http://i.imgur.com/3ewIdeD.png Well, this is a bit awkward..... I know that tanks and bruisers are returning due to the juggernauts and all, but really? I don't think Vayne should be that strong against Draven considering Draven is supposed to be a very strong lane bully versus a 'weak' laner.
Professor Ward60 votesthe problem here is that people think vayne is a weak laner,
i duo with a vayne main and honestly i dont know of an adc that can out trade her early if played right
vaynes "lane weakness" is no more than poor play idc what anyone says she trades too damn well to be considered weak early or in lane
shadecrapper25 votesWell, when every ADC gets a nerf except one... When other champions are getting buffed except ADC's... Vayne becomes the best ADC in game
Godaren2 votesWell, when every ADC gets a nerf except one... When other champions are getting buffed except ADC's... Vayne becomes the best ADC in game
then at the end of this season jinx and vayne will get nerfed hard and another 2 adcs will rise to the top :(
FistOfSharkiesha18 votes
say hello.
Tails Doll3 votesAsh is moslty used for her Arrow engage, not because OMFG LOOK AT THE DEEPS, and Kalista because she straight up counters an entire class. So, no.
FistOfSharkiesha2 votesAshe has an extremely powerful damage buff in her ranger's focus and guaranteed crit from her passive. Not to mention she's got 600 range and permaslow so she wins most trades simply by kiting, just like Kalista.
Tails Doll1 votesYes but she is not the heaviest hitter of all ADC, she hits hard, just like everyone that builds crits and is ranged, but her power comes in the form of long range engage + slows.
FistOfSharkiesha1 votesYes and I never said she was the strongest, just not weak. She has 1 incredibly powerful steroid that keeps her damage competitive with other ADCs.
Troll for Trump2 votesI really don't want the 
meta back.
I urgot about it2 votes
I can only dream for the day
MohawkBird5 votesAt least Ashe is immobile. It's more problematic having Vayne being top tier with her ridiculous mobility and self peel.
Titiln2 votesWell, when every ADC gets a nerf except one... When other champions are getting buffed except ADC's... Vayne becomes the best ADC in game
People have been saying this for nearly 3 years now. at what point does it boil down to Vayne just being broken?
shadecrapper3 votesShe is broken, her kit is really good. But she shines more and more when the competition keeps getting nerfed
Lady Hammerlock3 votesactually is isn't early game being weak she just doesn't have good kill pressure early
Duchess of Deer1 votes"vayne main" could be they're just good
Remlap12231 votesAhem... 
.
And if you really want to make a Vayne cry; 
Matezoide1 votesAhem...
And if you really want to make a Vayne cry;
Meanwhile Vayne has a positive win-rate against every single one of those.
Remlap12232 votesNo, she doesn't.
48.2% win rate (should be lower because MF is her hard counter, but that's because MF is weak, not Vayne being too strong)
51.13% win rate (should be lower, but that's because Corki tends to fly off the handle with itemization changes).
51.58% win rate (again, ADC Varus is shit right now)
55.38% win rate (good, fuck Kalista, I hope she never gets played again)
49.39% win rate (makes sense, Draven is a high skill floor lane bully)
50.01% win rate (perfect)
51.64% win rate (makes sense, she hard counters Sivir)
50.67% win rate (makes sense, true damage>hybrid resistance passive)
52.96% win rate (insert racist joke here)
55.2% win rate (ADC Ezreal is a joke right now, should surprise no one)
51.13% win rate (that's a problem, but Caitlyn is very weak right now, so makes sense)
51.63% win rate (that's interesting, and probably the strongest argument to Vayne being as OP as the circlejerk says)
50.13% win rate (perfect)
The only thing that can be extrapolated from this data is that ADC Ezreal is shit right now, which is no surprise considering his AD ratios are godawful, Caitlyn is weak, which she is, Varus is weak as a designated ADC, which he is, and Miss Fortune is weak, which she is.
Anyways, don't let my facts get in the way of your circlejerk... CUE THE DOWNVOTES!
TurquoiseYoshi19 votesYou know what logic is? Logic is making a late game hyper carry having a 1 (3200 gold) item power spike. So Vayne, a weak laner, hits her powerspike before Tristana (3800) or Corki (3703), who are both considered decent-good laners.
Professor Ward10 votesYou know what logic is? Logic is making a late game hyper carry having a 1 (3200 gold) item power spike. So Vayne, a weak laner, hits her powerspike before Tristana (3800) or Corki (3703), who are both considered decent-good laners.
thank you so much this is so true we win lane everytime at bork
Hotlin3 Fling3 votes
no we don't
LithiumWednesday1 votesAre those DoTA heroes? Never seen those before. Nope. Not ever.
Hotlin3 Fling2 votes
this is a dota hero
TyroneWatermelon9 votesi wish vayne will be deleted.
Archon X6 votesVayne can condemn Draven away from a spinning axe. RIP.
Learning moment7 votes[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gtcXFYqm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-05T14:13:37.456+0000)
Vayne can condemn Draven away from a spinning axe. RIP.
condemn has a 20 second cool down and costs 1/3 her mana pool laning phase. Draven has one of the lowest win rates because people dont know how to play him correctly.
bddesu31 votesYou don't know how much missing an axe hurts our morale.
Sinlaire3 votesno kidding. i had one of my team mates chew me out for buying 
on Draven the other day. I was like, "the fact that you think im bad for buying this means you dont know shit about him. "
honestly. team fight breaks out and even if you're lucky enough to have 2 axes spinning you're almost never lucky enough to keep them all from all the displacement and cc depending on enemy team comp. so you've gotta burn through 1-2 Q's, 2-5 W, an E, and an Ult Per team fight. Draven loses half his mana bar in a single fight nearly every time and then you gotta worry about what he's gotta do with the last half when he goes back to lane.
and god freaking forbid another fight breaks out if he drops so much as a single axe because he got cock blocked by his own minions.
Losing axes hurts like crazy with those mana costs.
Floooooooooooops2 votesIf you also build a 
and
you can spam sheen proc axes with muramane active to deal crits over 2000 per hit and you don't run out of mana cuz you have essence reaver
KayleeT5 votesOnly way a Vayne is winning that lane is if her support is godly, or shes just a much better player than the enemy draven
Tails Doll17 votesOr, you know, she gets a BoTRK, but hey, I'm just saying.
I urgot about it1 votesThen deny her farm or get so ahead her botrk spike won't catch her up :[
Tails Doll1 votesYes, because you can crush every single Vayne and make her go 10 cs at 20 min right? Not to mention support help (FoTM Passive and stuff) and junglers gank.
Please I have Supported Vaynes that manage to keep some good CS (About 30 Cs less than their counters) thanks to my help, only to get a gank and a kill and then suddenly she is winning the lane after she got Coutglass/Botrk, simply because she can go in every time she sets foot on lane, and even if she doesnt get a kill she wins the trade thanks to her stealth/my help (you know, getting a pink ward that early for a support it's really expensive, so there is not much enemy bot can do in a 2v2 most of the time, if the vayne knows whats up.).
I urgot about it1 votesWhy not just freeze near tower..if they overextend for cs call your jungle and snowball, then 4v5 mid after taking tower from double while vayne farms and you get drag, then get mid turrets etc. then catch vayne out if she overextends but if she joins mid, just delete her since you've won so many fights already There have been games won vs vayne, there are ways to win One of my duos mains vayne, i think I know what I'm saying.
Tails Doll1 votesOFC there are way to wins, there is a reason why her win rate isnt 100%.
Shockforce5 votesThis is a matter of her kit countering his rather than her being stronger than Draven.
Vayne is supposed to be able to force Draven to drop his axes. If he drops an axe it means he does not get his W reset which means his damage output and chase potential falls. Doing it at the right time can make him drop both. She also has the ability to dodge stand aside and still has her normal shenanigans.
In lane this means that he has lower than usual kill pressure on Vayne even though Vayne still retains all of her's so Draven's early game ends up somewhat neutral when supports and junglers get involved in the mix (abets ridiculous snowball in either direction.)
Then you need to add Vayne's post-laning power which is better in the current meta.
Yxgl222HaX4 votesTell that to c9 sneaky lol
Troll for Trump3 votesYeah 
counters now
and 
is strong against
now. Rip the bros. I picked darius mainly because of him countering riven. He's still fun but not being good against riven kinda stinks. STill have garen tho.
SentineIs2 votesAnd then you realize Darius just heals everything Riven dishes out with 1 skill. Darius still crushes Riven.
Troll for Trump1 votesYoou can't land the Q unless the riven is afk, your jgler comes to hard cc her, or unless the riven is braindead. She just Q's and E's away while you q. Hell, she can even jump towards you to kill you 1v1. Your W doesn't slow her attack spped anymore so she can outtrade you in short trades. In the longterm, if she just afks, of course you will beat her with 5 passive stacks. Basically all she has to do is qqqw e away.
Alpharite3 votesI used to almost always beat Vayne in lane with Lucian, and now she can usually wreck me after just a cutlass (whereas I have a pickaxe at this point or if I've farmed really well, a BFS). Revert the nerfs to other ADCs so they can actually fucking compete.
Acadiaum3 votesI'm not sure what you guys mean, but I destroy Vayne easy in lane. It's the supports that make a huge difference.
BuzzinTate1 votes
wiffs grab I AM MAKING A DIFFERENZE
Ravenstiker2 votesIMPOSSIBLE, THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTER'S DRAVEN IS DRAVEN AND ALISTAR BECAUSE NOT EVEN DRAVEN CAN MILK THOSE ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Beoridas1 votesthe truth of the matter is this. Draven has more dmg but needs more peel from his team. SoloQ world isnt exactly the best ground to show how draven destroys vayne.
But here is a fun fact. Riot believes vayne to be balanced. That may be true BUT since she is a strong competitive and soloQ pick--Its about to force their hand so what they did instead--smart as they are--is to buff draven to not only make him stronger overall but be more of a popular pick so she can be countered.
result: no nerfs to vayne.
Sinlaire2 votesactually a few days ago i think it was RIot REp who chimed in on the boards somewhere that they said that they DO believe that Vayne is too strong, but that they wont nerf her because they're trying to find out if her strength comes from item synergy, the meta and item shifts, or if it comes from other adcs/counter-champs being too weak.
here's the surrender at 20 post where it showed (it was actually Meddler himself) talking about Vayne and how they're theory crafting how to bring her in line.
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/09/red-post-collection-meddler-on.html
Beoridas1 votesthe reason i said that is because Meddler said himself that he believed her to be balanced since she gives up tools and utility for her team for her own power. If thats what they think now then so be it.
But personally i think thats because of Riot nerfing all adcs.
I remember early this season when they nerfed Lucian and corki at the same time since they thought hed be too strong with lucian nerfed. Then graves, then jinx--then varus was moved mid and when the tank meta hit, hyper carries became more of a thing.
