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The thing I hate most about AD right now..

Tormentula·Apr 22, 2018·1 votes·834 views

- another life for AD divers or hard to kill ADCs - basically an anti-burst against AP - An anti-CC but specifically is an MR item, and build path only leads to an AD item. - Another hexdrinker-passive item but rather then being an AP counterpart its option #2 to survive burst and dives for bruiser ADs. - Sustain, and anti-burst for more time to heal/get peel.

...and what do we get as AP?

- a self stun that helps only if you're expecting them to jump back line straight for you/stop zed from tower diving you. Its good don't get me wrong, just saying that this item takes skill and decision making which can lead to bad situations using it while the AD ones pretty much autopilot without actives usually, and there are times where buying it just isn't a good idea even if you do want to be more defensive. A behind zed is going go benefit way more with hexdrinker then a behind AP with a seeker's armguard. - a one time spell shield but also interfers with other stronger AP purchases and more often then not competes with zhonyas in most situations. 3000g to block 1 luden's passive proc on a minion or a jungler smite, let that sink in. Pretty much only good against a blitz/thresh/malphite.. - Basically just a ryze/cassiopeia item now because the all in AP champs either don't use mana , are junglers and sitting on a catalyst is a gold sink there , or can't benefit from its passive(s) that significantly enough to warrant purchasing it without gimping themselves

And riot wonders why ADCs, the "build comp around and protect cause counterplay is focus them" class are harder to kill, while mages are constantly in the gutter unless we overturn their waveclear potential/damage. Hell the biggest buff they get is when they're not the center of attention because some other class is, letting them spam spells for free.

At least one of those AD items needs an AP counterpart.. I vote revert personally, LC$ is boring with or without it everywhere.

8 Comments

redniwediSApr 22, 20181 votes

The main thing AP gets is health, rather than resistances.

item 3116 item 3151 item 3027 item 3165

Plus AP gets a nice little hat to amplify the AP they get, so they can afford to get items like this and still have decent damage. I'm not defending AD itemization, but you do have to put AP into a decent light if you're going to make a usable comparison.

TormentulaApr 22, 20181 votes

But so does AD item 3071 item 3078 item 3053 item 3748 item 3022

plus shields item 3155 item 3072 item 3053

In the health regard they're pretty even except ADCs can't benefit from health items as much as bruiser ADs, so in a bruiser AD vs. a bruiser AP comparison that's where there's some debate on which class is better.

redniwediSApr 22, 20181 votes

AD also covers a wider range of builds. A Marksman can't effectively use Frozen Mallet in most cases, and unless they are overtuned no Assassin is going to go for health items.

Any mage, from a Battle Mage to an Artillery Mage, can make effective use of health focused AP items. As I said, I'm not defending AD itemization, but you have to put proper emphasis on what AP actually does have. What they lack in variety they make up for in consistency.

deadlychuckApr 22, 20181 votes

So the solution would be to make a new primary damage stat, rather than shoving so many different classes into the AD set of champions, which abuse the overlap of itemziation design for classes.

Yet riot doesn't want to do this, because they don't see it as enough of a problem to justify the effort required.

I mean hell, they're already removing/diluting tons of multi-scaling skills like (+%AP)(+%AD). I doubt they'd be willing to consider adding in, let's say, true damage as a stat which focuses on flat damage #s, giving it as a primary scaling tool for divers and assassins, but then adding it in as secondary scalings on some of the skills of other champions which might play something similar, like burst mages or marksmen abilities.

No joke this would actually solve the problem they created by adding assassins into the game... make their abilities scale with "true damage" (instead of AD), the way you build against them is with Max HP, rather than resistances. Now AD assassins don't do consistent damage with their autos and marksmen don't have unintended burst damage with their skills. This means you could then also split up the defensive mechanics on their items so that maybe marksmen would keep item 3139 item 3155 and lifesteal overall while AD assassins could get item 3026 item 3812 item 3053 effects. Bringing each of the once one, now two, categories more inline with the amount of utility that AP gets...

redniwediSApr 22, 20181 votes

That's one solution, if AD is the focus. Maybe AD is actually fine and AP just needs a wider range of diversity, and stronger item type dependency to match AD.

If we do go the new stat route I'd prefer to have the new stat be for bruisers, with both AD and AP bruisers using the same items, but having the damage be adaptive. Carry items could be balanced to be too squishy for bruisers, and the tank/damage hybrid items could offer too little damage to be effective for carries. I'm biased though, as a Juggernaut main.

Twilit AngelApr 22, 20181 votes

Yeah. AP itemization has felt stale for awhile. Mainly damage, resistances, and health. Nothing like an AP counterpart item for merc sash, hexdrinker, etc. Imagine an AP hexdrinker that absorbs AD. Another option to have against AD burst instead of just HP or stopwatch. Idk much about balancing, but items seem to favor AD heavily.

deadlychuckApr 22, 20181 votes

idk if AP itemization is stale, rather it's probably be more accurate to say that AD itemization has been pampered for years with mechanics and unique passives & actives. CDR use to basically not exist for AD itemization, now it's just as common as AP. Spell vamp use to act as an equivalent to Lifesteal, but now that's gone. AD gets bonus unique effects on their % resistance pen, while AP just gets flat AP

SchenixApr 22, 20181 votes

To be fair, Zhonyas has an insanely broken passive which nullifies literally anything for the sake of positioning, which half the time can serve to still kill you or place the enemy at a disadvantage. The issue becomes regardless of which, the stasis has to be waited out. There is near 0 counterplay to the actual passive, there is only planning around it. You can plan around a DD or Maw and weave CC to cut a QSS or know not to expend literally everything to commit because it isn't user activated -- but that doesn't exist for Zhonyas. You have to bait it through great effort in the same way you would QSS except it has to be dangerous enough that either scenario would result in death, or expending a powerful all in; and then hope the team won't help or they aren't diving you to juggle aggro, or preparing something like a Syndra ult or Zilean ult, or a myriad of other variables. It isn't amazing when you're behind though, yes. But it's fine to have, and if anything, will always stall your death or dissuade the enemy from doing an all in again recklessly, leaving your team some breathing room; provided you aren't eager to deal all your damage as fast as the game will allow you because of greed.

It's the reason AP's don't get much in the way of defensive items, is because Zhonyas takes up that defensive budget. It isn't for no reason it has been bought on every single mage mid in pro play since its creation for years. So if mages get real defensive items, they get those AND a Zhonyas. That's busted, and if not able to be used extensively enough in casual, it would absolutely break pro play wide open. Zhonyas legitimately needs to be removed from the game for defensive mage items to truly exist. Doing that would make many champions like Kennen, Karthus, Swain and Fizz and more begin to slow down, which means even considering that large scale work on Mage items again would require an extensive amount of thought.

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