Can we buff Shen yet?

Gank Top 4 Succ··3 votes·1,178 views

In the League of Tanks, Shen's really starting to show his age. Let's get down to the details of what exactly needs to be done!

His passive. Probably Shen's greatest source of damage past 20 minutes. This passive enhances Shen's next basic attack, causing it to do bonus damage equal to a flat amount, and scales with Shen's level and bonus HP. This ability is perfect on him, as it actually scales with items Shen will build. The issue comes with its CD, which is quite long. Sure, it's reduced when Shen auto attacks, which is great for laning, but Shen isn't able to stick to targets well enough late game to reap the full benefits.

His Q. This is Shen's main offensive poke in lane. Admittedly, it has no counter-play whatsoever and can be a real nuisance to whoever Shen is laning against. The damage and sustain it provides allow Shen to lane very well, but the ability becomes practically useless outside of laning phase due to the fact that it scales with AP, which Shen will almost never build due to his role as a tank.

His W. Shen's shield is a great tool for winning trades in lane, but like his Q it becomes unnoticeable the later the game goes because it scales with AP. Also, it's one of the only shields in the game that does not provide a great secondary effect when activated. Sure, it helps lower the CD of his passive, but that requires Shen to be constantly auto'ing and somehow sticking to his target the entire time. This reward is not instant like other shields, such as Urgot's, Riven's, Naut's, Lee's, etc.

His E. This ability, I feel, is completely fine the way it is. It provides utility, a gap closer, and CC all on one ability. It has many uses as both an escape and engage tool.

His R. Probably Shen's most powerful tool. I global ultimate that shields an ally and teleports Shen to them after a short channel. This is his identity, and fits his role well as a tanky guardian. It has good base values, and doesn't really need a change.

Now that we've gone through Shen's kit, let's talk about the issues of it. His passive, Q, and W feel like they were designed exclusively for the laning phase. His passive is too hard to proc more than once in teamfights, and he relies on the base values of his Q and W because they both scale with AP.

So what needs to be done? This is a tricky question, because straight up buffing numbers will make it even more anti-fun to lane against Shen. My first suggestion would be a change to his passive. A Sheen-like effect would work very well with Shen. Give it a static cooldown (3 seconds being an example) and make it so that it only enhances his next auto after he's used an ability, while letting it still scale with his HP. This gives Shen a more reliable source of damage in the late game as he won't be reliant on auto-ing non-stop in order to proc it again.

His Q is a tricky ability to balance without making his laning phase god-like. One approach could be to make it a skillshot, then compensate that with allowing it to scale with HP, at a small rate of course. This makes it a lot easier to play against Shen, as you won't be eating Q after Q after Q because he can no longer reliably hit you whenever it comes off cooldown. But in the case that he does land it, it'll now do more damage and will actually pose a threat in the late game.

Shen's shield is arguably the weakest in the game. It doesn't scale with any items he builds, and has no secondary effect that immediately benefits him. An easy fix would be to make it scale with HP like Naut's, but I don't believe that is the best approach seeing as his passive already scales with HP and the change to his Q would do the same. Leave the AP scaling, maybe buff the base values, but give it an impactful effect while the shield persists. There are a lot of directions that can be taken when deciding what secondary effect to give it. Bonus magic damage on autos would highlight Shen's lane dueling. Having his autos slow enemies while the shield is up would give him a source of CC outside of his taunt, and would allow him to focus down carries in teamfights.

Keep in mind that these are all my opinions on changes that need to be made to Shen. Buff Shen 2k15. Shen

16 Comments

TeemoJenkins1 votes

Yes please! Buff him! My 55% W/R and 3 to 1 KDA needs padding!

Gank Top 4 Succ2 votes

{quoted}

Yes please! Buff him! My 55% W/R and 3 to 1 KDA needs padding!

A 20 game sample size from one player doesn't mean anything to the overall argument.

Pythagorean Thm1 votes

He was literally just buffed in patch 5.11

Gank Top 4 Succ1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hatch RawerBeryl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=giifQTOF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-23T19:34:31.787+0000)

He was literally just buffed in patch 5.11

True, but those buffs were more about making changes that Shen should've had from the beginning. There's still almost no reason to pick him over any other meta top laner atm. Champions like Maokai bring more reliable CC, more damage, and the same amount of tankiness.

Abyssphere1 votes

He just got a ton of buffs and it wasn't that long ago that he got more of them. This thread acts as if he's been ignored for years.

Gank Top 4 Succ2 votes

{quoted}

He just got a ton of buffs and it wasn't that long ago that he got more of them. This thread acts as if he's been ignored for years.

A ton of buffs? 2 seconds on his passive, 20 energy on max rank E, and finally gets MR/lvl like he should've had from the beginning. All his other "buffs" from season 5 patches were QoL changes, the only major one being R CD.

Abyssphere2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bukkake Boi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=giifQTOF,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-06-23T20:50:01.480+0000)

A ton of buffs? 2 seconds on his passive, 20 energy on max rank E, and finally gets MR/lvl like he should've had from the beginning. All his other "buffs" from season 5 patches were QoL changes, the only major one being R CD.

2 seconds on his passive and an energy cost reduction of 20 are big buffs. Just because he should have had MR scaling a long time ago doesn't mean having 22 more MR at level 18 than he used to isn't a buff either.

And you're misusing the term "QoL change" atrociously here. A QoL change is something that makes a champion feel better but doesn't affect their power level. The previous 20 energy cost reduction on his E and the cooldown reduction on his ultimate are buffs, that's that. The thing about placing him in front of the person he jumps to was admittedly more fitting as a QoL change but even that I'd consider an outright buff.

I really don't know how terrible you think Shen is but they've improved him massively since this season began. They've been paying a lot of attention to him so if he still sucks then I'm sure there will be more within the next few months but I really don't think he's bad or I dread to think just how worthless he was before Riot started buffing him.

Gank Top 4 Succ2 votes

{quoted}

2 seconds on his passive and an energy cost reduction of 20 are big buffs. Just because he should have had MR scaling a long time ago doesn't mean having 22 more MR at level 18 than he used to isn't a buff either.

And you're misusing the term "QoL change" atrociously here. A QoL change is something that makes a champion feel better but doesn't affect their power level. The previous 20 energy cost reduction on his E and the cooldown reduction on his ultimate are buffs, that's that. The thing about placing him in front of the person he jumps to was admittedly more fitting as a QoL change but even that I'd consider an outright buff.

I really don't know how terrible you think Shen is but they've improved him massively since this season began. They've been paying a lot of attention to him so if he still sucks then I'm sure there will be more within the next few months but I really don't think he's bad or I dread to think just how worthless he was before Riot started buffing him.

That's the thing; he's not terrible. He's a good example of a balanced champion, but in this meta there are so many champions that bring so much more to the table. Shen just becomes a walking taunt late game whilst other tanks are capable of solo'ing carries.

Skia Asteri1 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Shen/Top

22064 game sample size for the current patch.

That is a very good win rate considering most players in the sample have 1 to 5 ranked games with him.

He is far from being the champion most in need of attention.

Gank Top 4 Succ2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=giifQTOF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-06-23T21:38:56.445+0000)

http://champion.gg/champion/Shen/Top

22064 game sample size for the current patch.

That is a very good win rate considering most players in the sample have 1 to 5 ranked games with him.

He is far from being the champion most in need of attention.

You can look at numbers all you want, but have you actually played the champion recently? The only reason he has an above average winrate is his teamfighting with E. Individually, Shen cannot stand up to any other meta top in terms of damage.

NemeBro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bukkake Boi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=giifQTOF,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-06-23T21:51:43.401+0000)

You can look at numbers all you want, but have you actually played the champion recently? The only reason he has an above average winrate is his teamfighting with E. Individually, Shen cannot stand up to any other meta top in terms of damage.

No, but he outstrips all of them in terms of survivability. There is no top laner that dies less often than Shen on average. None of them bag as many assists either, since, you know, he has a global teleport ult to save his buddy and get fed.

Shen may lack the damage of other top laners, but he is perfectly capable of beating the shit out of many of them once his build gets going. He's also one of the best anti-snowball champions in the game.

Gank Top 4 Succ2 votes

{quoted}

No, but he outstrips all of them in terms of survivability. There is no top laner that dies less often than Shen on average. None of them bag as many assists either, since, you know, he has a global teleport ult to save his buddy and get fed.

Shen may lack the damage of other top laners, but he is perfectly capable of beating the shit out of many of them once his build gets going. He's also one of the best anti-snowball champions in the game.

As a teamfighting champ, I agree that Shen is great. But as a solo laner, he gets dumpstered by almost everyone else. Put him against the likes of Gnar and Rumble and he struggles due to being shoved to tower all day.

NemeBro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bukkake Boi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=giifQTOF,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-23T22:03:19.233+0000)

As a teamfighting champ, I agree that Shen is great. But as a solo laner, he gets dumpstered by almost everyone else. Put him against the likes of Gnar and Rumble and he struggles due to being shoved to tower all day.

It's not hard to farm under tower as Shen, to be honest. His Q and his passive are great for it.

Gnar also loses to Shen more often than he wins.

Gank Top 4 Succ1 votes

{quoted}

It's not hard to farm under tower as Shen, to be honest. His Q and his passive are great for it.

Gnar also loses to Shen more often than he wins.

In a 1v1 scenario, no. In a 5v5 scenario, yes because Shen is much better at peeling. I never said he couldn't farm under tower, but by pushing him under tower, the Shen player is forced to use his Q's to farm rather than poke.

Arsames1 votes

All shen needs is redesign Q to skill shot and give powerful reward for hitting it. Slightly rework his shield so it is relevant late game.

Gank Top 4 Succ2 votes

{quoted}

All shen needs is redesign Q to skill shot and give powerful reward for hitting it. Slightly rework his shield so it is relevant late game.

That's what I'm asking for; a little more power to his laning and shield. But everyone seems to disagree.

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