[Reminder] You need to play Yasuo to suggest a nerf for Yasuo

Yaśuo Main·Dec 27, 2016·20 votes·1,258 views

This would lead to more accurate suggestions and less flaming, thank you.

52 Comments

FantasySniperDec 27, 20165 votes

This is just like the "you need to be Daimond or better" argument.

"Play the champ to beat the champ" is the same as saying "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

Playing a champion doesn't magically instill weaknesses into that very same champion. There are plenty of ways to learn weaknesses (that may or may not exist) without investing 100+ hours to master the champion.

AhristocatsDec 27, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Playing a champion doesn't magically instill weaknesses into that very same champion.

yes it fucking does

when you play the champion you suddenly realise what to do against him, if it doesn't have weaknesses then you will have 90% win rate with the champ which won't happen

in yasuo's case people don't understand that when his shield is off he becomes extremely squishy due to his base stats, even if he built frozen mallet.

i can oneshot yasuo as support brand if yasuo shield isn't up , the dude doesn't even have mr/lvl, windwall? np i comeback in 5 seconds

PennsDec 27, 20161 votes

Thing is, with the champ I play I cant get rid of his shield without taking at least 150 dmg for it, so Id rather not deal with a Yasuo lol. But Id also rather ban Rengar Janna before him

MarshbouyDec 27, 20162 votes

Unless you are melee his shield is incredibly easy to get rid of. Even if you are melee it is still easy to get rid of (if you have a long range spell). Just auto attack him once or throw a long range spell at him, then wait.

FantasySniperDec 27, 20163 votes

"incredibly easy to get rid of"

When you tap Yasuo. Yasuo "taps" you.

MarshbouyDec 27, 20163 votes

How? With his 550 range AAs? If you pick a shitty time to attack him, of course he's going to tap you back. If you tap him when he get's his tornado up and all the minions are off E cd, of course you are going to get tapped back. If you tap him right after he used his tornado and the minions are on CD then you are not going to get tapped back.

Yaśuo MainDec 27, 20161 votes

whats a shitty time to AA from a distance, his E isnt that big

FantasySniperDec 27, 20161 votes

His [E] has a range of 475, granted it usually slightly less, but his auto range is 175 and his [Q] has a range of 475. It's quite easy for him start a trade with literally anyone that doesn't stay a mile away from their minion wave.

Spicy RiceDec 28, 20161 votes

You know, you just need to auto.

If he starts coming at you, combo him.

FantasySniperDec 27, 20161 votes

Your minions are in lane, what, 90% of the time? That makes a great majority of the time in lane "a shitty time to fight him".

GULAG 4 UDec 27, 20164 votes

If you are melee you don't get rid of the shield. You can literally faceroll over it.

Spicy RiceDec 28, 20161 votes

This so much. Yasuo has to poke you down immensely for him to straight win a melee 1v1

PennsDec 27, 20161 votes

Fizz feelsbadman If I want to get rid of his shield just to prepare for a trade, I take a auto-Q to the face.

Spicy RiceDec 28, 20161 votes

To be fair, fizz doesn't really need to poke down his shield. Fizz can kinda just trade and kill him

AhristocatsDec 27, 20161 votes

i completly agree that melees have troubles against yasuo shield.

MarshbouyDec 27, 20164 votes

This is just like the "you need to be Daimond or better" argument.

No. It's not. Playing 5 games to learn a champions weakness is different than playing 1000 games of ranked to climb to diamond.

"Play the champ to beat the champ" is the same as saying "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

No. it's not. "Play the champ to beat the champ" just means that if you play the champion, you will probably learn ways of countering them that you did not realize before.

Sraeg2013Dec 27, 20162 votes

"Play the champ to beat the champ" is the same as saying "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

Then you try playing that "OP broken uncounterable" champion and get dumpstered by the next guy you're facing in lane.

Knowing what a champion does, is the basis of countering them, but without actually playing them, the knowledge goes to waste.

FantasySniperDec 28, 20161 votes

"Without actually playing them, you'll never be able to counter them."

Isn't the whole point learning how to play against them, not as them?

Like I said, playing a champion doesn't magically instill weaknesses into them. Their kit doesn't change just by playing a different point of view. You might as well should learn one of their counter-picks instead and make much more progress.

Sraeg2013Dec 28, 20161 votes

Isn't the whole point learning how to play against them, not as them?

"If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat."

You might as well should learn one of their counter-picks instead and make much more progress.

Wrong. You will do less progress, because you only know how to deal with a champion with that particular counterpick. If you play as the champion you want to counter, you will naturally play against a higher number of counterpicks, each bringing something new to the mix.

FantasySniperDec 29, 20161 votes

Learning both champs takes twice the time.

Learning one champ and becoming comfortable with their playstyle is more efficient.

There's all sorts of threads talking about "comfort picks" that can handle even bad matchups well.

Imagine what happens when you make the counterpick your comfort pick, instead of wasting your time learning the champion you never intend to play, but instead fight.

Sraeg2013Dec 29, 20161 votes

No, it doesn't.

If for any reason you aren't able to pick your "comfort" pick, you lose. If you have knowledge of the enemy champion, you have 10 "comfort" picks instead of 1.

FantasySniperDec 30, 20161 votes

If you have knowledge of the enemy champion, but no knowledge of the champion you're playing, you're nowhere near "comfort", you're just screwed.

Sraeg2013Dec 30, 20161 votes

And if you only know your "comfort" champion, then you are screwed too.

Well, on the flip side the situation you described as "screwed" is still better, because you should be able to play multiple champions on a bearably decent level.

Or am I the only one who ever played more than 10 champions?

MartensiticDec 27, 20165 votes

You need to play Yasuo to suggest a nerf for Yasuo

By that "logic", an oncologist needs to have cancer in order to treat his patients.

RavenhaleDec 27, 20168 votes

By that "logic", you would need a Degree in LoL to play LoL.

MartensiticDec 27, 20163 votes

A lot (not all) of the players who make VALID arguments as to why Yasuo should be nerfed, don't play him.

These players however, have experience playing against the champion or having him on their own teams, so in a way, yes, they have a "degree in lol". Same as the oncologist doesn't need to experience cancer on himself to know the mechanisms of the disease and how to treat it, a player who is familiar with this game doesn't need to play a champion to spot obvious problems with its design / strength.

Thanks for confirming my logic. I know you tried to be sarcastic, but it didn't work out, sorry.

RavenhaleDec 27, 20168 votes

You tried to be cute and I pointed out an error in your analogy. You stated a profession that requires a degree. You don't get to be an oncologist simply because you have had family that died from cancer and you read a lot of online material about the subject.

MartensiticDec 27, 20163 votes

You tried to be cute and I pointed out an error in your analogy.

You pointed out nothing. An oncologists education is formalized and regulated (thank god), but other than that, it is just gathering knowledge, skills and experience about a topic.

There was no error in the analogy, you just tried to construct one.

RavenhaleDec 27, 20167 votes

If we wish to continue with oncologist = players that don't play Yasuo and cancer = yasuo...

then I guess Plat + rank = degree in LoL.

MartensiticDec 27, 20163 votes

then I guess Plat + rank = degree in LoL.

My point exactly. And reaching that conclusion, you now see why OPs point is wrong. An experienced player can make a valid assessment about a champion without playing him.

Should we listen to Bronze V players who just lost a game and vent their anger about their lane opponent? No.

Should we listen to experienced players providing feedback that is not biased by abusing a FotM? Absolutely.

RavenhaleDec 27, 20165 votes

I thought it reasonable to presume OP was aiming this remark at the majority playerbase.

I don't disagree with the assessment that someone, whom is in the ELO where the game has been stated to be balanced for, is allowed to make calls on balance even for a champion they have not played as. It would be unusual for anyone to climb the ladder that far without any games with or against Yasuo.

I'm unsure if Plat is viewed as highly as it was before the Dynamic Queue of Season 6. There were so many complaint threads of Dynamic Queue boosting that the standards may have changed.

MartensiticDec 27, 20163 votes

I thought it reasonable to presume OP was aiming this remark at the majority playerbase.

Which is exactly the problem: He was aiming it at everyone.

To me, this thread is carrying a simple message: "i am a yasuo abuser and i don't like the increasing chance of riot finally nerfing my champion (which i know he deserves), so i want to shut out everyone who isn't also abusing his current power and enjoying it from the discussion, hoping that fellow yasuo abusers won't comment on his overly obvious problems."

And that Yasuo is in need of a tune down is not disputeable. I will not cite the reasons here, better players than me have done that to death, and you seem like an informed individual, so no doubt you are familiar with it.

The way I see it, there are 2 ways how this conundrum can go down:

Yasuo "mains" (aka. FotM abusers) can continue to shout down everyone. Based on Riots actions in similar cases, this will go bad for Yasuo, very bad. Like as not, he will be trash tier after the rework.
Yasuo "mains" and mains actually engage in discussion about the champions problems, the rational people find solutions, and Riot has meterial to work with, without destroying the champion.

Its up to the Yasuo players which one it will be.

RavenhaleDec 27, 20163 votes

They will be on the same page as Rengar mains. They will agree to certain nerfs that would allow their main to not be perma banned. And I do think it reasonable to conclude that Plat + ban rates imply something is wrong about a champion (either too strong or too annoying to deal with). Anything over 25% should be looked at, regardless of win rate. Ideally bans would be more spread out and meant to give your intended laners an advantage.

I still remember the Rioter that defended Yasuo's windwall with a statement of it being fine that Yasuo's Ult can block other champions' Ults. Community had a field day with that.

MartensiticDec 28, 20161 votes

Exactly.

Spicy RiceDec 29, 20162 votes

No offense, but you sound salty af.

Most yasuo mains I have talked to on r/yasuomains agree that he doesn't need changes

MartensiticDec 29, 20161 votes

No offense, but you sound salty af.

The mind of the facebook "educated" generation: "If I don't have an argument, I call my opponent mad, salty or angry, and delude myself into thinking that I have made a point"

Spicy RiceDec 29, 20161 votes

Except

A. I wasn't arguing against you, I was stating my opinion on how your comment sounds.

B. My second statement which you didn't quote contains some evidence against what you said in your comment.

C. You basically did the same thing that you said I am doing by implying that I am part of a generation that is primarily made up of children

Tl;Dr Get your head out of your self righteous ass

MartensiticDec 29, 20161 votes

I wasn't arguing against you, I was stating my opinion on how your comment sounds.

So you admit that you have no point besides your opinion? Glad we sorthed that out.

B. My second statement which you didn't quote contains some evidence against what you said in your comment.

"I talked to some guys somewhere" is not evidence of anything.

C. You basically did the same thing that you said I am doing by implying that I am part of a generation that is primarily made up of children

Not at all, a lot of children are much too smart to fall for the facebook-BS.

Tl;Dr Get your head out of your self righteous ass

Wow, what an adult demeanour.

GULAG 4 UDec 27, 20164 votes

Water u seying??? Y shuld i use my brain when I khan just join dee circlejerk to gut trashuo xddd

MarshbouyDec 27, 20162 votes

XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD

MarshbouyDec 27, 20162 votes

I want to add something very important. This does not always work In most(if not all) elos there are people who do not understand how to play against a champion, so you must play at least a few games of that champion in order to begin to truly understand how to face them. If you play Yasuo once, face some dude going first time mid lane, win, and go 25/2/25. You might end up thinking that Yasuo is completely overpowered and not change your view at all. If you play 5 games of Yasuo and face a few people who understand how to counter him, you will be much better off.

Spicy RiceDec 28, 20161 votes

Hence why you don't play just 1 game...

Papa AndreiDec 27, 20162 votes

Not true. Never once played A Sol, Talkyah, Kled, Ivern, but i can easily understand their strenghts and weaknesses.

Yaśuo MainDec 28, 20161 votes

None of those are as strong in all phases of the game like Yasuo, but you have a point.

L0ve Is BlueDec 27, 20162 votes

To be honest Yasuo is so overplayed and I've played against him so much that I could almost consider myself a Yasuo main in term of knowledge of the champion since I know everything about how he is played without having played him at all.

GULAG 4 UDec 27, 20162 votes

Until you play the champ you don't understand what is good or bad on it

ImTheSideKickDec 27, 20161 votes

played him once. had no idea what I was doing. just dashed as many times as I could and threw up a wall when I believed skill shots was coming... got a double kill early... and late game was able to 1v5 the enemy team... I literally was just going to be bait so my team could get a free baron. got caught. fought... killed every one by never stop moving around or knocking people up every 3 seconds.... I wanted to throw up after that

anyways... as for nerfs I don't know would be nice if there was a small delay on his dash at lvl 1 maybe a second or two before he could cast it again. and then this delay dropping to nothing at max rank... that way you have to actually use the dash skillfully / mindfully .... and I don't mean on the same target ... casting again period

GULAG 4 UDec 27, 20161 votes

Do you play in bronze? Because any monkey can play yasuo in low Elo

JorenciceDec 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Lennymlg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ggzuaqax,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-27T13:53:09.824+0000)

This would lead to more accurate suggestions and less flaming, thank you.

Thats like saying u need to be a 5 star chef to be a food critic...

Or you need to be a movie director to be a movie critic...

Spicy RiceDec 28, 20161 votes

It's saying that if you wanna critique French cuisine, you better have eaten it for a bit first