I think Vlad and Ryze should take some nerfs

Garen is adopted··19 votes·9,078 views

not gonna keep thread long and not even gonna rant, I just want to say both of them are extremly safe, low cost and powerful. To start with Vlad, he literally can't die the entire lane phase, unless he's idiot, permanent healing, good poke damage on Q and even lethal on empowered Q, also "let's pool our efforts" which gives him a free escape from anything that isn't Yorcik wall (spoiler: no one plays Yorick anymore), he has 3 forms of healings without any runes and items, that being: his permanent spamming Q, his pool acutally heal him for the damage it deals or a percent im not sure, and his ultimate which is as overloaded as akali kit, a tld for what his ult does: aoe damage, aoe increased damage from all sources on enemies hit, self heal based on number of enemies hit. i may miss something, dunno.

You can't win laning against him, and he's a monster after he get his cdrs, morello exists but that will not completly stop him healing, when he both oversustain your damage and kill you in a combo there's not much room for playing.

Ryze. He's acutally even worse, his only "weakness" is at level 1, that being his only moment when he will run out of mana, but NOT until he gets enogh money for tear and teleport back on lane, then he just spam from a safe spot his E Q on waves, and if he feels he can kill you he may use his W too, or use it just for damage why not, is not like anyone will get close enough. He nevers runs out of mana, or if he does you will not even notice because he will recall and be back before you acutally can use that for your advtange, He outdamage you just by building mana, he can oneshot you in late with just an EQWQ combo, which anyway he spams everywhere, not to mention for some reasons he also have shields and i may be wrong but i think he have some movement speed too, or i may be wrong didnt really completly read his last rework.

20 Comments

Sylaelque12 votes

What about Ekko and Qiyana ?

Tomoe Gozen3 votes

Are you allergic to assassins?

Blue Shift5 votes

Ekko isn't an assassin, and for Qiyana, an assassin should never have hard instant cc, let alone multiple or god forbid aoe cc.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

an assassin should never have hard instant cc, let alone multiple or god forbid aoe cc.

CC is bad, mkay? According to many people here, CC is overall broken as you can die in under any duration. If Qiyana doesn't have good mobility, good all-in or good positioning, what is she supposed to bring to the table to the assassin lineup and means to distinguish herself from the rest of the roster?

Acemaster812 votes

She could have a different method of dealing damage, or her mobility is more conditional? Assassins as a class mostly bring 1 thing to a team. The ability to get to protected targets and take them down, and possibly escape alive. But anything more and they have overloaded kits. Assassins shredding tanks? Assassins stunning an entire team? Assassins with tank stats and still deleting squishes? Too little or too much time to react? That is too problematic for the design of the class. I dont think Qiyana should have an ult that is more fitting for other classes, without being a tank or support. If Riot needs to give an assassin such a powerful ult to make them unique, then I would prefer an assassin that requires bushes, or teleport to their daggers which feel so different yet are in the same class. How about making an assassin that deals less damage when seen and they must try their best to set traps in the jungle or kill you from a bush? I think playing assassin should be a unique type of challenge with something within their design to overcome with creative thinking.

Tin Obliterates3 votes

{quoted}

What about Ekko and Qiyana ?

gotta sell the skins, pal.

hhaavviikk7 votes

Nothing like vladimir bursting you to death while he can't be targetted because he's in his friggin pool, seriously undo the change allowing him to use E while in his pool.

hazerddex7 votes

Ryze is currently an ap juggernaut with burst mage level damage

WoonStruck6 votes

Ryze is much, much stronger atm.

Vlad's laning is insanely weak and youre a fool not to punish it. The only champs he beats early destroy him level 6-12, or outscale entirely.

Sir Saltarin6 votes

Have to agree with you.

Ryze is a way bigger problem than Vlad now.

Ahris2 votes

{quoted}

Ryze is much, much stronger atm.

Vlad's laning is insanely weak and youre a fool not to punish it. The only champs he beats early destroy him level 6-12, or outscale entirely.

I played Ahri, got vlad to like 1/6, that one kill not from me, and he just destroyed my team with just like 2/3 items.

As Ahri, I couldnt burst him anymore, and he offered way more damage than I could.

How is it fair when he got completely stomped in lane and still be able to come back becaue he got X items?

Honestly,Vlad is broken. He should not deal tha much damage while being tanky. They need to remove that tanky passive, and require him to build health. That way more fair.

The fact that my team had to run because he is vlad, despite feeding like crazy, is ridiculous. As ahri, who also has a weak early, who is also outscaled for no reason, clearly it is not fair.

Śhunpo1 votes

They're both disgusting, so they both deserve nerfs. Problem solved!

VelvetCrotch4 votes

yep. i already made a thread about vlad as many others. it seems sometimes the forum supports it sometimes they dont and come with superfluous complaints (maybe vlad mains who knows)

but yeah the best example it a game i had as Panth which we won but still: i won lane, played smart, took ignite, executioners and bullied vlad out of lane. after a while he was 0/4 and me 4/0. farm was even. (got a bit more). but after i got back and made one little mistake in trading and didn't had ignite up, he killed me. even - again - i was 4/0 without being too close for him. i remember matchups where a Riven. Renek or Vlad are 4/0. GG...

Ryze on the other hand is just a machinegun. Who has too low CD and too safe range for the dmg he can do. not a fan of his kit at all.

ff 20 please ty3 votes

yep, Ryze i don't usually have a problem with fighting (i only have fought idiots) and i can say hes safe but not unbeatable even late game you can beat him pretty hard i fought one actually really smart ryze and still beat him because the whole team played smart, on the other hand vlad is just stupid, i hate that champion, but whatever

RhastaFhasta3 votes

maybe try getting good?

arowin2423 votes

unfortunately, both are favoured by Pro-play (because of consistency and safety) and since the live design team seems listens to them more than the actual community they will stay like this until there winrates go WAAYY up (which wont happen, because both those champs are bad in SoloQ).

my advice for countering them: play a ranged bully like Jayce, Neeko or whatever is more Broken / OP at the moment. ask you jungler to Gank early and often, if your jungler is something like a Lee sin or an Elise all the better.

otherwise prey upon their mistakes and do not allow them to leave lane: they are both significantly more powerful in teamfights than in a shoved-in lane. (keep in mind, their 1V1 is still ridiculously strong)

Best of luck.

Daddy Ants2 votes

Senna could take some nerfs also.

Exodus2471 votes

I know this is gonna sound dumb, but why not play champs that counter em or synergises against them?

Good example is maokai, yeah hes not the best tank, but with how much they spam spells, you can keep up with the dmg with all the healing and tankyness you have. Could go kass if youd rather carry more, hes always a nice go too animage, altho he has to scale. Or galio, hes much better than he used to be, after the like, 4th rework lmao. Or, depending on who you play, first item adaptive helm after boots. Ive had people do that to me before, even as swain and the 2 talked about here, and i could do almost nothing to them.

Also, they themselves, or atleast ryze, doesnt need a buncha nerfs. yeah ryze is strong, but he needs to scale, especially with levels. If you always contest him, he should have a really hard time, and its even better for you if you force him to fight with his team before he has items and levels, so he does way less dmg.

Another thing that helps both of them a LOT right now is how conquer got changed to, so i think that needs ranged duration changed back to what it was. Just a few ideas, but i hope that helped. I will say tho, vlad is a %%%% and needs nerfs, i agree with you there. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Demented Lemur1 votes

Vlad I agree is dumb and is just boring to play against as he has too much sustain and his pool is too much of a safety net.

Ryze is not nearly as big of a problem

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