Why do tanks do more damage early game than pure damage dealers, riot?

Taunme··2 votes·1,230 views

I played as Talon top lane to a Tahm Kench. At the beginning of the game, we had decent trades. Non of us had died, i had more farm and experience by level 6. At first back, Tahm Kench goes for straight armour to counter my damage, in which I buy some sustain. I have Tiamat by 10 minutes into the game, and he is building into a Sunfire Cape. At this point all I am trying to do is poke him with my W and get him low enough to pop his shield. He has roughly 500 hp at this point and I'm using Corruption Potion to regenerate some mana back. He has two stacks on me at this point, he then proceeds to flash over the minions, use is tongue to slow me then auto me one more time. I have 500 health at this point. He then eats me, dealing roughly 200 or so damage, causing me to W, ult, and run away. He still has roughly 300 hp. I don't understand why this champion, building only armour, can do significant amounts of damage. Again, he has ZERO damage items and yet he does SO MUCH damage. Riot, you clearly don't understand what a tank is. Because tanks don't do damage. It makes no sense. I poked him down, I stayed clear of him, and yet for no reason at all, he still does incredible amounts of damage. Fix this riot. Prove to us you can do something right.

17 Comments

The Sword Saint8 votes

Your argument is flawed. You build damage vs squishy targets, he built defense. You didn't build defense. Of course anyone's base damage is going to hurt you, you didn't build to take less damage. You built to do more damage to squishy targets. If you want to do more damage to tanky targets you need anti tank items.

Cindikle5 votes

No unit in this game means little to no damage unless you built wrong or had to build wrong. A tank is there to take the heat. But if they are not a threat, teams will ignore them. That's why tanks have strong base damages. To remain a threat.

Tahm is a bad example too. He's currently a bit too strong. He also did build damage. His ult gives his abilities and basic attacks bonus magic damage based on his bonus HP. Sunfire not only counters your damage for him. But it gives him that AoE damage and bonus magic damage through passive.

Defense is also easier to build than damage but scales less overall. So if you couldn't overpower him before he got 6 and an item that counters you. You lost lane. As you'll need a lot of gold to overpower his cheaper options. By not being able to beat him early, he won lane by default.

Taunme1 votes

This is my point. His base damage is broken, meaning he doesn't have to build any damage to be able to sustain AND do damage. It makes zero sense. It wasn't an example, because this shit actually happened to me. Also the point wasn't that I could kill him or anything, it was that he could just do so much damage without building any damage items. All of the claims here saying that I didn't build correctly is irrelevant. Its the fact that he simply does so much damage anyway.

Cindikle1 votes

Your example is bad. Tahm is on the OP side.

But you title specified tanks in general. He did what he had to do to live.

That +50 damage or whatever means little to the 200 something your W is going. You are not factoring in base damage enough.

To counter that Sunfire you'll need something like +200 attack to make up the lost damage.

You have no defense to his damage. He built to counter you on top of being able to get some damage out of it.

You built as if you were facing a squishy in mid lane. And tried to engage a tank who built to counter you in lane. You are not meant to win this.

What you should of done was use your better waveclear, then go roam. Since your a top assassin. Your best use is in other lanes. Use Teleport to get to mid/bot and gank. This is how bruisers/jugg's work. They have a lot of free damage for their down sides. But this usually requires something extra. Tahm has to build health. Meaning he's weaker to %hp damage. Again though he's kind of OP at the moment.

Do you really think the idea of you being able to build strait damage and be able to break the defense of someone who's meant to be tanky is OK? If you could break him, what would that mean vs squishies? Talon would get gutted.

Next time you face a Tahm. Focus on waveclear and poking with W. Do not engage past that till you can ensure the kill. Given it's Tahm, that's not likely.

Mecha MaIphite4 votes

Talon early game is kind of shit when you're against a bruiser/tank, and it usually doesn't get much better. So Talon top is generally a bad idea.

dangopee3 votes

I don't disagree but to be fair TahmKench is just plain broken right now and is in serious need of balancing.

MasterSomething1 votes

Tanks CAN do damage. It is called SUSTAINED damage. Think of an ADC, but add utility with less damage, and boom. Tanks do so much damage because they are always left unchecked during teamfights- the focus should be the carries, not the one peeling.

Taunme1 votes

This is relevant if you are talking about team fights. Which I am not. I am talking early to mid lane phase. Even when he had his beginning items, he still could do more damage to me in shorter amounts of time. I see this as broken solely in this champion. But there are other cases where this is true as well with different champions.

MasterSomething2 votes

Tanks damage early on is quite high to make up for their poor damage scaling late (with a few exceptions). Not to mention everyone is weaker early. Plus, as someone said earlier, he was building tank and got HP which boosts his damage, while you were building nothing but damage.

Taunme1 votes

Do you see why you are proving my point?? TANKS SHOULDN'T DO DAMAGE ANYWAY. It makes no sense at all. Look at any mmo ever (besides dota 2 I have never played it) and you will find that tanking is so much more harder because they don't do damage at all. Their entire purpose is to peel and soak damage. THAT'S IT. This game is too flawed.

MasterSomething3 votes

If this game is too flawed, then don't fucking play it. You got beat in lane once, because A. You were countered, B. You were counter-built, C. He built items that go with him well, and D. You took an assassin to a bruiser/fighter top lane. Tanks can do damage, and while it isn't exceptional damage, it's still damage. If tanks did no damage in this game, their defense would have to be buffed so hard they would be ridiculously unkillable.

Aeolian Melodies2 votes

{quoted}

Do you see why you are proving my point?? TANKS SHOULDN'T DO DAMAGE ANYWAY. It makes no sense at all. Look at any mmo ever (besides dota 2 I have never played it) and you will find that tanking is so much more harder because they don't do damage at all. Their entire purpose is to peel and soak damage. THAT'S IT. This game is too flawed.

  1. This isn't a MMO, this is a MOBA
  2. No dmg at all at any point of the game = no threat = no point
  3. Tahm himself is overtuned AF, but the concept remains the same
Aeolian Melodies1 votes

Because tank need decent bases to be able to do anything as they will not itemize for dmg.

Dmg dealers typically have lower bases due to their scalings + the fact that they will itemize for dmg.

That, plus the fact that tanks have better defensive stats than dmg dealers so in a straight up fight tanks can outrade.

Taunme1 votes

How the fuck does that make any sense. Does no one understand what a tank is at all? Clearly riot doesn't. Why does it make sense to have damage dealers, DAMAGE DEALERS, do no damage?? How does that logically make sense at all. How does it logically make sense for a tank to out trade a fucking damage dealer. It does not. Not even a little bit.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

{quoted}

How the fuck does that make any sense. Does no one understand what a tank is at all? Clearly riot doesn't. Why does it make sense to have damage dealers, DAMAGE DEALERS, do no damage?? How does that logically make sense at all. How does it logically make sense for a tank to out trade a fucking damage dealer. It does not. Not even a little bit.

Damage dealers are meant to build dmg therefore they need an incentive to build dmg. If they had crazy bases, they"d jsut buy tank to have both dmg and tankiness. Use your brain.

{quoted}

They don't. You just died to their low base damage since you are squishy and outtanked you. It is mathematically impossible for Tahm to do more damage than Talon to the same target and with the same gold, the difference is that if the target lives and fights back Talon is probably dead.

% max health dmg

bitch pls.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

Have you seen irl tanks? Those things do dmg. Side note talon is crap early and tanks have good early dmg to make up for their crap dmg late.

BluePolarizer1 votes

They don't. You just died to their low base damage since you are squishy and outtanked you. It is mathematically impossible for Tahm to do more damage than Talon to the same target and with the same gold, the difference is that if the target lives and fights back Talon is probably dead.

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