I never actually realized but their is probably only 1 ability that defends towers.

Cowseed··69 votes·3,868 views

And it's on the windbag lady as far as I know - Janna .

We have champs who have damage amplifiers on towers MissFortune Ziggs Tristana We have objectives that give extra damage and seiging: Rift, Infernal Drake, Mountain Drake, Baron We have a whole BUNCH of items items that give extra damage on towers: item 3060 item 3057 items item 3094 item 3087 (not too sure about shiv though) Items that help with split pushing item 3078 item 3074 item 3748 item 3512

Yet the only defensive ability is on one single support that also, ironically, helps their adc snowball arguably better than other supports.

This could probably be adding to the reason late game champs suck right now. Zeal was made cheaper as well as infinity edge and essense reaver were also made cheaper making the class made to excel at tower shredding late game do it a lot earlier. Towers never got weaker. It's just that everything got too good at killing them coupled with the abundance of things that can kill them to the point were some tower killing/seiging items become obsolete item 3512 item 3060. Why would anyone buy these when you can just secure rift herald and do a better job than both these items combined and for free without taking item slots other than the trinket slot for a brief period.

Then we have all these runs and masteries that also add to damage.

TL;DR masteries, runes, items, champions, and neutral objectives all help killing towers yet the only thing that can help them survive is one ability on one champion that is played in only one role. Also I don't recall towers ever getting updated to keep up with all this.

Thoughts? Correct me if I'm wrong about anything.

Edit: Also why not make a summoner spell that can shield or maybe even heal towers. Just a thought.

Edit 2: As another guy pointed out BardBraum and Yasuo can also has an ability that helps protect towers.

Edit 3: Never Expected this to reach the front page. Thanks for reading this little ol' thread o' mine :D

73 Comments

Shuyin17836 votes

In this entire post you didn't mention item 3056. Feelsbadman.

Tahminatrix 17 votes

{quoted}

In this entire post you didn't mention item 3056. Feelsbadman.

Cause who cares if tower is shooting you, fights are too fast for towers to help, its not that towers are bad its that everyone does too much damage..if towers were like extremely tanky ad carries and minions were like barons then this game would be the complete opposite extreme of what it is now.

masterdomlo5 votes

tbh i only wanna say i dived an adc(i think) and took 10 tower shot as garen and still made it out alive. soooooo you dont needitem 3056. this tells u the item is a waste of gold atm

BobaFlautist16 votes

To be fair, wave clear is even better at defending towers than it is at threatening them.

And the way you defend towers with your abilities is by threatening kill pressure on whomever is attacking them. If your team has good wave management on the macro level (not letting big waves build up at undefended towers) and has enough map control and fighting power to ci test the enemy team's movements, then defending towers isn't an issue.

The problem isn't that there are too many tools to aggress towers rather than defend them (which has always been the case), the problem is that towers are too fragile to survive even the most basic, unempowered autos from a split-pushing tank with a semi-sizeable wave.

Cowseed4 votes

I get what your saying but on the kill pressure thing. Lots of times I see people losing lane and stay undertower. Only to get dove and they die pretty effortlessly. I'm talking about a lane thing here.

And the case with many splitpushers nowadays is when they do splitpush and reach the tower with in 2-5 secods the tower loses half it's healt. Towers just feel like their getting bursted now in some cases.

But not dissagreeing with your conclusion though. Towers don't have to get an active form of defense like a shield or something. They would probably do just fine with better raw stats.

Though I was suggesting the actives for late game champs that can do little to nothing against snowbally teams.

Sire Hippington1 votes

To be fair, RANGED wave clear is even better at defending towers than it is at threatening them.

Sorry, needed to fix that. Melee ranged waveclear either comes in tio late and allows the enemie carry to already chip away on the tower, or it gets you in a damn dangerous spot vs a siegeing team.

Sujiren14 votes

I wish Heimer could repair turrets, I think he used to be able to.

hhaavviikk12 votes

{quoted}

I wish Heimer could repair turrets, I think he used to be able to.

repaired them with his passive and damaged them with his grenade, he was a nightmare back then lol

Baron Von Bangin1 votes

Ehhhh, not really a nightmare. Heim was so undertuned his passive wasn't really an issue.

hhaavviikk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Von Bangin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iTHeATz9,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-08-30T20:28:56.418+0000)

Ehhhh, not really a nightmare. Heim was so undertuned his passive wasn't really an issue.

but his grenade back then was, he walked a bit forwards, tossed grenade on your tower to damage it and swaggered back to his turrets so you can't do anything

Eedat9 votes

Bard ult

Cowseed2 votes

Forgot about that dude. Noted

abca986 votes

And the funny thing is that considering the current circlejerking at the boards Janna will probably lose it.

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

Kinda like how they took minion shielding from Lulu. I miss being able to screw with an enemy ADC's farming.

morris11 votes

Same with Soraka. They probably removed it so people would stop misclicking minions, but I miss healing Tibbers and Heimer turrets. And if this didn't happen, I bet you could heal Rift Herald too.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

What galls me is that I can still misclick minions since I can still place Pix on an ally minion even though it does nothing. It's purely there for comboing with her Q but I'd rather they just remove it entirely for ally minions.

morris12 votes

Once upon a time I used to max Q first and feel like I was rewarded for landing skillshots from weird angles but now I guess Lulu's a shield bot like all other enchanters.

I suck at Jhin1 votes

Gangplank killing his own minions so enemy can't cs lmao : ^)

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

{quoted}

And the funny thing is that considering the current circlejerking at the boards Janna will probably lose it.

The circlejerk is from support mains pretending she is perfectly fine, plus nobody mentions that as being the problem, they could buff that I wouldn't care, as long as they nerf other things.

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

I remember hearing, once, of a single summoner spell that affected turrets. It existed in s1/s2, and was removed after it started becoming more common than flash is now.

ArbiterOfTruth2 votes

Yep it was Fortify made your towers invincible and a boost to attack speed.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Yeah. From what I understand, it was toxic as fuck. Horrible to fight.

Ariel the Cruel7 votes

It was back before Riot decided that offense should out-scale defense and Turtling until 70 minutes was a thing in LCS top tier Play. People think games are boring now? "Ward Cheering" was a thing back then.

Automated Riven3 votes

somedays I miss ward cheering :( not often tho

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

I'm afraid to ask what "Ward Cheering" is...But...My curiosity outweighs my common sense.

SSJTribe2 votes

Just people at LCS matches cheering when a ward was killed because it was the only thing actually going on.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Dear god. That's bad. That sounds like it was boring beyond belief...

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

It really was. That's why Riot started adding all the snowball and anti-turtle mechanics.

(Side note: Back then supports maintained enough wards to completely dispel the fog of War. And Phreak Shout-casters missed most kills. XD)

ForeverLaxx1 votes

It was intended to be our version of Dota's fortify, which is only of particular use against split pushing (something Riot keeps trying to stamp out of League) and is only balanced because it can only be used once and has a long recharge. Since it was a summoner spell, all 5 players could take it and that lead to artificially extended games that made League very boring to both watch and play.

I'm glad that iteration of the effect is gone, though I wouldn't be adverse to a more direct mimicry of Dota's fortify where there's a button on the UI that anyone can use that goes on cooldown for everyone if someone uses it. But then Dota isn't deathly afraid of people "trolling" the game by wasting team-wide cooldowns.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Well, the bigg issue with it was that if 5 man took it, you hardly had an window to do anything vs towers. It was impossible to balance it in a way that felt good to use as a single player without beeing opressive when used by a full team.

EvilMerodach1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. From what I understand, it was toxic as fuck. Horrible to fight.

Problem was it was global and instant. You could possibly even get a kill out of it while in base buying things. (Or possibly while dead? I'm thinking you may have been able to use it while dead.) And whatever dmg the tower did to enemies while fortified counted as your dmg too, so you got kill credit/exp for it, not just execute.

IMO they should have reworked it to closer to a reverse item 3056, where it would only work on the nearest friendly tower, and only when you were within X range of it. It really was pretty fun to play Rammus top and just wait for people to dive you and taunt/fortify and watch them explode in their own stupidity.

LordBahamutXVI4 votes

This made me log in to comment FUCKIN BRING BACK FORTIFY GOD Imagine every single tower becoming invincible and increasing their DPS. TOWER DIVE NOW HUH?

LadyRenly3 votes

shell probably get karmad and lose that option entirely

Poske3 votes

How many times I have to say zzrot is way more efficient Inhibitor wave depush replacement

Mentioning it as pushing tool is insulting to an item

I suck at Jhin1 votes

you drop it in midlane that is 80% of the time (number outta my ass cus I'm salty, stfu) at the Tier2 turret and midlane pretty much never goes down.

Enemies can't ever kill it unless they dive just to take it out, and it works way better than using like first 3 voidlings for a single turret and you're right.

Poske1 votes

its better of in a sidelanes then mid but yeah

AgeOfTheMage3 votes

I lmao'd when you said "windbag lady"

Quepha2 votes

Also every waveclear ability in the game

CM Calgar2 votes

these guys can defend turrets, Braum , Yasuo .

GrReaper962 votes

Lets not forget Pantheon can block an entire turret shot. Twice if he uses W too.

DarkRitual2 votes

Three if you set it up right. Get one stack short of passive. Use W on something. Get into turret range. Block one. Q a minion for the last passive stack to gain another block. W a minion to regain shield.

I suck at Jhin2 votes

They did get nerfed actually.

Remember shields on T2 turrets and fucking lazers on T3 and T4? Those were the REAL turrets, now we just have paper shits that spam laughable damage balls at enemies just to tickle them a bit.

I don't get why they had to revert all that then make it fucking worse by bringing in herald that literally oneshots towers.

Also there was a summoner spell, that buffs towers.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Herald can't take out more than half a turret's health, and that's only on the charge, and only if at full health.

Half health on one attack (that you can't repeat against that target) is not one-shotting anything by any means.

I suck at Jhin1 votes

Most of the time, if game is pretty much even, you use herald to fuck up first turret, most of the time all turrets in lanes are somewhat damaged, herald comes in = boom, turret didn't even exist here to begin with.

If he gets to second turret it gets like 50-60% of it's hp deleted, you poke it few more times and it's down, pls tell me more how it's insignificant.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

I never said it was insignificant. I said it wasn't a one-shot. It still isn't. If the target is at half health, and you kill them in one ability, that's not what one-shotting is. It's finishing off a low(er) health target.

And let's not forget the massive damage Herald does to itself. It loses about half its health. The next charge does a maximum of 1/4 the turret's health - and that's damage I can reliably do as a goddamned Nasus.

bloodybadger12 votes

i think you just discovered why janna is secretly op!

Shahamut1 votes

Of you are going to be overly general on items that help kill towers, you can list every item that grants ad or ap.

Banner, Zz'rot, Ohmwrecker are the only items who's design is meant specifically for taking towers.

Now, that's still 3 more items than defensive ones. And yeah, mountain dragon and rift and baron and a slew of champion abilities skews the balance a lot further.

I don't think the state of towers is as bad as some people make it out to be, but it is interesting at how there is literally nothing to help defend them, although one could make an argument for zz'rot having defensive uses.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

As OP said, the only thing that specifically defends turrets is Janna's E. However, you can make a case for Yasuo and Braum's W's, Banner, and Zz'rot.

Shahamut1 votes

right

Athenes Lulu1 votes

I think people underestimate how well I can defend towers. Maybe not against 5 people, but good enough for an ADC and support to give up with my existence.

Maybe we should make Pix be able to shield towers and I can aim from there too, sounds fun :^)

Nah, I get your main point, though more direct defense mechanisms for towers sounds like a great idea.

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