver/gold, they should've just released a reliable visual indicator of how far you are from that rank WITH YOUR MMR, rather than the shitty LP system that currently overlays it. I think overwatch is the game that has a really good system in place but I can't really be bothered to remember because overwatch itself is the most boring competitive experience because for some reason they made the entire fucking game about teamwork.

I had one of my absolute most toxic streaks recently in the game simply because I was having random RNG determine the outcome of my Diamond promo's. I lost 8 of them. For the first time in 6-7 years I lost more than 1 promo to Diamond and it was almost always just someone not deserving the rank they had AND/OR someone smurfing.

UpDownLeftRightAB2 votes

I found the way to get around this is to actually lose...like a lot then just climb back to your previous rank, you won't have the MMR disparity anymore and you'll be facing people way below your league for a while, but it'll correct the difference in your MMR and Rank. You have to know your actual MMR though to do this.

Essentially it just allows you to climb up the ladder (The LP and Promos thing) facing people at that MMR and not MMR above that division.

rtbf906614561 votes

But the thing about that is if you deserve to be silver, you should hold your own against silver players...

saying you should only play vs bronze players to get out of bronze is akin to saying "i should be able to gain lp from playing on my smurf on my main also"

IkOerman1 votes

It actually is not.

The problem is: I can carry myself vs actual bronze players, but i cant carry myself vs actual silver players. They are of same skill, which mean my winrate would be ~50%.

Holding your own (a.k.a belonging in the tier) does not equal carrying (a.k.a not belonging in the tier).

rtbf906614561 votes

You imply that you won't have a silver team yourself...

to me it just sounds like you're out of your league

IkOerman1 votes

Dude, just take a few seconds and use your brain this time. Here goes:

{quoted}

Holding your own (a.k.a belonging in the tier) does not equal carrying (a.k.a not belonging in the tier).

If i am actually silver, and i'm matched with 4 other silvers vs 5 enemy silvers (meaning the ELO is about the same for each team, as the system is intended to do). That means i'm in my own league and can hold my own, which will mean i have about 50% chance of winning the game. Right?

Now if i was actually silver ELO (but placed in bronze), with 4 bronze players on my team vs 5 bronze players. So 5 "bronze" vs 5 bronze. Then i would be able to CARRY, means i should have > 50% winrate, if i truly dont belong in that league.

You get it? If you get matched with people from the "league you got placed in" instead of your "ELO league", then the system could easily see if you belong there or not, since you would be mostly CARRYING.

rtbf906614561 votes

the way the system was designed, is if that your ELO is higher than your rank, you gain more lp per win than you lose

even if you have a 50% wr in bronze with silver mmr, you will eventually hit silver.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

I don't think I deserve master if I can't beat master players. So why would beating diamond 1 players make me deserve to be master?

CHEAT ENGINE ssd4 votes

{quoted}

I don't think I deserve master if I can't beat master players. So why would beating diamond 1 players make me deserve to be master?

You are talking about an impossible scenario lol. You can't be better than diamond 1 and not be master material.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

You can't be master if you can't beat master though. Meaning it would be completely meaningless to keep going from D1 -> master -> D1 -> master etc.

CHEAT ENGINE ssd2 votes

{quoted}

You can't be master if you can't beat master though. Meaning it would be completely meaningless to keep going from D1 -> master -> D1 -> master etc.

Are you implying there is a difference between being better than diamond 1 and being master? Rofl

liushui4 votes

Luffy is a Yonko with a 1.5 billion berri bounty.

DarkSunSovereign2 votes

In theory you would be getting more LP per win and less per loss in that situation, not sure if it actually happens though.

Josh Sand2 votes

{quoted}

What is even worse, is that when you have eg. silver MMR, but are in a bronze tier, the game actually matches you based on your MMR which is silver. So you'll be playing against silver players to get out of bronze. Why not play against other bronze players to actually be able to show you don't belong there?

Why should i be able to continuously beat silver teams to prove i dont belong in bronze? Where is the logic in that?

On top of this, if they insist on keeping it this way, at the very least they should make you win a lot more LP and lose a lot less in these scenarios, to at least give you a chance to climb out.

Mokuto Bunshi4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iib8rR0y,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-27T13:15:27.238+0000)

It's starting to feel intentional to be honest.

https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzNYvpek.png

Your the guy a nunu made a sig for <_<

envy intensifies [sg-jinx]

BLIGHTBRINGER3 votes

Yeah, I can't thank (@A Nunu) enough. I love it! (:

Ayanami3rd12 votes

100% agreed.

Concerning MMR/Elo, the main flaw is that your MMR and therefore your visible rank does not truly reflect your skill especially in low/mid elo. It's just all about matchmaking. Nobody will ever be able to prove it, but if matchamking really was rigged, even the worse.

And yes, this makes me as a player really toxic inside. I keep it to myself, but it gets harder every day.

NoGanksTop10 votes

{quoted}

100% agreed.

Concerning MMR/Elo, the main flaw is that your MMR and therefore your visible rank does not truly reflect your skill especially in low/mid elo. It's just all about matchmaking. Nobody will ever be able to prove it, but if matchamking really was rigged, even the worse.

And yes, this makes me as a player really toxic inside. I keep it to myself, but it gets harder every day.

I feel like the system is 100% designed to work against you. Many people have always said it feels like in their promos they always get bad players. Well based on Riots system you are more likely to get bad players in your promos because when you get in your promos you have obviously been winning and are possibly even on a 3-5 game win streak. So once you hit promos it matches you with people on losing streaks because for whatever reason the system tries to keep you at a 50% win rate.

Mutingeveryone18 votes

Riots problems with LoL toxicity:

  1. Banning players who retaliate against toxic players who troll or flame.
  2. Making getting into lvl30 ranked take about a month of continuous play at the very best as opposed to just having it right out from the get go like HoN or while similarly long but not as long, lvl 20 for dota2.
  3. Only reason leveling is hell is because it takes too long to level, aswell as blind pick exist instead of just draft which means you'll get people who'll troll you because they either didn't call their role first or someone autolocked without calling anything which equals a loss most likely and less exp which means longer leveling to play the mode where you're the least likely to get trolls.
ModAcademy Kayn6 votes

1.) You're responsible for your own actions, and regardless of how righteous your rage may be, you're still making the game worse for potentially 3 other people.

Mutingeveryone15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iib8rR0y,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-05-27T18:49:42.107+0000)

1.) You're responsible for your own actions, and regardless of how righteous your rage may be, you're still making the game worse for potentially 3 other people.

Which is the fault of the person who is flaming/trolling you and potentially the other 3 people aswell. Punish the cause, not the effect.

SooFr0sty3 votes

Don't ever work in customer service or retail then, or maybe you should and learn an important skill.

Mutingeveryone12 votes

{quoted}

Don't ever work in customer service or retail then, or maybe you should and learn an important skill.

That has literally no relevance to LoL and vise versa. Also you're ignoring a huge grey area when you say things like that when referencing daily life activities in general.

SooFr0sty3 votes

The point is you need to learn how to deal with angry people and flaming them back is not the way you deal with those people.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Mutingeveryone11 votes

{quoted}

The point is you need to learn how to deal with angry people and flaming them back is not the way you deal with those people.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Neither is punishing the victims.

Smokingruby3 votes

Yes but if you retaliate are you realy just a victim anymore?

ModAcademy Kayn8 votes

In any type of work, if you have someone harassing you, you're not validated in harassing them back. Yes, it's surely much more understandable, but you'll be just as much liable to the same punishment as the guy who harassed you in the first place.

You're expected to be better than the person doing the wrong, not to be the same.

Mutingeveryone11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iib8rR0y,comment-id=0007000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-27T20:49:10.054+0000)

In any type of work, if you have someone harassing you, you're not validated in harassing them back. Yes, it's surely much more understandable, but you'll be just as much liable to the same punishment as the guy who harassed you in the first place.

You're expected to be better than the person doing the wrong, not to be the same.

Like I said that has no relevance to LoL.

ModAcademy Kayn7 votes

It doesn't matter if it has relevance to LoL, this is basic human interaction. If someone is harassing you, you turn the other cheek. You don't harass them back. It's called being the bigger person. Called being better.

Mutingeveryone11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iib8rR0y,comment-id=000700000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-27T23:06:46.955+0000)

It doesn't matter if it has relevance to LoL, this is basic human interaction. If someone is harassing you, you turn the other cheek. You don't harass them back. It's called being the bigger person. Called being better.

Actually it does since no one was talking about things outside of LoL to begin with and the fact that you're doing so already has lost you the argument, examples but examples no less are the imfamous players that were/still are perma banned(banned on site) from LoL regarding all the players they trolled or harassed who has retaliated and has not received punishments because they're not in the wrong for retaliating against toxic behavior like that. If someone calls you a piece of "s***, c** guzzling r***** who deserves to be publically executed in real life", most people are not going to "be the better person" and let that slide and are in the right to retaliate/defend themselves. If a father say beats the ever loving crap out of somebody who is molesting their child then the father is in the right to retaliate and defend their child. There are just as many examples to use against your argument as you can use against mine so lets keep it confined to LoL where it actually matters since it is the topic we're arguing in the first place and does not concern real life affairs.

ModAcademy Kayn7 votes

Okay, so let's keep it to Lol. You playing a game does not give you any right to harass anyone. Period. It doesn't matter if 'they started it', an excuse used by Kindergartners, you are expected to be the better person, and if you slip up sometimes, you're never going to get banned over one time (withholding using racial slurs.)

But if we're keeping it fully to LoL, there is no excuse to ever lose it, when something called The Mute Button exists.

Dioton1 votes

[deleted]

glkz3 votes

Somebody said it's humanly possible not to flame. Better flame that person real quick.

CepaXu2 votes

100% feel with this. I've literally been perma-banned for light cursing for emphasis (in a completely unrelated convo with an enemy player about some buffs), not even in a toxic manner, because I called for reports (once) on a guy who was actively following me around, stealing camps, cursing and harassing me. Ignored him, called for reports, ended game.

Rito's response to this was that I called for reports, which is toxic, so that perma-ban wouldn't be un-done. When you know, Riot themselves stated calling for reports is only toxic when done excessively because it's considered harassment... and they were referring to people having "bad games" on that. Not someone actively trolling. I don't really consider once as excessive, but that's just me.

And this shit is a regular occurance. I curse in day to day conversation regularly. It's normal to me. Riot treats it as bannable, and I've been punished a lot for this. But I get constantly toxic teammates that don't get punished cause they don't curse... Riot's punishment system is questionable at best. Why they ever got rid of the tribunal, I'll never know. League was MUCH less toxic back then.

glkz3 votes

Sounds like something to complain on Reddit about, so that some Rioter has to dig out the chat logs of ten matches where you wished death on the jungler who didn't gank your lane etc. Certainly nobody gets permabanned over asking for reports in one game. There's ten billion warnings before a ban.

Ranmaru6 votes

Replace Riot with blizzard and lol or league of legends with overwatch or wow

NoGanksTop3 votes

{quoted}

Replace Riot with blizzard and lol or league of legends with Overwatch or wow

I can't speak for Overwatch but I can speak for wow as I played it off and on for about 10 years. I played wow at a pretty high level and that is where you should encounter the most toxicity because you play with the more serious players. I can safely say I never had to deal with nearly as much toxicity as I do on this game. Like not even close. On wow I could also fire back a bit to a person talking smack and not have to worry about getting banned because of it. Also wow isn't really a far compassion because on wow you can pretty much leave whatever you're doing without being punished for it. On this game you're stuck in the game until it ends.

IkOerman3 votes

{quoted}

at a pretty high level and that is where you should encounter the most toxicity because you play with the more serious players.

Wrong. The toxicity is because serious players are being matched with non-serious players in league. In WoW you don't have that, as you mostly pick your own teammembers.

Toxicity is because players who actually understand the basics of the game are matched with complete fucktards going braindead, and thats an understatement.

DNFVixen4 votes

{quoted}

Replace Riot with blizzard and lol or league of legends with overwatch or wow

The problem is that we DO have blizzard's old dev! the one that ruined WoW and made the game go downhill.

BlackEyesBlue5 votes

As a player whos had 8 chat bans, and filled out 7 Riot player polls; I've been saying this for years! That the true poison of this game lies in people who troll and sabotage and treat it like THEIR game without considering their team mates.

Honestly chat can be muted, pings can be muted, trolls are just going to waste 20+ minutes of everyone's time and get off scott free. I find that FAR more innaproriate then anything I've ever had typed to me; and I've stated as such to Riot at every opportunity. But they likely won't punish the people who acctualy deserve it until it hits their profits hard enough...

Don Pasquale5 votes

And yet, you keep coming back. Again and again. For years. Which is why the MMR system is actually a giant success for them, as it's essentially an artificial impedance that ensures you need to play much longer than you otherwise would to achieve your goals.

JarI BaIgruuf3 votes

Basically you are perfect and everyone is out to get you. Toxicity is less common than you think, especially among newer players.

Xonra2 votes

[{quoted}](name=JarI BaIgruuf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iib8rR0y,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-27T16:22:25.157+0000)

Basically you are perfect and everyone is out to get you. Toxicity is less common than you think, especially among newer players.

If that's what you got out of this you 100% didn't read any of what the OP said.

Also you are flat out wrong about less common toxicity to a laughable extent. I literally just got out of a game with a Karma who surrender spammed and gave up in a winning game, flaming and threatening to report everyone for not surrendering as well. Then tried getting the enemy team to report literally all of us after in the lobby saying how toxic we were when no one but them talked the entire game.

Yeah the game is very toxic and it has gotten worse over the years cause the toxicity is mostly non-verbal and easy to get away with unless you are like 0/40 or something.

JarI BaIgruuf3 votes

Nah I read it, I just disagree (because it's incredibly false). Just because you and op have bad experiences, doesn't mean everyone does. Either you're lying or I have the luckiest matchmaking in the world, because toxicity just isn't that common. And calling everything and everyone toxic is in fact incredibly toxic.

Jungle Pennywise1 votes

I just discovered that Juggernauts have 30-50 more base AD than ADC's and AD Assassins for some reason.

The TANKS deal more damage than the dedicated carries.

If that doesn't tell you the incompetence of Riot and their disgustingly stupid balance team, I don't know what does.

Temloss3 votes

A) juggernauts aren't tanks, B) ADCs and assassins also generally build pure damage. A juggernaut will get detonated if they try that.

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