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Still no female monster, and a tragically missed opportunity.

swan2swan·Jul 30, 2014·9 votes·2,039 views

To the Champion Creators:

A long time ago, Riot promised that we would see a female monster champion in the pipeline--one without sex appeal or a human form, one that would just be a solid female monster, like a gender-swapped Cho'Gath, Kog'Maw, or Malphite.

When Gnar appeared, I was initially disappointed because it seemed like it was going to be a male from the voice and name, but then I noticed that the creature seemed to have a bone bow in its hair, and I got excited because I thought it would be a female. But soon, this was disproven, and once again we were given a monstrous champion that is a male (in Riot's defense, we DO have Shyvana, who is a lady who turns into a terrifying monster, and Elise, so I suppose a male-turning-monster is due).

Prior to Gnar, though, we had Vel'Koz. And prior to that, I believe we had the Anivia visual update.

So the question is: are we still getting our non-sexy female monster? Are we going to have a hulking beast with a lady's voice, or will the monstrous roles continue to be given to men? You're a good company as far as diversity goes, and you've been improving in every area you might have fallen short...but not in this one. I know we have only had a few champions this year, so patience is still key, but finding that another hulking monster has hit the battlefield and isn't the Female of the Species is slightly disappointing.

Will this change?

33 Comments

DeuteriumJul 30, 20146 votes

nami Nami /anvia Anivia /cassiopeia /nidalee Nidalee /elise Elise /zyra Zyra /ahri Ahri /lissandra /shyv Shyvana /soraka Soraka don't count Aparrently :(

Hoi Im TemmoJul 30, 20141 votes

Well, he/she did specify non-sexy. By that, I assume he/she means to not have decidedly feminine physical features (making Anivia the only applicable one you listed, who is definitely not recent)

2VHWu4GBa6Jul 30, 20144 votes

Mermaids, Unicorns, foxes, cat and flower people are hardly what's to be desired in the OP's message.
pokemon... not really.
Close, but not quite.
She's a witch... and a narnia witch at that. Hansel and Gretel Witches are scary. Narnia witches are just another antagonist to drive a plot, and definitely not what the OP is wanting.
The OP wants a monster, devoid of humanity, and beautiful only in the eyes of the few.

More power to you OP, brother or sister.

swan2swanJul 30, 20143 votes

Mermaids, Unicorns, foxes, cat and flower people are hardly what's to be desired in the OP's message.

pokemon... not really.

Close, but not quite.

She's a witch... and a narnia witch at that. Hansel and Gretel Witches are scary. Narnia witches are just another antagonist to drive a plot, and definitely not what the OP is wanting.

The OP wants a monster, devoid of humanity, and beautiful only in the eyes of the few.

More power to you OP, brother or sister.

Brother. But thank you. The matter is not evil ladies--we got Jinx recently--but ladies that don't look like ladies. Ladies that could be gentlemen simply by changing the voice.

2VHWu4GBa6Jul 30, 20142 votes

I think the classification you're looking for, is "Female creature, devoid of HUMANITY", you want a creature that is definitely of the female mind, but has nothing human about her. something aberrant, and female. Just helping with the words that convey precisely what you're seeking to convey. :)

swan2swanJul 30, 20141 votes

I think the classification you're looking for, is "Female creature, devoid of HUMANITY", you want a creature that is definitely of the female mind, but has nothing human about her. something aberrant, and female. Just helping with the words that convey precisely what you're seeking to convey. :)

Not quite.

I'd be happy with her having humanity. Humanity in a monster's body can make a character interesting.

Like Zac. Zac is very human, even though he's an experiment. He has a desire to help others, he has parents, he has a sense of humor...he's human. I'm not requesting some primal monster or alien being, I'd be happy with us just getting a hippogriff who speaks in a lady's voice, or a swarm of bees that uses its queen to speak.

2VHWu4GBa6Jul 31, 20141 votes

Not quite.

I'd be happy with her having humanity. Humanity in a monster's body can make a character interesting.

Like Zac. Zac is very human, even though he's an experiment. He has a desire to help others, he has parents, he has a sense of humor...he's human. I'm not requesting some primal monster or alien being, I'd be happy with us just getting a hippogriff who speaks in a lady's voice, or a swarm of bees that uses its queen to speak.

Then you're just looking for something aberrant

DremonsJul 31, 20141 votes

I believe you just described Anivia, homie.

DremonsJul 31, 20141 votes

How can you tell the gender of monsters like Kog? Also, does an alien count as monster for you?

XXnIE66RuiJul 31, 20141 votes

You can tell the gender of monsters like Kog by how people refer to monsters like Kog. Kog'Maw is referred to as a he, which means he is considered male.

From Kog's lore:

"Seemingly unhampered by conventional rules of physics, Kog'Maw consumed every nomad and any obstacles they put in his way, amounting to many times his own mass and volume."

As for the definition of monster, from the OP:

"a female monster champion in the pipeline--one without sex appeal or a human form"

(Right now, only Anivia fits the bill.)

The Yetii RiderJul 31, 20142 votes

Nami, Cassieopeia, Nidalee, Elise, Zyra, Ahri, Lyssandra, Shyvana and Soraka are all humanoid. Now, you could argue that because Malphite, Cho'gath, Kha'Zix, Rengar, and Kog'maw are all bipedal, they are humanoid monsters as well. But, come on. When you look at Elise, you don't think 'There's a female spider". You think "There's a human woman with a spider motif who can also turn into a spider".

That's the real problem I have. If they had just released Elise's Spider Form, with a different passive that generated spiderlings over time instead of upon transform, and a real ultimate, we would have had an awesome female insectoid champion. But they didn't. They made her a transforming champion for no reason other than to give her a sexy humanoid model and 3 extra, unnecessary skills at the cost of a genuine ultimate.

Why did Elise need to be a transforming character when Skarner didn't? Riot has a unique and awesomely flavored scorpion champion who has his own magic style and one of the single most interesting mechanics in the game (pulling the enemy champion with you based on move speed and time rather than a set distance like Urgot) and he's not at all humanoid.

Elise's Spider Form has: spawn spiderlings, heal spiderlings, untargetable web, poisonous bite. All things that are very spiderlike and interesting. And her human form has...what, exactly? A non-existent passive (her passive only builds up in human form arbitrarily, could easily be ability gated in both forms), a targeted damage ability that has no real flavor and is just "I can throw poison at my enemy because I'm a mage as well as a spider, apparently", a W that, while cool, was not unique (Sapling Toss) and is not particularly flavorful (My exploding AOE skill shot scuttles and is shaped like a spider, but is clearly not because it's magical and explody unlike my actual spiderlings!) and an E that could have just as easily been in her spider form. Man, what an ultimate that would be. Here, let me show you:

Cocoon (R): Cooldown 120/100/80 Mana Cost: 100, Range: 175 Elise latches on to her prey, suppressing them for 1/1.25/1.5 seconds as she spins a cocoon of thread around them. While Elise spins her web, her victim is paralyzed, treated as an enemy to both teams and can be hit by skill shots and damaged by area of effect abilities cast by their allies. Elise takes 30/40/50% reduced damage from skill shots and area of effect abilities while she channels.

Now [i]that[/i] is how you make a tanky AP spider ultimate!

DremonsJul 31, 20141 votes

Skarner isnt just some monster around, he's one of a kind, that's why you couldnt have transformations. Giant talking spider are hard to find outside of Middle Earth, so you could only have a person who ended up becoming a spider, to which Elise kit and lore fit perfectly. Also, your ult deals no damage? That would be a little underwhelming for her

XXnIE66RuiJul 31, 20141 votes

It isn't a question of whether the champion fits their lore - of course they do, they're designed around their lore - but a question of design choice. Designers and developers are the ones who decide that stuff. They specifically decided to make Skarner male. They specifically decided to make Elise female. They specifically chose to make Elise have a human form that shapeshifts into a giant spider instead of just being a giant talking spider. Elise could be a giant crystal spider that is one of a kind and Skarner could be some guy with a cult following who is actually a giant scorpion that eats his followers. That it wasn't so was a deliberate choice.

The Yetii RiderJul 31, 20141 votes

"Giant talking spiders are hard to find".

As opposed to what? Monsters from the Void, an area with no basis in lore created entirely by Riot?

An anthropomorphic reptile?

A creature frozen in ice who did not die despite not eating or excreting for presumably hundreds of years?

Lore is whatever Riot wants it to be. Until Lucian, we assumed that every human in League of Legends had the same skin color because, idk, because their sun was weak and no one needed extra melanin to protect themselves where they lived. But that was proven wrong with his release. The only reason giant talking spiders don't exist in League is because Riot has yet to release one.

XXnIE66RuiJul 30, 20146 votes

/waves tiny Anivia flag

The only non-human female character in the entire game devoid of humanlike features to define her as female.

Even the yordle females suffer from this (being more humanlike than their male counterparts' recently solidified - by means of Heimer update - furry nature).

And I agree, it's another wasted opportunity. I feel like Elise/Shyvana/Nidalee don't count when they have a sexy humanlike female form to go along with their bestial form when none of the male creatures have it.

The Yetii RiderJul 31, 20141 votes

Riot has stated that yordles are a race with large sexual dimorphism, which they find to be an interesting concept that they're going to explore further with other champions. Lulu does look a lot more wild than Poppy or Trist though.

XXnIE66RuiJul 31, 20141 votes

That's sensible, but it's still telling that it's the females that look more like humans (...well. they sort of look like anime chibi characters, really) and the males that look more like animals.

I mean, the females could still look like animals and still be vastly different from the males (considering plenty of animal species look vastly different from one another). That'd have been hella neat.

MrSc0ttyJul 31, 20141 votes

That's sensible, but it's still telling that it's the females that look more like humans (...well. they sort of look like anime chibi characters, really) and the males that look more like animals.

I mean, the females could still look like animals and still be vastly different from the males (considering plenty of animal species look vastly different from one another). That'd have been hella neat.

Look at the SR visual update. One of the shopkeepers is a female yordle more in line with what Trist and Poppys visual updates will look like.

She's quite a bit fuzzier.

MrSc0ttyJul 31, 20141 votes

/waves tiny Anivia flag

The only non-human female character in the entire game devoid of humanlike features to define her as female.

Even the yordle females suffer from this (being more humanlike than their male counterparts' recently solidified - by means of Heimer update - furry nature).

And I agree, it's another wasted opportunity. I feel like Elise/Shyvana/Nidalee don't count when they have a sexy humanlike female form to go along with their bestial form when none of the male creatures have it.

The female yordles used to be an entirely different race called Meglings (see Tristana, the megling gunner) but they were retconned early on.

They've stated that we'll see a "grand yordle unification pass" which will reportedly make female yordles look a bit fuzzier. If you look at the new SR VU one of the characters near the shop is a MUCH furrier looking pink (I think) female yordle.

XXnIE66RuiJul 31, 20141 votes

I didn't know! Thanks for the info (re: Meglings).

If that happens I will be very, very, very happy.

darkdillJul 30, 20142 votes

So you mean something like a Hagraven ala Skyrim? I could see that being introduced.

Unfortunately, Riot's got a "if it's not sexy, we don't want it" policy when it comes to females, something that I feel is sexist in and of itself. Not every single woman in the world has a D-cup and hourglass figure, you know.

swan2swanJul 31, 20141 votes

So you mean something like a Hagraven ala Skyrim? I could see that being introduced.

Unfortunately, Riot's got a "if it's not sexy, we don't want it" policy when it comes to females, something that I feel is sexist in and of itself. Not every single woman in the world has a D-cup and hourglass figure, you know.

No, because a Hagraven would still be immediately recognizable as female. I'm not vouching for something unattractive or decrepit (though this is ALSO something we need, an old-witch-type character), just something big and bulky and savage and fearsome and maybe cuddly. But girl.

Picture a whale. Just a giant whale swimming up the lane. But voiced by Laura Bailey. There you go.

Hoi Im TemmoJul 30, 20141 votes

As much as i hate to say it; Riot may give a female monster, but definite, over-sized feminine proportions seems to be the only way to truly designate something as female in almost every fantasy game.

Baron von JigglyJul 30, 20141 votes

Poppy i think we have one already

but all jokes aside this is highly true look at Tiamat from darksiders that shit had me so confused on the gender at first if no one said it was a girl in game i wouldn't have known except the boobs.

league needs on of those

MalikCaesar777Jul 31, 20141 votes

How would you differentiate a female monster from a male monster?

I would consider stuff like vel koz and cho genderless.

They could make the voice more female, but that seems like it would be lazy.

XXnIE66RuiJul 31, 20142 votes

Plenty of non-human species have visible gender differences that go beyond genitals (which can't be shown in this game for obvious reasons). Birds, for instance, tend to have stark differences in plumage between males and females.

And plenty of other non-human species have gender differences that go from subtle to indistinguishable (aside from genitals). Dogs and cats, for instance. Usually the visible difference is in size and very little else.

And that's okay. I mean, you don't need to be able to differentiate monsters' gender using human parameters. Voice is a good alternative to make it clear which gender something is, but it doesn't need to be a parameter either.

So, how would you truly differentiate a female monster from a male monster?

Pronouns.

Cho'Gath and Vel'Koz are EXPLICITLY referred to as 'he'. That makes them male. Not genderless. Male.

Vel'Koz's announcement says:

"Vel'Koz has come to Runeterra. Witness the first moments as he makes his way to the Fields of Justice. "

Battlecast Cho'Gath's launch says:

"In another world where flesh is replaced by techmaturgy, Battlecast Prime Cho’Gath is the most feared and deadly construct to crush his way across the battlefield."

If they were truly genderless, Riot would've chosen 'it' as a pronoun for them everywhere. Or avoided pronouns altogether. Using a gendered pronoun implies gender.

(That, and if they are genderless, why is a male voice always the default?)

MalikCaesar777Jul 31, 20141 votes

Male voice is probably default because of the stereotype that it seems more intimidating.

But if the only difference between a male and female vel koz is whether Riot used he or she then I can't see why it matters.

I understand why you want a female monster, I just don't see a meaningful way to apply that without it being tacked on.

XXnIE66RuiJul 31, 20142 votes

The very idea that in order for a monster to be female it has to be done in a meaningful way is problematic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you, personally, of anything - just saying that it should be normal and natural for monsters to sometimes be female and referred to as female, just like it's normal and natural for them to sometimes be male and referred to as male. It doesn't need to mean anything. It doesn't need any special thought given to it. You don't need to be able to visually parse something as female for it to be female. All you need to do is declare it to be female.

Vel'Koz could be exactly as he is. Except referred to as a 'she'. And then Vel'Koz would be female. But that didn't happen, and they made him male. Just like every other monster except Anivia (who, by the way, didn't need anything special to be female and just is).

MalikCaesar777Jul 31, 20143 votes

That's fair.

And it would simple enough for Riot to incorporate as well.

Hopefully Riot sees this topic and considers it.

GlamazonJul 31, 20141 votes

Isn't Gnar a prehistoric yordle? We already have lulu and trist. You didn't miss out with him since you clearly don't count transforms (shyvana)

XXnIE66RuiJul 31, 20141 votes

And Poppy.

The problem isn't transforms, the problem is transforms when the accompanying "non-transformed" form is a humanlike female. Which, granted, female yordles are (they're not exactly sexy, but they are more humanlike than their male counterparts).

So yeah, while a female yordle probably would still have the "humanlike with transformation" issue, the point of the OP runs a bit deeper. I remember the exact same discussion coming up when Vel'Koz was released (I only started to play League recently so I wasn't around for the last creature release before that [Zac] or any others, sadly).

John BerserkJul 31, 20141 votes

Well they (cant remember the exact Rioter who said it... maybe IronStylus?) did say that Champion release MAY become more frequent in the later half of this year, so there's still time to see that female "monster" champion sometime before the end of the year. Who knows, maybe she's next in line?

(For those thinking that wouldn't be likely because Gnar is kind of already a "monster champ", remember, they released Lucian and Jinx back to back, so Riot doesn't seem to have too much of a problem releasing two similar champs close in proximity to one another, so long as they're different enough.)

VomitCoffinAug 6, 20141 votes

This is a great point you are making here. I would love to see some vicious females without ridiculously large breasts and revealing clothes because I mean, who does that in battle? When I think of a ferocious monster I think of something cool that looks like it is going to rip your head off, like Rengar. I have to also agree that Riot has made a lot of diversity in champions, but this is one yet to hit that point. I understand that there is appeal for champions like MissFortune but why not have a wicked awesome kick-ass monster lady?

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