has anyone ever tried support jhin?

BoRnToKiLL666·Feb 5, 2019·3 votes·2,949 views

the build is you dont put Q, but you max W then E since you have a long range root and can protect teams with traps?

glacial augment perfect timing biscuit delivery Approach velocity

Guardian Bone plating

15 Comments

MachigainashiFeb 5, 20192 votes

If my support picks jhin im dodging, why can't people play real supports

HethaleanFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If my support picks jhin im dodging, why can't people play real supports

What are 'real supports' what what precisely makes each individual one a support vs something else that performs similarly?

Stars ShaperFeb 5, 20191 votes

Supports are supposed to have the tools to "easily" make their lane companion's life easier by either: being tanky enough to sustain some beating and act as damage sponge for the carry, healing, CCs (possibly from range) and defensive tools.

That's the reason some mages are also used a lot as supports with the addition of some bruisers. Another marksman is rarely a good choice because he lacks a lot in one or more departments. In Jhin case, he has really small CC and his main damage tool in the early game is a granade that must kill other targets in order to get the damage bonus which actually gimps your carry farm potential, all of this while being extremely not tanky.

DrCyanideFeb 5, 20193 votes

"performs similarly" is your key there. Support Jhin would not perform similarly on any grounds. Support Riven inspires more confidence.

ROYALR3IGNFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

What are 'real supports' what what precisely makes each individual one a support vs something else that performs similarly?

The problem is that they can't perform the same role similarly. At least no where near the same level of effectiveness.

There's quite a few people on the boards with this attitude that anything can go anywhere, and do anything with any champion. I think people took the "Riot supports off meta/ doesn't want to enforce the meta" too far where they interpret it as "It's okay to build something /pick a champ in a bad role so blatantly inefficient and a hindrance to your team that it might as well be a 5 v 4 in the name of 'off meta'" Again I'm not saying this is you specifically but its this kind of thing that drives toxicity cause its infuriating to people that are trying their hardest to win games.

What makes a support a support? Why are certain champs played primarily as a support not say an ADC or a JG? (This applies to any role)

Supports have a niche to fill that other champions cannot fill as well. Specifically they provide a large amount of reliable utility, to peel and engage for the team. They also are key in winning the vision war as the changes to sight stone means that JG's can no longer just abuse the green jg trinket and get a second sight stone. They also need to be able to function on a low budget, and shared exp. Champs that can do this well succeed in the support role. That's why you don't see people playing Jhin support. Because he really can't reliably do these things better than even the worst "traditional" supports. Only to be even more useless as the game goes further on.

Dorans PantsFeb 6, 20191 votes

[while I agree that jhin-support is in no way revelutionary or optimal, this problem applies to any point on the scale, from small changes like item choices to off-meta picks/playstyles and theocrafting in general.]

And I must say that I find the extremists on the other side of the fence just as infuriating. Leashing out at everything that deviates from the norm regardless of effectiveness. I mean there are obviously bad choices where you can tell beforehand, but there is also a huge grey area where theocrafting won´t get you far and you have to go into the game to see what works and what not and where the problems lie.

Sometimes you can make adjustments and often you will have to give up on ideas entirely, but people will bitch constantly at you for even trying. They want to copy whatever proves to be useful afterwards, but they don´t want to put in any effort themselves and they don´t want those people who do in their games. It´s the good old: "you can´t try out something new unless someone else popular did this new thing first."

The fact that you can go from being called a troll to meta-sheep who abuses the new shit in a day is laughable and shows how fickle the average player is regarding these topics. There are seemingly only two polar opposites and how something new is classified is usually partly determined by gut feeling and partly hive mind.

And some rules are just completely arbitrary or wrong for example: "Only champs that assist teammates and deal no dmg are true supports" ( sounds like strawmaning but I encountered this sentiment like a million times ) .Meanwhile, AP supports are played effectively and consistently. "But the likes of brand and vel shouldn´t be viable supports to begin with!" And I have no idea why this should be the case other than adcs having a rough laning phase.

"Zyra is a support though!"

[zombie-brand-mindblown] And there I am giving up.

There is also the question of how suboptimal your choices are allowed to be. Is picking anything that is not S-tier trolling? Is playing anything but your main trolling? I mean try out a new champs and you will just feed as hard if not more than if you tried a different build. Those games are just as ruined, but one of those things will make people want to report you the other not. ( maybe both now that I think about it xD)

ROYALR3IGNFeb 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dorans Pants,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h57sJTx2,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2019-02-06T02:22:45.304+0000)

[while I agree that jhin-support is in no way revelutionary or optimal, this problem applies to any point on the scale, from small changes like item choices to off-meta picks/playstyles and theocrafting in general.]

And I must say that I find the extremists on the other side of the fence just as infuriating. Leashing out at everything that deviates from the norm regardless of effectiveness. I mean there are obviously bad choices where you can tell beforehand, but there is also a huge grey area where theocrafting won´t get you far and you have to go into the game to see what works and what not and where the problems lie.

You are technically allowed to theory craft and you really should be allowed to IF you do your homework and figure out what works, why it does, and in what context. This is how stuff like Viktor top ends up coming into play in a time where usually you have beefier champs going top. It does not mean you should go into ranked thinking "Hurr Durr AP Renekton ADC, I'm not trolling its just off meta."

Sometimes you can make adjustments and often you will have to give up on ideas entirely, but people will bitch constantly at you for even trying. They want to copy whatever proves to be useful afterwards, but they don´t want to put in any effort themselves and they don´t want those people who do in their games. It´s the good old: "you can´t try out something new unless someone else popular did this new thing first."

I draw the line at "trying" things in ranked without knowing you can do well with it in normals. Like if you're going to "Try" something like AP Tryn better make sure you're familiar with the nuances and stuff before you MOBAfire a build and proceed to go 0-5 in 10 minutes.

The fact that you can go from being called a troll to meta-sheep who abuses the new shit in a day is laughable and shows how fickle the average player is regarding these topics. There are seemingly only two polar opposites and how something new is classified is usually partly determined by gut feeling and partly hive mind.

I agree with this but, even then if you see some KR challenjour do something, if you don't understand how or why the build/pick works and you're just copy pasting it, don't fkn do it in ranked. Don't pick MF support because you saw it at worlds, but not realize it was a very specific counter to Zyra support, and is paired up with Ashe.

And some rules are just completely arbitrary or wrong for example: "Only champs that assist teammates and deal no dmg are true supports" ( sounds like strawmaning but I encountered this sentiment like a million times ) .Meanwhile, AP supports are played effectively and consistently. "But the likes of brand and vel shouldn´t be viable supports to begin with!" And I have no idea why this should be the case other than adcs having a rough laning phase.

"Zyra is a support though!"

[zombie-brand-mindblown] And there I am giving up.

I honestly hate those two as "supports" they really aren't, they are just mages able to still operate on a low income because of some BS mechanic that makes them a threat no matter how far behind they are. (VK with his true damage, and Brand with his %hp passive)

But I agree they're good for climbing in solo q because they give you more agency to carry the game yourself instead of relying on some random ADC that might even be autofilled themselves. You will almost never see them played professionally though because they offer almost no peel, and organized pros know how to deal with them.

If you're playing an ADC and one these two guys is support, just pick Ezreal and play as safe as you can while landing some Qs on em cause if you get jumped on god help you, these guys aren't gonna peel for you.

There is also the question of how suboptimal your choices are allowed to be. Is picking anything that is not S-tier trolling? Is playing anything but your main trolling? I mean try out a new champs and you will just feed as hard if not more than if you tried a different build. Those games are just as ruined, but one of those things will make people want to report you the other not. ( maybe both now that I think about it xD)

There's a difference between AP Riven JG, and taking Nunu/Maokai support. Like yes neither of them are the best pick for the job, but the latter can still peel, engage, and provide utility which is key to a support. AP Riven jg can't do anything really.

Feeding is a whole other issue. If you're laning you gotta learn how to lose gracefully. You don't have to always win your lane. But it is your responsibility to keep the difference between the two of you as close as possible. That means doing your best not to snowball the enemy laners out of control, pinging MIA's, keeping your area well warded, shoving in when the enemy is roaming and you can't follow, and most importantly learning when you can and can't take CS.

boricCentaur1Feb 5, 20192 votes

I have seen a jhin support in one of my games and the draven on my team was not happy. Jhin also went ap and basically what ended happening is he stood in the back did 0 damage and slowed like 1 maybe 2 champions in a team fight and very few times I saw a root. Maybe it can work with that build but I do doubt it will work.

KalienorFeb 5, 20192 votes

Tried it, main issue is your only hard cc has a long Cd, a casting animation and can be dodged. That means if opponent goes ham on your adc, you have little to no way to prevent it, so you'd better have the upper hand permanently. Early game, it can go well, your base damage (especially 4th round) allows you to pressure the enemy lane, but it's falling off starting midgame because trap Cd even at rank 5 with 45% Cdr is way too long so you can only rely on your W, that has long Cd too and not enough accuracy for that kind of use.

I suggest you to try it with a premade adc because you have to win FAST and communication is key to optimize your actions.

Lord MalpercioFeb 5, 20191 votes

I'd prefer a Support Teemo, and that's saying something.

Admittedly Jhin's root is quite a long range, but uh... His traps suck. At least Teemo's blind can stop an ADC in laning phase and his shrooms actually are satanic.

usul1202Feb 5, 20191 votes

Traps aren't effective peel, though. They're an a slow that's difficult to land and has a respectible cooldown, any change in location would gimp him. The only other supportive options he has are his w root (inconsistent, long cd) and the slow on his ult (inconsistent, long cd, heavy limitation on targeting with having to be so far back that he can't use traps). Other than that, he doesn't bring much. Jhin is hyper gold efficient, but he needs expensive items to abuse that efficiency.

I can see this being a fun thing to do like an all in execute lane of jhin kaisa in norms, but I don't see it winning much in an even skill game.

VekknaFeb 5, 20191 votes

I've always wanted to do this with Caitlyn and W max alongside a Jhin, Ashe, or Sivir adc.

I don't do it because it's not worth playing a game with 4 teammates tilted from 0:00.

RitoslostfkboyFeb 5, 20191 votes

Try Draven support its more fun

Dorans PantsFeb 6, 20191 votes

I wouldn´t play it in rankeds, but I played my fair share of jhin support games and I can say that it´s a mixed bag. When you are winning you are winning hard and if you are losing you are losing hard. Your effectiveness is also very very matchup dependent.

So it´s kind of like the ad equivalent of a botlane mage with slightly more utility and less reliable cc. Your early pressure is good, you scale slowlier but well, but you are also very deceptable to ganks. (depending on the jgler. Sometimes those traps work wonders)

Sadly, with adcs being a tad weaker and dmg being so oppressively high it has become hard for me to justify slotting in another adc into the teamcomp just for my personal amusement.

On second thought, remembering how fast you are called a troll even when playing a regular support ( killing a creep, getting a kill, or building items your adc just doesn´t like ), you might as well go all out and have fun with your pick.

I guess I know what I will play in my next game...god have mercy on my adc.

quick! to the troll cave!

[sg-kiko]

BoRnToKiLL666Feb 6, 20191 votes

yea but doesnt jhin also have near global range with ult?