Can we have "Demotion Series"?

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39·May 23, 2015·3 votes·537 views

First, we remove the 0LP warring that the system currently forgives losses at 0LP. Then say if you lose a game deducting your LP under 0, you will be put into a "demotion series" instantly. (no more warring)

If you lose 2 out of 3, you will be demoted and sit at 99LP. For division, it will be 3 out of 5.

If you win 1 out of 3 / 2 out of 5, you will not be demoted, and sit at 15 / 30LP.

You win a promotion and you sit at 0LP. It's the same sense for demotion to sit at 99LP. You lose a promotion and you sit at 60~90, same sense for demotion to sit at 15/30LP.

Why it makes sense? If Riot, you know, fucks our emotions up with promotion series, demotion series can be some consolation against the frustration. "I lost a promotion, but it's fine because it's equally difficult to get demoted."

On a more serious note, it's the same for promotion series. If you are at 100LP, why aren't you advancing? Even if you win, you will only sit at 0LP. You lose LP for demotion, but gain none for winning promotion. You have a net loss in LP between loss and win.

40 Comments

NoMonkuMay 23, 20154 votes

Demotion series are bad. Technically, it is similar to a promotion series, but all the positives that are associated with it, are negatives in a demotion series. In a demotion series, all that you get out of it is to stay where you are currently placed, but have to suffer through two to five games of incredible stress(assuming the amount of games are the same as promotion) just to keep your place. It is an incredibly negative experience you will have to go through that for some people may enjoy the challenge, but for others will completely turn them off to the game.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Demotion series are bad. Technically, it is similar to a promotion series, but all the positives that are associated with it, are negatives in a demotion series. In a demotion series, all that you get out of it is to stay where you are currently placed, but have to suffer through two to five games of incredible stress(assuming the amount of games are the same as promotion) just to keep your place. It is an incredibly negative experience you will have to go through that for some people may enjoy the challenge, but for others will completely turn them off to the game.

That's really a reasonable point. However, it's actually less stressful than promotion. You have to lose 2 out of 3 and 3 out of 5 games to drop, while keeping your LP stable.

Think of this way, currently if you sit at 0LP, you are stressed as well because losing may demote you instantly, while my idea lets you have more chanaces to bounce back before demotion, which leads to another extra BO3 to climb back.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:35:42.164+0000)

Which makes it so much easier to climb. Thank you for proving my point you want it easier. This right here defines EASIER. Ranked isn't meant to be EASY you reach 0 LP well you have a chance to demote instantly. That is that. That is why climbing is rewarding cause it is so easy to drop but harder to climb.

Check dictionary about the phrase "bounce back". You drop more easily than the current system, but you can avoid another extra BO3 if you are consistently good. You can call it "compensation" at the very most, not easier. It rewards good players and punish losing steaks.

Now read carefully next time.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:45:14.924+0000)

You drop easier than the current system, but you can avoid another extra BO3 if you are consistantly good. You can call it "compensation" at the very most, not easier. It rewards good players and punish losing steaks. Now read carefully next time.

You are ignoring that fact i said you drop instantly. Yours will be "2-3 games" more before you potential drop. Mine is you lose at 0LP? Sorry your demoted. Simple as that. no free pass of "oh i'm sorry here is a demotion series. No you just drop. End of story. No need to let people "bounce back" since there is no safety net. Don't reach 0 LP and you wont drop. Also if you are constantly good how did you manage to hit 0LP after 3 games in that division? Honestly if you are consistently good you shouldn't hit that marker. Please take your own advice, and read carefully.

The current system does not demote you instantly at 0LP, unless you really lose like 10 games in a roll. For me, I always have 2 to 4 losses forgiven before I drop.

The problem is not about making it safer, it is to eliminate the frustration in promotion series. I have explained it like 10 times already. My idea would not make it easier or harder for ranked.

By the way, I am wondering why you are deleting your previous comments.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:52:33.025+0000)

Actually you are wrong, People sometimes drop instantly after have won a few games on and off and then they lose 2 in a row after been even most the time then instantly drop. it isnt always 2-4 loses at 0 LP. Some drop instantly. Again like the other dude said a demotion series would probable add more stress anyway, it is another series to worry about.

I am speaking from my experience. I have never demoted instantly before. If it really makes ranked easier according to you, because the current system really demote you instantly, that's not my concern. My point was never related to the difficulty of ranked.

Well, I replied to him why it wouldn't be more stressful.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20152 votes

I never stated i do, I'm saying i know people who do. Yeah that isn't your concern but it is the current ranked policy so making you have your safety net actually just makes it easier. That is just that and that was my point. Your system makes it easier.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T12:00:19.335+0000)

I never stated i do, I'm saying i know people who do. Yeah that isn't your concern but it is the current ranked policy so making you have your safety net actually just makes it easier. That is just that and that was my point. Your system makes it easier.

From your experience, yes. Not for mine.

I am really curious why you are deleting your comments though.

Angry MonsterMay 23, 20151 votes

Why? If you are at 0 LP you should know that you are close to demotion at that point. Hitting 0 was your warring already. Why do you need more chances after that?

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-23T09:55:53.455+0000)

Why? If you are at 0 LP you should know that you are close to demotion at that point. Hitting 0 was your warring already. Why do you need more chances after that?

It's the same for promotion series. If you are at 100LP, why aren't you advancing? Even if you win, you will only sit at 0LP. You have a net loss in LP between loss and win. You lose LP for demotion, but gain none for winning promotion.

Angry MonsterMay 23, 20151 votes

Its not the same thing. First off you do not hit a 100 and magically advance or stay static. You are immediately put into a series. When you hit 0 the next loss may not drop you since the demotion in powered by MMR ratings. I had 5 game loss streak at 0 LP and still did not get demoted cause my MMR was high enough to compensate.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:05:23.887+0000)

Its not the same thing. First off you do not hit a 100 and magically advance or stay static. You are immediately put into a series. When you hit 0 the next loss may not drop you since the demotion in powered by MMR ratings. I had 5 game loss streak at 0 LP and still did not get demoted cause my MMR was high enough to compensate.

My suggestion has already included your concern.

"if you lose a game deducting your LP under 0, you will be put into a "demotion series"."

The series starts as soon as you have LP under 0, the warring doesn't exist.

BTW, if MMR matters so much, why did Riot implement the current system at all? They could just stick to their old ELO system.

Angry MonsterMay 23, 20151 votes

go look up their reasons, they posted them when they changed over in season 3. It has to with the feeling of achievement and playing anxiety of loss. Going from g4 to g5 is not as bad is going from gold to sliver without a cushion ect.

My suggestion has already included your concern.

actually it doesn't but i am not going to try to convince you anymore.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:11:03.162+0000)

go look up their reasons, they posted them when they changed over in season 3. It has to with the feeling of achievement and playing anxiety of loss. Going from g4 to g5 is not as bad is going from gold to sliver without a cushion ect.

In fact, it only brings more anxiety of loss in the promotion. If you get an afk in BO5, it's even more frustrating.

actually it doesn't but i am not going to try to convince you anymore.

I suppose your concern was that 0LP was already enough chances?

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:35:30.989+0000)

The MMR system is in the background. riot wanted you to feel better about progression. instead of saying you are #157,875 in NA you are instead Gold 1 which feels a lot better then being called #157,875 honestly.

I believe you haven't started playing before the ranked system was changed. Bronze, silver, gold, platium, and diamond already existed. For example, if you reached 1450 ELO, you would be in Gold.

You can argue that it gives you the feeling of progression by providing smaller 1 to 5 ranks in a division. I may agree on that. However, it is in the expense of causing frustrations in promotion series, which is why I made this thread.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:54:57.794+0000)

Um actually i played since the pre season of season 3 so end of season 2 is when i started which was before the new ranked system thanks very much. And I'm personally not saying it gives me the feeling of progression that is what RIOT had said.

If I agreed on Riot's policy, I wouldn't be here.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:15:24.892+0000)

Honestly if you don';t like the policy, just leave the community. The community isn't here to bow to what your needs are honestly. Even the community dislikes your idea, hence the down votes on the main topic in general.

Making a suggestion isn't trying to have people bow to me. Riot should just never reply if people just leave for disliking their policy. Just look at the QQs in gameplay and balance.

I can take those downvotes. Opinions aren't always the same.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:08:23.035+0000)

I'm fine with it how it is, some people get carried to higher elo so if u can drop easier then climb i'm glad about that honestly.

That's not a convincing point. The amount of people carried to higher elo is hardly more than those who got dragged by unskilled players. Taking trolls and afks into consideration, I bet it's much more common to be dragged than to be carried.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:15:39.666+0000)

LOL. Trolls are just as rare as people being carried or getting lucky and the reason "unskilled" got so high has to be carried or luck or they are skilled enough to be in that division. Don't you see u said "unskilled" bring you down yet they need skill , or other means, to get there to start. Honestly i think your upset you can't climb so you hide behind a level 7 account and not just use your main. Honestly stop whinning about AFKers/Trolls/"Bad Teammates" and worry about yourself. For real only thing in common with every game is YOU. fix YOUR gam,eplay and you may start carrying. Trolls/afks are more likely to be on the enemy team since you probable wont ever troll correct? so the enemy has 5 potential trolls while you have 4.

"Trolls are just as rare as people being carried or getting lucky and the reason "unskilled" got so high has to be carried or luck or they are skilled enough to be in that division."

That's my whole point, isn't it? You were upset for people who get carried to higher ELO: "some people get carried to higher elo so if u can drop easier then climb i'm glad about that honestly." I made a reasonable point to let you know that the pro and unskilled are both equally rare.

I agree if one is skilled enough, there's no ELO hell for him.

And don't get things personal and offensive. I had this account transferred to TW server. Here's the link of my account in TW: http://lol.moa.tw/summoner/show/Mundo It's like a lolking website, but it doesn't update much. I am currently Gold 2 under promotion series to Gold 1. It still shows my S4 rank as Plat 5. I still climbing back. Please tell me if you know a better match history recording website for TW server.

Before TW server was fully functional, my account in NA was already reset to Lv1 and emptied, I played it anyway because TW server wasn't launched. That's why it got to Lv7. My name was changed by Riot after the account wasn't played for a long time, because of their policy to prevent names reservation.

Please don't try to change the subject. I never whined about those afks trolls or bad teammates. You, on the other hand, are trying to speak for me and make things so personal and offensive. If you don't keep the topic on track, I would rather stop replying you. Thank you.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:33:50.065+0000)

This on on track you are asking for a demotion series which makes no sence. Rank isn't ment to be easily obtained is my point. if you want diamond and make diamond 5 you DESERVE diamond. If not oh well. If you can make a rank and you belong there you consistently will make it to that rank even after all the trolls and AFKs and other random things. You are trying to make "ranked" a joke. To be meaningless. if it is so hard to climb and fall then rank means nothing. I haven't changed the subject yet honestly. it is still on the subject of ranked and i just assumed, since most people make new accounts just to post on boards. So explain WHY there needs to be this implemented? solid facts that arent "oh AFKs/Trolls ETC. explain why RANKED needs to be EASY.

First I need you to calm down. Somehow you sound really upset and angry.

You weren't on track because you somehow started assuming that I was anxious for bad players, and then proceeded to lecture me on how I should play the game. You even attacked me for having a Lv7 account.

As someone mentioned, it is already hard to fall. You can have 5 losses warring even at 0LP. The idea of demotion series is not trying make rank easier to climb, but to minimize the hard feelings of losing in promotion series.

My idea even removes the current warring system that forgives losses at 0LP. That would possibly make you drop even faster than now. That's why I don't have to explain why ranked have to be easy, because I don't want it to.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T10:48:39.434+0000)

I'm not even remotely mad, nor have i this whole conversation. You also don't always have 5 loses at 0 lp, it is much easier to drop then that. it is only 5 when you FIRST get there. It to me seems you want to make it easier, since id only have 2 win 1-2 games and id stay my rank. Actually i feel the 0 lp is much betetr why would i want to use 2 more games to win or whatever u said to keep my rank when i could be 20-40 plus more LP into the league with those SAME wins? I also stated your level 7 since 90% of people make new accounts to complain on the boards. I'm also done "discussing" since you havent brang upo a single valid point, just stated the same thing and are trying to make it seem as if i'm mad when you are the one crying ranked needs to change becauise "AFK/Feeders/Unskilled. So Goodbye now (Do not reply i will not read it since i'm done with the conversation)

It seems to you I want to make it easier, and your valid point?

You didn't want ranked to be easy right? Why would you prefer 0LP to demotion series?

People make new account, yes. Is it related to our topic?

You haven't made a valid point yet too. What I see is you are not actually replying to my points.

I have never said ranked needs to be changed because of bad players. I mentioned it because you said: "I'm fine with it how it is, some people get carried to higher elo so if u can drop easier then climb i'm glad about that honestly." My point was "pro and bad players are equally rare".

Goodbye. I find it reasonable to terminate our conversation, as you seem to be in denial to comprehend my comments. I don't see us mutually intelligible, unless you calm yourself down a little bit.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:05:02.307+0000)

You again claim im mad, i've answered your points and made valid points. Did you forget this point completely? That why would i waste time in a demotion series when thos wins can be picking me up the ladder? Or did you just not even read the post like it seems.

Welcome back.

The answer you are looking was included at the top. Guess you missed it. You have around 15~30 LP for winning your demotion series. These are the same amount for one or two wins.

I didn't reply because the answer already existed. Please read clearly.

And yes, you are mad.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:11:58.488+0000)

Again no, i'm not remotely mad. But you can cry i am if it makes you feel better. I also can see you didn't even read the FULL THING since you only looked at a small portion (first paragraph) and then declared again I'm mad. Please read fully and take your own advice.

I don't feel better if you are mad, because it's diffcult to talk to a mad person.

I didn't reply your whole comment because you edited your post after I replied, obviously. Please don't make it like I didn't read, it only makes our conversation difficult. If you did it on purpose, well, you were embarrassing yourself.

To reply your added content, you kept contradicting yourself. 0LP forgiving only makes it harder to drop, while my idea would make it drops faster. Do you want ranked easier or harder?

"You have a net loss in LP between loss and win" That's to point out the irrational part of the current system, but not trying to suggest that ranked should be easier. If you are not advancing at 100LP, you should not drop at 0LP. At the same time, to compensate the difficulty you are worried about, losses at 0LP aren't forgiven anymore.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hb5OJo6m,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:26:44.549+0000)

I didnt edit it actually but you can make that up if you want to hide your mistake. But no i haven't contradicted myself, when you first get to the league you have 3 games of safty if you lose 3 games you usually stay. I didn't say i like that. i said that after 3 games you have a potential to drop automatically once you hit 0 LP. you again neevre full read the comment which shows that you aren't even considering other peoples statements. In fact it to me feels you are angry and are just trying to act as if someone else is I have no idea why. You keep randomly saying "you're mad" which is off topic and you complained i had stated earlier, which confuss me why you bother to keep saying the off topic thing. Anyway i've stated the same thing over and over.

If you play more then 3 games in a series you can fall at any time in 0LP. That is the current form and it is easy to drop. Plain and simple. your way you want safety before you drop. after those 3 games, there IS NO safety AT ALL. Please actually read what i say next time.

On the same note, I've delted my other posts since you obviously never read them fully and you just are actually looking to argue with people it seems. I've given my thoughts and you refused to acknowledge they existed. Instead you just rant how i never make logical thoughts and that i'm upset, which i'm not mad, and all my thoughts have been logical.

Hmm, I wonder why you deleted all your comments.

I said you were mad because it was difficult to communicate with a mad person. Look at your post. It's hardly comprehensible because of redundant rage.

The current system allows 3 losses before you drop, right? My idea demotes you if you lose 2 games RIGHT AFTER you reach 0. You do the maths.

You actually ignored many of my comments. Your posts are hardly logical and readable. I wouldn't need good English, because it's not my first language anyway so I understand English is hard, but at least try to eliminate typos and connect your thoughts coherently. Thank you.

KãtãrinãMay 23, 20151 votes

They seem pretty readable to me, and i'm not mad. but i am tired. it is the AM were i am so maybe that is why you feel they are harder to read. or maybe because it isn't your first language it is so hard for you to understand? Not sure nor do i care. My idea is you have a chance to demote INSTANTLY if you lose a game when at 0 LP i have said that plent of times. you keep referring to the FIRST time, congratz and it isn't 3 loses it is 3 games of a safety net i'm sure. That is 3 games in genral, not 3 loses but 3 games. So win 2 and gain like 10 lp then lose 1 and lose 20 and boom 0lp next lose you are back out. That is ranked for you.