remove assassins/duskblade and hotfix them

Devilreaper XIII·Jan 20, 2018·2 votes·1,131 views

like the title says....

vs assassin = 1 can't walk into lane 2 can't farm 3 can't stand under tower 4 rushing zhonya cripples you 5 stopwatch has a single use -.- 6 evertime they oneshot you..... 7 duskblade makes them able to blind you from the flanks by destroying your wards 8 dashes out to safety after oneshotting you 9 towers are useless 10 they tank your full combo from passive to ult and live

please buff towers where they multitarget and you no longer can switch damage, AND the first hit takes 50% hp and the second hit 100% hp. first shot is warning second is dead period.

remove all CC from assassins please, put their overall defence under average so we stand a chance as well... remove truesight from duskblade.

right now assassins have high reward and no risk -.-

and for the love of god make every ability a skillshot [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

16 Comments

bbQsauçeJan 20, 20183 votes

[deleted]

PennsJan 20, 20181 votes

No, bruisers are weak except Camille and Illaoi and Jax and Fiora and in soloq Riven Rengar and Kled, assassins are fine hehe

Devilreaper XIIIJan 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

-1 for EXTREME bias...

You know assassins are GARBAGE in this meta... FREE STOPWATCH AS A RUNE is a thing.. EXHAUST is a thing... ARMOR is a thing... You can't just rush morello and DEMAND to survive an assassin's burst... "rushing zhonyas cripples you" BETTER THAN RUNNING IT DOWN MID CUZ YOU DIDN'T BUY ARMOR AIN'T IT CUH? There's a reason no one in high elo is picking assassin's right now, they're pretty bad in this stopwatch, relic shield ASS GARBAGE META

nonsense.... stopwatch only has 1 use and then it breaks.... zhonya does not give cdr zhonya does not give mana sustain zhonya does not give penetration zhonya can only be activated once every X amount of time zhonya is really expensive....

assassins can do high damage assassins can oneshot assassins have CC assassins can dash/flash/jump/shadow opt/leap assassins are beefy assassins have range assassins have defensive abilities assassins have reasonable movement speed and if they, dont they go for item 3142 assassins have truesight with item 3147 assassins have sustain with item 3146 EDIT: most assassins have no mana

zhonya is nothing compared to mobility [sg-zephyr]

assassins a.t.m completely deny you, not just farm deny, but just delete you from gameplay :/ it takes only 2 assassins to destroy 5 non assassins.... it takes 3 non assassins to take 1 assassin down [sg-ahri-1]

and yes i do want to go for morello and survive a oneshot under a useless tower so i actually get play time -.- there is way too much in an assassin's kit atm :/

and what i'm asking for is reasonable to be honest. just a simple overall def nerf on assassins, removal of CC on assassins, a tower buff, a duskblade nerf, and skillshots for every champ.

i won't deny that tanks cause too much damage, and some champions have overloaded kits like lulu and melee (non assassin) champions have too much overall defence, but assassins are way worse.

bbQsauçeJan 20, 20182 votes

[deleted]

DNFVixenJan 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

LOL... Stay low elo buddy.. Instead of understanding what you're doing wrong and trying to improve, keep complaining on the forums.. you will get better LOL...

And you should be stripped of your elo MR. Egotistical.

Zed geniusJan 20, 20182 votes

zhonya does not give cdr

Zhonya's Hourglass Stats +70 ability power +45 armor +10% cooldown reduction yikes

FOR JUSTICEJan 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifNVykyY,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-01-20T18:52:44.631+0000)

nonsense.... stopwatch only has 1 use and then it breaks.... zhonya does not give cdr zhonya does not give mana sustain zhonya does not give penetration

it does give CDR, 1 use is better then dying early on, considering assassins are feast or famine, and its supposed to be a defensive buy, hence why it doesn't give many offensive stats

also, if you're going with stopwatch rune, you're using the inspiration tree. therefore, you can also take magical footwear, and bam, ~1200 gold you save towards your zhonyas, which would be a bit less then half of its 2900 gold cost.

zhonya can only be activated once every X amount of time zhonya is really expensive....

because its free stasis. play safe for x amount of time, can stop once its up, just like flash

assassins can do high damage assassins can oneshot

called burst, but so can Annie Lux Syndra Velkoz

assassins have CC designed to lock you down for a bit to get their licks in

assassins can dash/flash/jump/shadow opt/leap

used primarily to engage or escape, but if they don't get the kill, its the guillotine

assassins are beefy

actually if you aren't Fizz or Kayn you're squishy as shit, cause to stay relevant you have to build full damage glass cannon

assassins have range

most are actually melee burst, with the only exceptions being Twitch Talon Quinn (probably a couple more tho)

assassins have defensive abilities

escapes. used primarily to dash/blink/backflip in/out, usually on a considerable cooldown.

assassins have reasonable movement speed and if they, dont they go for

which leads back to sticking to a reasonable target

assassins have truesight with

mostly for the lethality, but if you watch your map, you can see as each ward is disabled.

assassins have sustain with

fair point, but you've got item 3010 item 3027 item 3001 or if youre ad based, anything with lifesteal

EDIT: most assassins have no mana

in order to counter the squishier mages, but in order to stop complete spams, they use an energy based system instead

zhonya is nothing compared to mobility [sg-zephyr]

but catching up means nothing if I can get you to melee range, but then turn around and burst you

assassins a.t.m completely deny you, not just farm deny, but just delete you from gameplay :/

Akali Twitch Evelynn have garbo earlies pre 6, and most assasins have to wait to level 3 to even attempt a trade, and only deny you if you take really, really bad trades and/or die early on.

it takes only 2 assassins to destroy 5 non assassins....

ever met Nautilus Sion Chogath Alistar Darius Garen or every other toplane tank/bruiser to ever exist? there is a reason all assassin comps never work. tank > burst

it takes 3 non assassins to take 1 assassin down [sg-ahri-1]

if they 1v3, your coordination is just suckish. but its soloque, so that's to be expected until you get higher up.

and yes i do want to go for morello and survive a oneshot under a useless tower so i actually get play time -.-

then that's just you refusing to build in adaptation to the current matchup

Devilreaper XIIIJan 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

it does give CDR, 1 use is better then dying early on, considering assassins are feast or famine, and its supposed to be a defensive buy, hence why it doesn't give many offensive stats

zhonya takes longer to build, and we do not speak of CDR under 20% [slayer-jinx-unamused] 10% is insignificant -.-

and don't be funny, you still die early on -.- assassins delete you from the game, especially zed and talon, they destroy you whenever you come under your tower in 1 shot, when you try to farm or when you walk in lane all prior to when you have zhonya and even after zhonya., you forget it takes 120 seconds for zhonya to recharge, they get to ult you like 3 times befoe zhonya is recharged [zombie-brand-mindblown]

also, if you're going with stopwatch rune, you're using the inspiration tree. therefore, you can also take magical footwear, and bam, ~1200 gold you save towards your zhonyas, which would be a bit less then half of its 2900 gold cost.

yeah no i prefer sorcery and domination..... like most mages why do i have to be denied to build sorcery because of assassins?

because its free stasis. play safe for x amount of time, can stop once its up, just like flash

zed gets a free kill by pressing R i demand a 120 seconds cooldown on it permanent which cannot be lowered.

called burst, but so can

can't compare them, they have skillshots [zombie-brand-facepalm] and aren't as mobile, and non of them have a dash/flash/blink/shadow or jump.... the only thing i hate about them is the ult spam. which by far is more tolerable than a oneshot free kill and jump out. these mages are at least squishy and annie has to get close to kill. and these mages are useless when their abilities are on cooldown, meaning there is high reward for high risk, assassins are high reward no risk.

designed to lock you down for a bit to get their licks in

used primarily to engage or escape, but if they don't get the kill, its the guillotine

lol bs, they get away with it 9/10 times whether they kill or not. assassins should be single target and have no cc period. frankly i think assassins the most unhealthy class in league, assassins shouldn't be capable of 100-0 but instead finish of low health opponents instead, which brings more strategy and tactics to the game.

actually if you aren't or you're squishy as shit, cause to stay relevant you have to build full damage glass cannon

fizz might be the only exception to it, kayn can go darkin (tank) and still oneshot -.-

most are actually melee burst, with the only exceptions being (probably a couple more tho)

wtf are you talking about? Akali can throw a kama Ekko can throw a disc Evelynn can throw a dart Fizz can throw a shark Kassadin can throw a sphere and pulse Katarina can throw daggers Kayn reaches far with his scythe (look up blade's reach) Khazix can shoot spikes Nocturne can throw a shadow blade Shaco can throw a dagger Talon can throw daggers back and forth Zed can throw shuriken AND poke with shadow from a safe distance.

and the above are assassins placed by riot ofcourse we also have twitch, diana, yi, rengar and yasuo and they have range as well -.- diana shoots lunar and yasuo spams nado, rengar throws a net. ofcourse you gonna say yi has no range.... well yes hes the only one who has none -.- but yi is still obnoxious :/

escapes. used primarily to dash/blink/backflip in/out, usually on a considerable cooldown.

diana and yasuo have shields, yi and zed become untargetable, yi cannot be slowed down, talon/eve/twitch/rengar/kha'zix/akali can go invisible, fizz can jump twice, zed can activate shadow twice, rengar has a slowdown (net), nocturne can get rid of every opponents sight and speed up making a path, kayn can posses others and regain health, ekko and eve can rewind and gain full health back, yasuo has a knock up, evelynn has a charm and they can add item 3142 for extra movement speed, AND on top of it destroy wards item 3147 and disappear [slayer-jinx-unamused]

which leads back to sticking to a reasonable target

doesn't matter what, they AOE destroy everyone.

mostly for the lethality, but if you watch your map, you can see as each ward is disabled.

yeah cause having the ability to remove crucial sight and lay in wait in unseen brushes to oneshot is not obnoxious? supports are [slayer-jinx-unamused]

fair point, but you've got or if youre ad based, anything with lifesteal

you never played mages before? no one uses RoA except for mostly on annie, the item is expensive, takes long to build, makes you fall off damage wise, and takes a whopping 10 minutes to reach usefullness..... with annie you never 'build' RoA either just purchase it in one go after accumulating 2700 gold. morello more usefull.... catalyst of aeons is so pointless :/ 0 ap and abyssal mask is for tanks -.-

the most used mage build you will see is item 3020 item 3165 item 3151 item 3116 or item 3100 item 3135 item 3285 or item 3089

no sustain or whatsoever not that zhonya is rarely used, and only replaces rab cap/ludens echo or void staff if there is an opponent thats assassin.

in order to counter the squishier mages, but in order to stop complete spams, they use an energy based system instead

''no mana'' is a massive advantage :/ they don't have to regen just build some atk speed attack some minions and spam free abilities @.@ mages need to calculate and hold back, whereas assassins can go full out without fear early game to late -.- assassins can stay in lane longer as well, and cause massive damage with just their basic attacks, mages cannot, with the exception to annie maybe.

but catching up means nothing if I can get you to melee range, but then turn around and burst you

most mages have no means to run away so zhonya is the only defense.....

have garbo earlies pre 6, and most assasins have to wait to level 3 to even attempt a trade, and only deny you if you take really, really bad trades and/or die early on.

bs, twitch at level 2 can throw poison and press E, akali can throw her kama off the bat and spam hard.... and evelynn has whiplash -.-

ever met or every other toplane tank/bruiser to ever exist? there is a reason all assassin comps never work. tank > burst

why the fk would you face top lane bruisers/tanks or a sup tank? prior to getting fed? after you snowball as assassin you even oneshot tanks....

if they 1v3, your coordination is just suckish. but its soloque, so that's to be expected until you get higher up.

right? 1 diana R + yasuo R = death 2 aoe abilities with massive damage, and they can execute this from an brush thanks to duskblade, or under a tower thanks to riots lack of logic.... 1 yi R and 1 katarina R or etc etc you get the picture , it has nothing to do with coordination, but everything with the fact they can tower dive and aoe you to death in 0,5 seconds with just 2 ults....

then that's just you refusing to build in adaptation to the current matchup

no i refuse to cripple myself by building a specific item which by the way is the ONLY way to counter assassins, and gettin fked while building it, untill they are fed and finnally build the item i need to hope i can turn things around and make a comeback in this nightmarish snowballing meta.

i dare you to play squishy mages against assassins, or try playing an adc for a change, so much fun against assassins......

FOR JUSTICEJan 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifNVykyY,comment-id=0000000100020000,timestamp=2018-01-21T11:25:36.018+0000)

zhonya takes longer to build, and we do not speak of CDR under 20% [slayer-jinx-unamused] 10% is insignificant -.-

the morellonomicon you rush takes the same amount of time. both cost 2900 gold, but zhonyas component item armguard is a great defensive buy

and don't be funny, you still die early on -.- assassins delete you from the game, especially zed and talon, they destroy you whenever you come under your tower in 1 shot, when you try to farm or when you walk in lane all prior to when you have zhonya and even after zhonya., you forget it takes 120 seconds for zhonya to recharge, they get to ult you like 3 times befoe zhonya is recharged

don't stay in lane with half HP or less, because that's the only time they're actually that oppressive. zed's ult base rank 1 cooldown is also 120 seconds tho. talons' shadow assault Is 100 seconds, but you can take exhaust and considerably weaken their damage.

yeah no i prefer sorcery and domination..... like most mages why do i have to be denied to build sorcery because of assassins?

its not being denied, its called building into the situation. if you know damn well your not gonna win, why not adapt to make the situation more in your favor? cause I mean, for most mages, assasins are a bad matchup, because counter. if you cant bruteforce win in a 1v1, why are you gonna continue fighting?

zed gets a free kill by pressing R i demand a 120 seconds cooldown on it permanent which cannot be lowered.

base 120 seconds CD. also again, half HP vs an assassin. also if you time a stasis you negate the mark bonus damage.

can't compare them, they have skillshots [zombie-brand-facepalm]

zeds shadows are skillshots, his shurikens are skillshots, talons 3 spike thingies are skillshots, and his noxian diplomacy requires him to be fairly close in order to get the maximum effect. his ult is just a stealth that kind of hurts, because again, has to get within melee range to proc its damage on 1 target, or have to already be running away.

and aren't as mobile, and non of them have a dash/flash/blink/shadow or jump.... but notice how nobody but assasins have dash/blink/leap/shadow. its a class niche. stealth and whatnot.

the only thing i hate about them is the ult spam. then you have never seen a laugh spam of each one.

which by far is more tolerable than a oneshot free kill and jump out. I don't think oneshot means what you think it means......

these mages are at least squishy and annie has to get close to kill.

which is why assasins counter them so well

and these mages are useless when their abilities are on cooldown, meaning there is high reward for high risk, assassins are high reward no risk.

just like assasins are useless without there abilities, and I don't know how in the hell you can call velkoz or lux high risk considering they form the mid/backline. assasins blink into melee range, which is as risky as it can get.

lol bs, they get away with it 9/10 times whether they kill or not.

actually once they use a gapclose, in most cases they MUST get the kill for the reset. so if they get away, its cause you died, or let them escape.

assassins should be single target and have no cc period.

most assasins don't have anything more then a slow or soft CC, and they are single target. the main target. by design, kill a squishy high priority, then leave.

frankly i think assassins the most unhealthy class in league, assassins shouldn't be capable of 100-0 but instead finish of low health opponents instead, which brings more strategy and tactics to the game.

well I mean, the buddy system is a great strategy. if you stop roaming by yourselves and getting caught. an assassin will be much too afraid to go in. and before you say, "nah they can take on x amount of us" then go watch a couple of high elo gaes, and see foryourself why most assasins don't work.

fizz might be the only exception to it, kayn can go darkin (tank) and still oneshot -.-

wtf are you talking about? can throw a kama can throw a disc can throw a dart can throw a shark can throw a sphere and pulse can throw daggers reaches far with his scythe (look up blade's reach) can shoot spikes can throw a shadow blade can throw a dagger can throw daggers back and forth can throw shuriken AND poke with shadow from a safe distance.

I don't think range means what you think it means either, lol.

akali has to basic attack the target to proc the bonus damage. ekko disc dosent actually hurt that bad, let alone just like fizz shark, its easily sidestepped because they travel slower then my grandma with arthritis. also fizz ult is based off of distance traveled, so if he managed to land a max range ult on you, ya probably deserved it. you literally just named 2 ranged abilities in kassadins kit, despite ignoring how much they cost to justify the damage in order to prevent spams. kaynes scythe can also be sidestepped, and its used for the knock up, nothing more when hes in bruiser form, and only lets him take another action in his blue form with slightly extended range. khazix spikes is his jump, so again, for a ranged ability, he has to commit for the kill and risk not being able to jump back out. nocturnes is used for the black trail plus being able to gapclose on the target, and hes even classed as a diver, hes built to towerdive. shaco is obnoxious, but in order to utilize his passive he has to basic attack his target from behind, meaning melee range. talons daggers are easily dodged too, and only actually hurt if you let the three things around your champ proc. zeds shadows do their own set or reduced damage if you get hit by the same shadow, and just like katarina, can be extremely telegraphed because you can see where they will end up.

and the above are assassins placed by riot ofcourse we also have twitch, diana, yi, rengar and yasuo and they have range as well -.-

tbh, twitch is the first ranged assassin you actually got right, because the rest require you to have some degree of melee interactions. yi is garbo early, will do nothing but powerfarm, Diana is also melee burst, yasuo's shield is broken by any damage, including basic attacks. rengar is a god in low elo, because nobody knows the buddy system.

diana shoots lunar and yasuo spams nado, rengar throws a net. lunar is a way to get melee burst off, yasuo can only hold his tornado ten seconds and rengars net IS a skillshot.

ofcourse you gonna say yi has no range.... well yes hes the only one who has none -.- but yi is still obnoxious :/

diana and yasuo have shields, yi and zed become untargetable, yi cannot be slowed down, see above for Diana and yasuo

ran out of space, will reply with the rest in a sec

FOR JUSTICEJan 21, 20181 votes

talon/eve/twitch/rengar/kha'zix/akali can go invisible,

camoflauge actually, all revealed by control wards or sweepers akali and talon go truly invisible though, but even then, its a pretty stagnant space they can do so.

fizz can jump twice, zed can activate shadow twice,

fizz costs 1/3 of his mana bar and can only use it for an engage or escape, can do much pre level 3, zed activating his shadow again teleports him back

rengar has a slowdown (net),

skillshot, can be missed

nocturne can get rid of every opponents sight and speed up making a path,

only his ult causes nearsightedness

kayn can posses others and regain health,

only bruiser kayne gains ability based healing

ekko and eve can rewind and gain full health back,

ekkos is an entire ability, but so can zilean evvelyn requires her to be out of combat

yasuo has a knock up, evelynn has a charm and they can add for extra movement speed, AND on top of it destroy wards and disappear [slayer-jinx-unamused]

evvelyns charm has to cook and plainly tells you where she is. yasuo's knockup only lasts 10 seconds before he has to burn it, and without it, he cant ult. duskblade only disables them. you can go ahead and not facecheck brushes with disabled wards.

doesn't matter what, they AOE destroy everyone.

not a single assassin has an AOE assassination, or assassination potential on more then 2 (tops) targets

yeah cause having the ability to remove crucial sight and lay in wait in unseen brushes to oneshot is not obnoxious?

that's your problem facechecking the brush. don't walk near disabled wards.

you never played mages before? no one uses RoA except for mostly on annie, the item is expensive, takes long to build, makes you fall off damage wise, and takes a whopping 10 minutes to reach usefullness..... with annie you never 'build' RoA either just purchase it in one go after accumulating 2700 gold.

but nonetheless its a defensive buy, but there are others too. take item 3102

morello more usefull....

but the problem is, its an offensive buy. if you clearly didn't win your lane, why are you building to fight?

catalyst of aeons is so pointless :/ 0 ap

catalyst is free sustain. you don't always need AP before you call it pointless.

and abyssal mask is for tanks -.-

annie can build it too lol

the most used mage build you will see is or or

no sustain or whatsoever

because that's a damage build, not a defensive one. also, scepter also adds HP, which makes you slightly tankier.

not that zhonya is rarely used, and only replaces rab cap/ludens echo or void staff if there is an opponent thats assassin.

''no mana'' is a massive advantage :/ they don't have to regen just build some atk speed attack some minions and spam free abilities @.@ mages need to calculate and hold back, whereas assassins can go full out without fear early game to late -.-

actually, unlike assasins, a mages mana pool can actually grow, an energy pool is hard capped, most at 200. and basic attacks or attack speed don't make it regen faster. I don't know where you got that from.

assassins can stay in lane longer as well, and cause massive damage with just their basic attacks, mages cannot, with the exception to annie maybe.

annies basic attacks don't hurt that bad, and even then, assasins have one of the lowest base health pools.

most mages have no means to run away so zhonya is the only defense.....

ziggs w, lux root,

bs, twitch at level 2 can throw poison and press E

he oonly wins if you are dumb enough to fight an extended trade for him to stack it.

akali can throw her kama off the bat and spam hard....

requires melee range, and if you think this is true, you've never played akali

why the fk would you face top lane bruisers/tanks or a sup tank? prior to getting fed? after you snowball as assassin you even oneshot tanks....

again, I don't think oneshot means what you think it means. getting full combed =/= oneshot. also please, show me recorded proof of an assassin fully ONESHOTTING a full HP tank. ill wait.

right? 1 diana R + yasuo R = death 2 aoe abilities with massive damage, and they can execute this from an brush thanks to duskblade, or under a tower thanks to riots lack of logic.... 1 yi R and 1 katarina R or etc etc you get the picture , it has nothing to do with coordination, but everything with the fact they can tower dive and aoe you to death in 0,5 seconds with just 2 ults....

katarinas is a channeled ability, so any CC will stop it. any CC on yi and hes too squishy to survive anything.

no i refuse to cripple myself by building a specific item which by the way is the ONLY way to counter assassins, and gettin fked while building it, untill they are fed and finnally build the item i need to hope i can turn things around and make a comeback in this nightmarish snowballing meta.

if you think building adaptively is crippling yourself, then ill gladly take the freelo your donating lul

i dare you to play squishy mages against assassins, or try playing an adc for a change, so much fun against assassins......

its their job to assassinate the ADC, but I am a midlane main, so yeah, I do this regularly.

I play lux ziggs annie and velkoz actually.

Devilreaper XIIIJan 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

camoflauge actually, all revealed by control wards or sweepers akali and talon go truly invisible though, but even then, its a pretty stagnant space they can do so.

doesn't matter, they rarely get caught or use duskblade....

fizz costs 1/3 of his mana bar and can only use it for an engage or escape, can do much pre level 3, zed activating his shadow again teleports him back

if you build fizz ad..... and regarding zed, that was my point.

skillshot, can be missed

your point being?

only his ult causes nearsightedness

and?

only bruiser kayne gains ability based healing

coughpossesioncough

ekkos is an entire ability, but so can zilean evvelyn requires her to be out of combat

let me rephrase that, ekko and evelynn gain back full health and rewind themselves to a previous position to escape. zilean cannot do that.....

evvelyns charm has to cook and plainly tells you where she is. yasuo's knockup only lasts 10 seconds before he has to burn it, and without it, he cant ult. duskblade only disables them. you can go ahead and not facecheck brushes with disabled wards.

no charm does not tell you where she is..... all you know is that shes in proximity. yasuo can spam his nado, its not like it has an long cd -.- and you think they will leave wards standing?

not a single assassin has an AOE assassination, or assassination potential on more then 2 (tops) targets

Katarina Diana MasterYi Yasuo [zombie-brand-mindblown]

that's your problem facechecking the brush. don't walk near disabled wards.

lol ofcourse no one walks near disabled wards -.- they remove the ward and remain there for like 5 minutes, since they know you gotta ward as support.... supports are [slayer-jinx-unamused]

but nonetheless its a defensive buy, but there are others too. take

[zombie-brand-facepalm] useless item unless you are tank.

but the problem is, its an offensive buy. if you clearly didn't win your lane, why are you building to fight?

did you ever play mage? if you aren't a tank as mage, you can't build defensive -.-

catalyst is free sustain. you don't always need AP before you call it pointless.

[zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm] tactical faceplam no catalyst cost gold... its not free and second yes you do need to keep up AP because mages don't proc basic attacks.... no or low ap = no damage, ap does not work teh same way as ad [zombie-brand-mindblown]

annie can build it too lol

........ because annie builds a somewhat tankier build.... she needs to get in melee range. not that it helps.... since tank mages are stil squishy with the exception to actual tanks based on ap/other source like vladimir or maokai.

because that's a damage build, not a defensive one. also, scepter also adds HP, which makes you slightly tankier.

no health doesn't make you tankier, it makes it so you might survive an extra ability or AA.... and rylai's main purpose is to cause damage on/and slow down with liandry.

actually, unlike assasins, a mages mana pool can actually grow, an energy pool is hard capped, most at 200. and basic attacks or attack speed don't make it regen faster. I don't know where you got that from.

energy regenerates 10 per second, which is way faster than mana regen. and they get a flat amount of energy back proccing abilities.

but yeah my bad .-. [zombie-brand-facepalm] i confused energy with fury XD obviously energy goes by abilities .-.

annies basic attacks don't hurt that bad, and even then, assasins have one of the lowest base health pools.

thats not what i meant. i meant annie can stay in lane longer than the average mage. actually lowest base health pools are mages and marksmen not assassins.

ziggs w, lux root,

i meant no dash/flash/blink or jump. lux her snare is not an escape ability -.-

he oonly wins if you are dumb enough to fight an extended trade for him to stack it.

the pool slows down....

requires melee range, and if you think this is true, you've never played akali

600 units is not melee range....

again, I don't think oneshot means what you think it means. getting full combed =/= oneshot. also please, show me recorded proof of an assassin fully ONESHOTTING a full HP tank. ill wait.

after snowballing they can.....

katarinas is a channeled ability, so any CC will stop it. any CC on yi and hes too squishy to survive anything.

yi becomes untargettable, and katarina kills too fast to be cced.....

if you think building adaptively is crippling yourself, then ill gladly take the freelo your donating lul

you never played mages that much is obvious O.o you get destroyed while building zhonya... so when you have zhonya you already died several times [zombie-brand-clap]

its their job to assassinate the ADC, but I am a midlane main, so yeah, I do this regularly.

I play lux ziggs annie and velkoz actually.

lol stop trying to be funny^^

Devilreaper XIIIJan 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the morellonomicon you rush takes the same amount of time. both cost 2900 gold, but zhonyas component item armguard is a great defensive buy

no it does not.... cheapest item for zhonya is armor which is useless on a mage.... cheapest item on morello is mana crystal which is somewhat more usefull... for morello you need to buy 6 items for zhonya 7 learn to count.

don't stay in lane with half HP or less, because that's the only time they're actually that oppressive. zed's ult base rank 1 cooldown is also 120 seconds tho. talons' shadow assault Is 100 seconds, but you can take exhaust and considerably weaken their damage.

who said anything about half hp? i'm talking full hp -.- yes because everyone on midlane takes exhaust..... exhaust doesn't work on assassins at all.... try targetting an untargettable zed, talon, yi, rengar, evelynn, fizz etc [zombie-brand-mindblown]

its not being denied, its called building into the situation. if you know damn well your not gonna win, why not adapt to make the situation more in your favor? cause I mean, for most mages, assasins are a bad matchup, because counter. if you cant bruteforce win in a 1v1, why are you gonna continue fighting?

why the fk would i change my runes to adapt to assassins? this makes mages weak against all other champions -.- its crippling and only counters assassins.... so YES its being denied, especially since there are at least 2 assassins per match.

base 120 seconds CD. also again, half HP vs an assassin. also if you time a stasis you negate the mark bonus damage.

half hp what? wtf has that got to do with this? you get destroyed with 100% hp.... and you have cdr in runes levels and items..... you won't get any bonus damage when you don't get hit at all...

zeds shadows are skillshots, his shurikens are skillshots, talons 3 spike thingies are skillshots, and his noxian diplomacy requires him to be fairly close in order to get the maximum effect. his ult is just a stealth that kind of hurts, because again, has to get within melee range to proc its damage on 1 target, or have to already be running away. but notice how nobody but assasins have dash/blink/leap/shadow. its a class niche. stealth and whatnot. then you have never seen a laugh spam of each one. I don't think oneshot means what you think it means......

zeds melee aoe from his shadow is hardly a skill shot.... it doesn't get shot, its an close range ability that can't miss like his ult. you have to quess which way talon goes..... and again talons ult is not an skillshot but a close proximity ability -.- you can sidestep skillshots, you can't sidestep talon..... ezreal has blink.... tristana/xayah have jump, and they are not assassins. going from 100-0 in 1 ability......

which is why assasins counter them so well

because they are squishy? i wouldn't call that a counter.... assassins OS anyone including tanks -.- its by all means a horrible mechanic that shouldve never been implemented, you are just standing there with 100% hp and out of nowhere a braindead turd presses a button and destroys you in 0,5 seconds, leaving you without any reaction time, and worst this is also done under the useless tower.

just like assasins are useless without there abilities, and I don't know how in the hell you can call velkoz or lux high risk considering they form the mid/backline. assasins blink into melee range, which is as risky as it can get.

because neither lux nor velkoz have mobility? if the opponent gets close they are dead..... unless a miracle happens.

and no assassins aren't useless without abilities.... they have AD + AS = basic attacks empowering.

zed can activate his shadows twice.... talon can jump over walls and go invisible rengar just jumps from brush to brush evelynn/ekko go back to a unkown previous place etc 0 risk high reward and besides why in the world would they want to run? they kill anyways...... no one to run from [slayer-jinx-unamused]

actually once they use a gapclose, in most cases they MUST get the kill for the reset. so if they get away, its cause you died, or let them escape.

and you obvisouly did not read what i wrote about defensive abilities.... the dashing, flashing, blinking and jumping isn't all assassins can do.

most assasins don't have anything more then a slow or soft CC, and they are single target. the main target. by design, kill a squishy high priority, then leave.

evelynn has charm ekko has stun AND slow diana has an vacuum kassadin has an stun shaco has fear nocturne has fear and AOE nearsight kayn has knock up fizz has knock up

in what possible way are these soft CC? out of 12 official assassins 7 of them have hard CC

4 of hem have soft CC rengar/kha'zix/akali/talon/zed have slow which is soft cc

only katarina has no CC

riot made it way too easy for assassins to kill, i mean a braindead person could play assassin....

well I mean, the buddy system is a great strategy. if you stop roaming by yourselves and getting caught. an assassin will be much too afraid to go in. and before you say, "nah they can take on x amount of us" then go watch a couple of high elo gaes, and see foryourself why most assasins don't work.

who said anything about roaming? its assassins that roam to lanes and towerdive you to death in 0,5 seconds with an single R. yeah because a support with an marksman are so scary when they ward a brush .o. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

I don't think range means what you think it means either, lol.

akali has to basic attack the target to proc the bonus damage. ekko disc dosent actually hurt that bad, let alone just like fizz shark, its easily sidestepped because they travel slower then my grandma with arthritis. also fizz ult is based off of distance traveled, so if he managed to land a max range ult on you, ya probably deserved it. you literally just named 2 ranged abilities in kassadins kit, despite ignoring how much they cost to justify the damage in order to prevent spams. kaynes scythe can also be sidestepped, and its used for the knock up, nothing more when hes in bruiser form, and only lets him take another action in his blue form with slightly extended range. khazix spikes is his jump, so again, for a ranged ability, he has to commit for the kill and risk not being able to jump back out. nocturnes is used for the black trail plus being able to gapclose on the target, and hes even classed as a diver, hes built to towerdive. shaco is obnoxious, but in order to utilize his passive he has to basic attack his target from behind, meaning melee range. talons daggers are easily dodged too, and only actually hurt if you let the three things around your champ proc. zeds shadows do their own set or reduced damage if you get hit by the same shadow, and just like katarina, can be extremely telegraphed because you can see where they will end up.

anything from and above 300 units is ranged....

you don't get it do you? akali can poke for an unlimited amount of time.... she doesn't care about bonus damage, unless she can oneshot you with it [zombie-brand-clap] its not an skillshot -.- which makes it so freaking op....

if ekko disc doesn't hurt ... they are building ekko wrong.... [zombie-brand-facepalm] its not the initial shot, its the fast pull back of ekko disc that does the damage.... fizz shark needs to be timed properly yes. just because they can be sidestepped doesn't make it non range [zombie-brand-mindblown] the cost doesn't matter either RANGE IS RANGE period.

the problem with shaco players is that they build him AD, you are dead wrong shaco can put boxes and throw a dagger in someone's back and send a clone.... all ap damage and no need to get close in melee range [sg-ahri-1]

lol katarina doesn't damage using bouncing daggers [sg-kiko] she uses them to get close with her massive AOE ult [sg-ahri-1]

tbh, twitch is the first ranged assassin you actually got right, because the rest require you to have some degree of melee interactions. yi is garbo early, will do nothing but powerfarm, Diana is also melee burst, yasuo's shield is broken by any damage, including basic attacks. rengar is a god in low elo, because nobody knows the buddy system. lunar is a way to get melee burst off, yasuo can only hold his tornado ten seconds and rengars net IS a skillshot. see above for Diana and yasuo

ran out of space, will reply with the rest in a sec

you don't understand what range is -.-

DIANA is FULL AP...... yasuo still blocks damage with 2 shields..... rengar OS anyone from a brush be it low or be it high elo... buddy system does not work he will just go back in brush and do it all over again..... the only mistake people make in low elo is not using this ------> item 2057 it doesn't matter if rengar his net is an skillshot... its still ranged and does damage.... same with diana and lunar and yasuo and nado + ult, yasuo spams his nado -.- who cares he can only hold it ten seconds.

DNFVixenJan 20, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifNVykyY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-20T18:08:28.096+0000)

like the title says....

vs assassin = 1 can't walk into lane 2 can't farm 3 can't stand under tower 4 rushing zhonya cripples you 5 stopwatch has a single use -.- 6 evertime they oneshot you..... 7 duskblade makes them able to blind you from the flanks by destroying your wards 8 dashes out to safety after oneshotting you 9 towers are useless 10 they tank your full combo from passive to ult and live

please buff towers where they multitarget and you no longer can switch damage, AND the first hit takes 50% hp and the second hit 100% hp. first shot is warning second is dead period.

remove all CC from assassins please, put their overall defence under average so we stand a chance as well... remove truesight from duskblade.

right now assassins have high reward and no risk -.-

and for the love of god make every ability a skillshot [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

The problem isn't Assassins or Duskblade itself, the problem is LEATHALITY

Leathality is the core of the problem, leathality should never have been introduced. Due to leathality a huge part of the games stratigic element was removed, early game and lategame champions that scale off AD started to shredding in the early game and just scale. Due to leathality champions that are strong early and fall of late instead just scaled, resistances started to not matter near as much, by doing so people didn't have to think about the early or lategame aspect of a champion unless they are building AP. A diamond rank toplaner made a HUGE post all about the subject and he explains all the cons about leathality a lot better and trust me they HEAVILY outweigh the pros of leathality. I will forever argue that armorpen should have stayed the main way to penetrate armor and not terrible idea that leathality was and is.

Leathality is what enables champions to oneshot VERY early in the game.

I have not spent a dime on league since the introduction of leathality and I will forever refuse to till leathality is gone.

Also bruisers are all but extinct due to leathality shreading through 1-2 armor items EASILY.

Devilreaper XIIIJan 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentle Lynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifNVykyY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-20T18:58:27.885+0000)

The problem isn't Assassins or Duskblade itself, the problem is LEATHALITY

Leathality is the core of the problem, leathality should never have been introduced. Due to leathality a huge part of the games stratigic element was removed, early game and lategame champions that scale off AD started to shredding in the early game and just scale. Due to leathality champions that are strong early and fall of late instead just scaled, resistances started to not matter near as much, by doing so people didn't have to think about the early or lategame aspect of a champion unless they are building AP. A diamond rank toplaner made a HUGE post all about the subject and he explains all the cons about leathality a lot better and trust me they HEAVILY outweigh the pros of leathality. I will forever argue that armorpen should have stayed the main way to penetrate armor and not terrible idea that leathality was and is.

Leathality is what enables champions to oneshot VERY early in the game.

I have not spent a dime on league since the introduction of leathality and I will forever refuse to till leathality is gone.

Also bruisers are all but extinct due to leathality shreading through 1-2 armor items EASILY.

its not lethality thats the problem, its the 300 bonus damage the 99% slowdown and the truesight :/ assassins get everything in 1 item [zombie-brand-facepalm] and assassins ad stat need to be lowered or ad stat growth is too much, i went talon tank once in aram, i jested and asked my team what class talon was and they said tank, so i trolled and went full tank, my team never complained, the worst and most disturbing part was, that i managed to do damage and kill building full tank -.-