What champs need reworks

Reallydunno·Nov 23, 2019·3 votes·1,184 views

Long story short: every champ who is either overloaded or underloaded. Now, here's what being overloaded or underloaded means:

An overloaded champ, in a world where all numbers for attributes and abilities are standardized, will always win against other champs. They have combinations of certain mechanics -- extreme mobility, high built-in healing, the ability to neutralize certain attributes of enemies, stealth, etc. -- in the right degrees that they can do more than their enemies, forcing them to be understat in order to be balanced. Now, they don't necessarily need all these attributes if they have one or two of them to a sufficient degree. For example, only really has the healing to fit into this category, but that alone is enough for her to be pretty overloaded because, no matter how low the numbers get, she can proc the healing often enough to make it absurd. If she's in a 2v1, assuming she only has two tentacles already spawned, she can e one enemy, ult to bring the total number of tentacles up to 5, and w them. This will heal her for 25% of her missing hp, plus any conqueror healing she might get. Of course, while I consider illaoi overloaded, I don't consider her to be close to the most overloaded champ in the game right now. That honor goes to champs like , , , or even . All of them have insane mobility, abilities that are great for AOE damage, three of them have top tier teamfighting ultimates, two of them have stealth, two have shields, Irelia has damage reduction, and three of them also have some pretty great CC. Now, do I think they're necessarily OP or need nerfs? No. The only one I'd say urgently needs nerf is Kai'sa, who manages to maintain around a 50% WR despite both being allegedly one of the harder ADCs, while also being one of the most picked champs in soloq and Worlds. Riven and Qiyana I think are in good places rn, being sufficiently difficult to play for how high their potential is, and not being too busted in general. Irelia, pending a rework, actually needs some minor buffs IMO. She has a pretty low play rate and win rate. But either way, I think all of them need reworks in the somewhat near future, even if they're not full VGUs.

To be underloaded is the exact opposite issues. If their numbers were comparable to those of champs who were moderately well designed, they wouldn't stand a chance. Now, missing one or two good attribute doesn't make a champ underloaded. is a classic example. It's true that he has no built in mobility, unless you want to count his ult, which, combined with him needing to land a short ranged engage ability, makes him rather kitable. This is not an underloaded champ. This is a champ with a reasonable weakness for what he brings to the table. He has a healing ability which can bring him up rapidly, but also requires him to put himself in danger. His passive AD and ult resets, when combined with this, lead to a champ who needs to get a good engage and stay in the fight if he doesn't want to become a super minion in essence, but if he does get rolling in a teamfight, he can tear through the enemies. I think the best examples of underloaded champs in the game right now are probably and . Both of them rely on movespeed and tenacity as their only ways to get to an enemy, though Mundo also has his Q slow. At the same time, they both need to be close in order to kill their enemies, as their primary damage is melee. Again, they are not necessarily underpowered -- in fact, they are currently two of the strongest champs for their respective roles, with Mundo even being able to flex into top. This is because they have some of the highest numbers in the game. Mundo can heal half his HP at level 6, and Garen becomes an unstopabble beyblade of death once he gets . For them to ever be balanced without being stat sticks, they need to be reworked. In fact, I think Garen's recent rework just exacerbated the issue, making him more dependent on getting his stats super high.

Anyway, that's just my view. Hate me for daring to attack your champs? Fine, leave a comment about it.

8 Comments

CaptainAntiHerozNov 24, 20192 votes

Tryndamere because he encourages you to sit in a lane and forces the entire enemy team to focus on him which is fine, but when he can 2 bang an ADC while not being killable it becomes a big problem, if they kept his ult as but made it more Press R and when you hit 0 hp you go back up to X % health maybe 50/75/100% with increased lifesteal and encouraged him to actually think his plays through that'd be great

Caitlyn not because shes dated persay, but because she no long is really filling the professional sniper role anymore. Really only her ult does. With champs like Jhin and Senna who actually either have incredible design (Jhin) or an actual method of set up and follow through sniping (Senna's Q and Jhin's Curtain Call). Meanwhile Cait is more along the lines of a trapper who legit just slaps down traps so you can't come up and then spams Q through the wave while flaunting her superior range.

Vladimir because he can literally just build hybrid AP tank and just laugh as he only ever drops low if he gets ganked or it's early game. He also really doesn't come off as a person who is in control of blood he just happens to have a little blood pool he has. The main issues being pool and R. But i can't really come up with a good solution to make him fun for vlad players while being fair in the eyes of people playing against Vlad.

Kalista because she is a dumpster fire of a champion right now. She litterally requires a teammate to be effective whereas half the adc roster can be flexed mid nowadays. She needs to either gain some form of independence and ability to be played just as Kalista without turning her back into a hardstomping monster, or a complete rework.

Anivia R. Just her R. It's such a meh thing like look at me here is a circle that slows you and kinda hurts. She really doesn't feel like a demigod of the frozen north. Perhaps if during her passive she emitted a frost zone that slowed champions, and this frost zone also occured (but was weaker) around her ultimates aoe to really make it feel like a blizzard is happening. Also she needs and update visually because her auto attacks feel terrible.

Corki just needs a update so he makes sense in the lore.

DrMundo needs a rework of some kind because if he gets ocean soul he just gets to do whatever he wants to.

because its too damn easy to full combo someone and force them out of lane with abilities as loaded as Brand's are.

ReallydunnoNov 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

because he encourages you to sit in a lane and forces the entire enemy team to focus on him which is fine, but when he can 2 bang an ADC while not being killable it becomes a big problem, if they kept his ult as but made it more Press R and when you hit 0 hp you go back up to X % health maybe 50/75/100% with increased lifesteal and encouraged him to actually think his plays through that'd be great

not because shes dated persay, but because she no long is really filling the professional sniper role anymore. Really only her ult does. With champs like and who actually either have incredible design (Jhin) or an actual method of set up and follow through sniping (Senna's Q and Jhin's Curtain Call). Meanwhile Cait is more along the lines of a trapper who legit just slaps down traps so you can't come up and then spams Q through the wave while flaunting her superior range.

because he can literally just build hybrid AP tank and just laugh as he only ever drops low if he gets ganked or it's early game. He also really doesn't come off as a person who is in control of blood he just happens to have a little blood pool he has. The main issues being pool and R. But i can't really come up with a good solution to make him fun for vlad players while being fair in the eyes of people playing against Vlad.

because she is a dumpster fire of a champion right now. She litterally requires a teammate to be effective whereas half the adc roster can be flexed mid nowadays. She needs to either gain some form of independence and ability to be played just as Kalista without turning her back into a hardstomping monster, or a complete rework.

R. Just her R. It's such a meh thing like look at me here is a circle that slows you and kinda hurts. She really doesn't feel like a demigod of the frozen north. Perhaps if during her passive she emitted a frost zone that slowed champions, and this frost zone also occured (but was weaker) around her ultimates aoe to really make it feel like a blizzard is happening. Also she needs and update visually because her auto attacks feel terrible.

just needs a update so he makes sense in the lore.

needs a rework of some kind because if he gets ocean soul he just gets to do whatever he wants to.

because its too damn easy to full combo someone and force them out of lane with abilities as loaded as Brand's are.

Let me go over them: Tryndamere yes, but not necessarily for the reasons you said. Relying on crit chance is the biggest problem, as it leads to the biggest "feast or famine" playstyle in League. He either gets lucky in his first couple of fights with double/triple crit, or he just doesn't. His passive is his biggest problem, I'd personally just make into a mini conqueror without the healing. My next problem with him is his W, which feels really unusual IMO. It only works on fleeing opponents, but opponents only really have the ability to run away early. Late game, he either spins onto somebody and two shots them, or he gets juggled around and blown up before he can find an enemy who's running away. His ult could use some changes. It should feel like something more based around rage than just the "too angry to die" meme. Maybe he instantly stacks his new passive to full, doubles the AD it gives, and grants some lifesteal so it can still keep that not dying idea.

Caitlyn I agree. I feel like her E is the biggest part that needs a rework. I think it would be cool to give it both a passive that increases her range like Tristana 's regular passive, and an active where she can lock on to one enemy who she can hit from a farther range temporarily, almost like a mini version of her headshots that goes for a bit.

Vladimir I don't really agree with a full rework. I think a mini rework is the way to go with him. Rework his passive (IMO there shouldn't be any cases where building one stat buffs another directly), make his E require a certain number of nearby enemies and scale with the overall max health of everybody nearby, and make his ult scale with how long enemies stand in it.

Kalista Absolutely. Her ult and passive were both mistakes. Her passive forces her to be underpowered, and her ult is useless without a coordinated team. I don't know what to do for either, though.

Anivia I agree she needs to have her R changed. Aside from that, I think she's one of the best designed champs ever.

Corki That just comes down to a lore change, and maybe a minor visual update. Nothing else, really.

DrMundo I've thought he's needed a rework since before he even became an insane jungler. If his stats and ratios are around the standard, he's pretty useless, even as a counterpick to AP champs. He probably needs a full rework more than anyone else, as, in my opinion, none of his abilities fit well in the current game.

I hate him as much as the next guy, but his design's actually reasonable. He has a lot in his kit, but he can't do it all because of how his passive works. I do, however, think his numbers are way too high right now. I say to give him and easier to hit stun in return for lowering all his ratios to, at most, two thirds of what they're at right now. A support should be able to easily set up for his team to kill the enemies, but struggle to do anything alone.

CaptainAntiHerozNov 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Let me go over them: yes, but not necessarily for the reasons you said. Relying on crit chance is the biggest problem, as it leads to the biggest "feast or famine" playstyle in League. He either gets lucky in his first couple of fights with double/triple crit, or he just doesn't. His passive is his biggest problem, I'd personally just make into a mini conqueror without the healing. My next problem with him is his W, which feels really unusual IMO. It only works on fleeing opponents, but opponents only really have the ability to run away early. Late game, he either spins onto somebody and two shots them, or he gets juggled around and blown up before he can find an enemy who's running away. His ult could use some changes. It should feel like something more based around rage than just the "too angry to die" meme. Maybe he instantly stacks his new passive to full, doubles the AD it gives, and grants some lifesteal so it can still keep that not dying idea.

I agree. I feel like her E is the biggest part that needs a rework. I think it would be cool to give it both a passive that increases her range like 's regular passive, and an active where she can lock on to one enemy who she can hit from a farther range temporarily, almost like a mini version of her headshots that goes for a bit.

I don't really agree with a full rework. I think a mini rework is the way to go with him. Rework his passive (IMO there shouldn't be any cases where building one stat buffs another directly), make his E require a certain number of nearby enemies and scale with the overall max health of everybody nearby, and make his ult scale with how long enemies stand in it.

Absolutely. Her ult and passive were both mistakes. Her passive forces her to be underpowered, and her ult is useless without a coordinated team. I don't know what to do for either, though.

I agree she needs to have her R changed. Aside from that, I think she's one of the best designed champs ever.

That just comes down to a lore change, and maybe a minor visual update. Nothing else, really.

I've thought he's needed a rework since before he even became an insane jungler. If his stats and ratios are around the standard, he's pretty useless, even as a counterpick to AP champs. He probably needs a full rework more than anyone else, as, in my opinion, none of his abilities fit well in the current game.

I hate him as much as the next guy, but his design's actually reasonable. He has a lot in his kit, but he can't do it all because of how his passive works. I do, however, think his numbers are way too high right now. I say to give him and easier to hit stun in return for lowering all his ratios to, at most, two thirds of what they're at right now. A support should be able to easily set up for his team to kill the enemies, but struggle to do anything alone.

Tryndamere item 3181 who even needs crit chance when you can just 2 bang whoever you are laning against plus he has item 3095 item 3031 its stupidly easy

Caitlyn he Q and W are the problems right now he q does too much and is too spammable, its not something to think out and aim it can just be spammed just like her W

Vladimir literally said his W and R are the problems

Kalista i think we both agree for the most part on

Anivia is in no way one of the best designed champions the only reason she hasn't been reworked by now is because it isn't completely bad and somewhat thematically holds itself together. Her autos should probably not be tossed from the tips of her wings, her wall is clunky to use and her R is as we both probably agree lackluster at best

Corki totally agree although he needs a VO update too because he's using real world terminology (at least sometimes) and he shouldn't be

DrMundo ... yeah pretty much.

i don't think Brand should have a stun period. 1 it kinda doesn't make sense. 2 he has those high af damage numbers and 3 if he had a slow instead at least I could attempt to move away from my team when he decides to throw R into us. As it stand pillar of flame is too good early, and R is too good in team fights especially if you get stuck with the mountain map

ReallydunnoNov 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

who even needs crit chance when you can just 2 bang whoever you are laning against plus he has its stupidly easy

he Q and W are the problems right now he q does too much and is too spammable, its not something to think out and aim it can just be spammed just like her W

literally said his W and R are the problems

i think we both agree for the most part on

is in no way one of the best designed champions the only reason she hasn't been reworked by now is because it isn't completely bad and somewhat thematically holds itself together. Her autos should probably not be tossed from the tips of her wings, her wall is clunky to use and her R is as we both probably agree lackluster at best

totally agree although he needs a VO update too because he's using real world terminology (at least sometimes) and he shouldn't be

... yeah pretty much.

i don't think Brand should have a stun period. 1 it kinda doesn't make sense. 2 he has those high af damage numbers and 3 if he had a slow instead at least I could attempt to move away from my team when he decides to throw R into us. As it stand pillar of flame is too good early, and R is too good in team fights especially if you get stuck with the mountain map

I don't think Tryndamere's later game ability is the problem. I think it's specifically that his first few levels that is really problematic, which is because he can double/triple crit, getting him fed and snowballing, getting him to that Sanguine+Essence Reaver powerspike quicker. I just think that he either a. needs not to have crit chance passively, or b. have his crit damage reduced early.

Caitlyn I accidentally said E instead of W there. Her traps are the biggest problem, IMO. Her net is actually perfectly fine in my eyes. Her Q I just think needs to be something that doesn't have the ability to hit both enemy laners and the whole wave, but aside from that, I think it's fine.

Vladimir I proposed my idea for his R. His W, I'd suggest that he needs to have a certain amount of max HP, and that it takes 25% max HP instead of current HP.

Anivia The auto attack thing is just down to a visual change. Her wall, I do agree on. She should have something that can let her block off escapes, but the wall is very clunky.

His damage, in my opinion, is something that needs to be nerfed, not reworked. He works too well as a champ that can flex to either mid or support. I say that they either remove his stun and make his damage more befitting of an immobile midlane mage, or nerf his damage a lot, give him a better stun and make him into a solid support. Not really a rework type situation.

Tr4shB4NSYST3MNov 23, 20191 votes

I would say if were going by riot's previous rework reasons (outdated kit w/ lots of point/click etc, which got Akali/ww their reworks), then i would say the top of the list would be Udyr Tryndamere Teemo and possibly Fiddlesticks and also possibly DrMundo

IMO these champs have the (older) kits in league that have aged the most poorly with how they game has evolved.

CaptainAntiHerozNov 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I would say if were going by riot's previous rework reasons (outdated kit w/ lots of point/click etc, which got Akali/ww their reworks), then i would say the top of the list would be and possibly and also possibly

IMO these champs have the (older) kits in league that have aged the most poorly with how they game has evolved.

fiddle is already getting a rework along side volibear where have been u been this whole time?

ReallydunnoNov 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I would say if were going by riot's previous rework reasons (outdated kit w/ lots of point/click etc, which got Akali/ww their reworks), then i would say the top of the list would be and possibly and also possibly

IMO these champs have the (older) kits in league that have aged the most poorly with how they game has evolved.

Tryndamere You can see my full explanation for him in the reply to CaptainAntiHeroz.

Udyr Yeah. He has too much of a "durr I'm gonna run at them and kill them" playstyle. I don't know what exactly to do for him, though.

Teemo I also think he needs one, but not as urgently as the other four. He's a very specific counter to melee auto attackers in the early game, and doesn't really fit the "scout" playstyle. I say to keep the poison and shrooms, just to make the poison a passive for when he gets his ult, so that he doesn't feel like an annoying on hit child from the very beginning. I say to make his Q some sort of net that slows enemies, and, if they're close to a wall when hit or run for too long after being hit, they get rooted. His W, I say should be some sort of short range roll, similarly to Aatrox E but with a different animation, and to have the passive of his current W.

DrMundo I also already explained this guy in CaptainAntiHeroz's reply.

Fiddlesticks Is getting a full rework, but I actually say to specifically not change his fear. It's pretty important for the purpose of keeping super mobile champs from annihilating botlane early, which is very important. Aside from that, basically everything he has needs a rework. His passive might be the weirdest I've ever seen, his W is useless after they reworked fear so it makes them run away, his E is probably the worst silence in the game, and his ult is honestly the worst AOE damage ult in the game, save for the numbers on it.