Karma Support is so broken

Rico Nasty··14 votes·5,198 views

Seriously, why is she not played more? Karma She's got it all in her kit - a good poke, a good snare, and a good shield. her ult+e combo also stands as one of the best utility combos in the game. she has synergy with most adcs. great for teamfights.

(karma also works great as an AP mid mage) she is definitely seeing a bit more play now, but not enough! just thought i'd spread the word:)

46 Comments

IcyPepper17 votes

Shhhhh... remember what happened when people said Sona was a viable mid?

16 nerfs later...

disregardable2 votes

But the nerfs got rid of literally everything except what made her a viable mid, her long range, low CD , high damage harass.

IcyPepper3 votes

That's the point.

Sorry if it was unclear, but I meant that the nerfs came after people said she was a viable mid.

I don't want Karma to be nerfed too hard.

Rico Nasty1 votes

if they nerf karma i will go to riot games headquarters and take a massive shit all over the person who nerfed her.

Lusth8 votes

Also her w isnt a stun, its a snare. People can still attack you.

Only Play Darius5 votes

Because Blitzcrank destroys the absolute sh*t out of her.

In fact, blitz is the main reason that tank/offtank supports like Thresh Braum Leona Nautilus are the only relatively safe picks these days.

The only mage support who can survive against blitz is Morgana for obvious reasons.

Laraso1 votes

Personally I don't really have any problems playing mage supports against Blitzcrank. With perhaps the exception of Annie, most mage supports seem to outrange Blitzcrank. Especially Velkoz .

Judge Arcadia2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hM7E8EyU,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-03-30T05:36:44.087+0000)

Because Blitzcrank destroys the absolute sh*t out of her.

In fact, blitz is the main reason that tank/offtank supports like Thresh Braum Leona Nautilus are the only relatively safe picks these days.

The only mage support who can survive against blitz is Morgana for obvious reasons.

Fuck, its already begun. People are already calling Naut a support... THANKS LEMON NATION!

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Janna Nami ......

Kitten of Evil4 votes

Shh don't tell anyone! People on this thread don't seem to understand how powerful a R+E can be on your whole team. It's a stronger item 3069. Alternately, if you need to deal with tanks, W works well, and for squishies Q and R+Q are good.

She isn't the best at any one thing (though strongest as a poke support), but that's entirely the point. She has very strong poke, good defensive CC (W isn't going to catch people offensively, but it's great protection against dives), and a decent shield that also massively hastens allies... she does everything decently, but doesn't do any one thing amazingly. A well-designed generalist.

Baron of Bread2 votes

I love the speed boost. Really helps to spam it endlessly as you run around the map dropping wards.

I think of her as a defensive generalist, at least once you leave lane. An AoE speed boost+shield, an AoE slow and a tether that turns into a root to catch any chasers make for some great disengage. Decent engage as well, but you can usually get someone else to handle that.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Last time I built item 3069 item 3504 item 3020 and with support masteries had 465 out-of-combat movement speed all game. It was glorious.

manbearswine4 votes

1)she doesn't have a stun,at all. 2)her cc is VERY subpar. 3)her bases are okayish,but she falls off late like a brick. 4)her early is very strong,but it's not stong enough to offset how hard she falls off.

She's good,has some good reasons to be picked here and there(specifically if you need to somehow manage the early game of twitch/vayne,which will also benefit well from your peel late),but for the most part is outdone by other supports.

Please downvote me to hell for my realism and unwillingness for swagtalk,thank you for your cooperation,have a good day.

Champion Skin1 votes

I think she is alright top lane against some bruisers as her kit is really good at kiting and screwing over melee bruisers not to mention most of them deal sustained damage so her R + W screws them over really hard

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hM7E8EyU,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2015-03-30T18:07:50.511+0000)

I think she is alright top lane against some bruisers as her kit is really good at kiting and screwing over melee bruisers not to mention most of them deal sustained damage so her R + W screws them over really hard

You're focusing too hard on her laning phase,most meta top laners(with tp) can out regen her mana(as in->eat shit->use some ability to heal/pots->eats some more shit->karma runs out of mana),and will outscale her hard,you could pick lulu/lissandra instead,have a rather similar laning and scale better into lategame.

She does have some strength in her versatility,as in she can lane(though will generally get outscaled) vs right about anything,right about anywhere,I do somewhat feel she has more room as a support(due to their early game focus) and as a mid,where she can bully her opponent and roam okayishly(though then again le broken and trashfox can do that better,and scale better),I think she could use some buffs(specifically,I think riot will have to concede the linear scaling of her ult,same as they did with renekton).

Yuki Akuma3 votes

Because her mid iteration is far stronger at everything. That's probably why.

FistOfSharkiesha2 votes

No hard CC unless you count a 1-2 second snare that requires a squishy champion to stick to a dangerous enemy like glue for 2 seconds. She scales just like other supports (not too well) and she never gets the level 6 power spike. For how damage oriented she is, she doesn't scale enough and she doesn't have the unstoppable CC other champs like Morg and Leona have. I love her, but she's nowhere near broken.

Miku Lv992 votes

She sucks lategame. She can't even really use her snare since it involves getting too close for how squishy she is. She she has essentially no cc so she's just a weak damage and shield mage.

Scrimshäw1 votes

"She sucks at late game", that's what ADCs are for.

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Treasure Goblin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hM7E8EyU,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-03-30T08:59:05.251+0000)

"She sucks at late game", that's what ADCs are for.

You could make that excuse for any champion falling off. Even late game ADCs need someone to peel for them and make opportunities for them to get kills. The reason Karma falls off is because she's not great at either of those things, and is a poor team fighter as a result. She can shield for a high value and help them reposition but aside from that she's primarily throwing out poke over and over. Karma is best in lane and early engages when her damage is pretty horrifying. Once it gets late and her damage is less notable, you start to wish you had a support with a big team fight presence like Sona, Nami, or Leona.

Rico Nasty1 votes

"She sucks at lategame" don't most supports suck at lategame unless you're tank..

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

"She sucks at lategame" don't most supports suck at lategame unless you're tank..

No, because most supports offer utility. People like Sona and Nami will never suck late game because they have ways to change a team fight and support their allies. Karma's biggest contribution is damage, damage, and more damage, and she simply doesn't have the utility to do much aside from it. Karma support is more "poor man's APC" than anything and she's an APC who only has one AOE damaging ability.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Her empowered W his a huge asset to a teamfight lol

Only Play Darius1 votes

Her empowered shield provides one of the best team fight initiations in the game, adds something like +1000Hp to the entire team's health pool, and that's without building AP. Also functions as a mini-sivir ult when disengaging. And it can potentially be up every 20 seconds.

Orbv1 votes

Idk, I don't have many (because I don't have time) games with her, but I do have 5 ranked wins carrying with Karma mid, half were 50+ min games, so she isn't terrible late game. She's an amazing mid. Her waveclear is decent, her AoE shield is unparalleled, and her W is pretty nukish especially against a tank with item 3151. She counters Leblanc. She's also an amazing roamer.

But in regards to being a support, she's good but you need to be aware that she's not a lockdown support. However what she is, is not common. She's both a rush engage/disengage support. She can do both. Lulu can do both as well, but she's more defensive than Karma.

Karma can initiate or disengage with her shield. But if someone dives your carries or tries to run, you slow them to a screeching halt.

You need to choose her in combination with Ezreal, or Sivir, or Jinx.

DarkFaun Fortes2 votes

She was my first support champ!

Drunk Rummate2 votes

damage falls off super hard without a ton of AP

personally I prefer Zyra when I want a poke/peel support. Zyra has crazy bases and can shred tanks in sieges with a liandry's.

Champion Skin1 votes

Karma also has no instant CC (except a slow) to lock down asssassin and prevent them from killing her ADC/APC

But her laning is really good... but late game the fact that she only has 3 abilities does hurt her quite a bit....

Phife1 votes

she functions alot like annie. Gotta go heavy ap for her to be good. And if you dont deal damage with your q youre pretty much useless. And her w leash range is as big as the cast range... so theres that also.

Abyssphere1 votes

She doesn't have a stun, just so you know.

I think the main problem with Karma supp is that her CC is rather bleh. She's really good in laning but it's hard to make use of that snare in a team fight.

Owntrolf1 votes

tank supp karma

manta w and watch as they cry from your heal

Sassmast3r1 votes

IF THIS CHAMPION GETS NERFED I'M GOING TO CRY A DELUGE OF TEARS

Voidac1 votes

SHHHH, DONT TELL PEOPLE SHE'S GOOD. THEN I'LL LOSE MY SECOND FAVORITE SUPPORT (First being Brand support...).

Maratsune1 votes

Shhhhhhhhhhh :o Don't tell everyone~!

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

The fact that I've seen Karma one shot a squishy lategame with just an R + Q means that she is somewhat broken.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I'd have to see that to believe it, unless by "one-shot" you mean the squishy wasn't at full health. I've built Karma full AP and she can do about 50% of a squishy's HP in one R+Q, but she has absolutely nothing to follow up with.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

I saw it, it was a Fizz who was afk on our team at base in front of the nexus turrets. He had full health, and their Karma walked over, used her ult then shot a Q at Fizz. He died just from that skill, and it was pretty stupid, honestly.

Her R + Q combo deals 260 + 175 + 350 (+150% AP)

or

785 (+150% AP) Magic Damage

That can easily one shot a squishy.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Well yeah, if you're AFK you get hit by both parts of it. Most enemies are smart enough not to get hit by the explosion, which reduces its damage somewhat... but with even just your base 30 MR, you aren't taking that full amount of damage. Fizz has scaling MR too, so we're probably talking 45 - 50 MR late game... that means you're taking ~70% of the damage assuming no MR masteries or runes. 550 + 105% AP

Unless Fizz was way underleveled (which it sounds like he was if he had AFKed), that's not going to one-shot a Fizz unless Karma has nearly 1000 AP.

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

He just said brb, he wasn't afk for long. It was lategame, and everyone was level 18. Funny how I'm getting downvoted for saying the truth. People really don't like admitting that champions are broken...

Anyways, not everyone can dodge the explosion of the skill. It's a 50% slow while in it (I think), and walking out of it is difficult unless you have mobility. It's still enough to one shot people, but Karma players will never admit this.

Dengeden1 votes

item 2049 rush is more or less a necessity in standard lanes right now. This means that Karma will, one way or the other, lack damage. As long as you can survive her burst, she isn't all that useful because item 2010 galore. It gets even worse once item 3105 is built.

She also kind of gets outclassed by Lulu in terms of utility and Thresh/Naut in terms of all-in. The lack of hard CC and being more or less damage reliant is pretty bad for supports right now.

CrankyChipmonk1 votes

Downvoted. I'm sorry if you don't understand why.

ssokp

PokladnicaZla1 votes

The only thing in her kit I find problematic is her R+Q combo.If she goes mis->Full AP it deals alot of damage if hit.They should lover the initial hit damage,but increase the delayed damage on her R+Q.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well R + Q is a lot of damage.. because it is almost all of her damage? And getting the secondary damage of isn't always that easy unless you snare/root them first.. but this is troublesome because it has such a short range and that means that squishy full AP Karma is likely to die horribly

That is like saying LB Q + R shouldn't deal as much damage when LB builds full AP...

TheAlabrehon1 votes

I one-shoted their mage with R+Q, but don't tell Riot.

Oliver The Fiend1 votes

I have no idea where these comments on her not being played are coming from, I see her nearly every other game.

Silent Air Ops1 votes

Guys I think Karma is ok his shield not even close to 1k shield max is only 200 shield if empowered only 500 only half of what you are trying to emphasize. And one more thing every 20 sec that is if her ult is maxed out and will alot of CDR or the enemy is stupid enough to just run into karma's q or close enough to get free auto. Karma is also very easy to kill.

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