Anivia adjustments on PBE require compensatory buffs

Retard Slayer·Sep 9, 2016·7 votes·1,286 views

Nerfing the R-E/E-R combo without giving Anivia any form of compensatory buffs is pretty much putting her in the garbage can. She already has a bad pre-six laning phase against a competent player. Even after hitting level 6, it's not like she can completely screw the other enemy laner. She has massive mana costs compared to other mages. The nerfs don't make much difference to her team fighting, but waiting around for a few seconds just to do the full 200% damage against another laner is ridiculous and will never happen against someone who isn't playing on a wheelchair. If she does less damage with her combo at the very least, lower the mana cost or give some sort of compensatory buff so she doesn't completely get dumpstered in lane even after hitting six.

These changes are going to affect her post-six gameplay dramatically. There is absolutely no way someone is going to just stand there in her ulti until it grows to full size for her to do maximum DPS. Nerfing her combo without giving her any compensation will make it so that she won't even be able to play aggressively. Inb4 "hurdur e-r is easy to land. this makes anivia require more skill to play". No it doesn't. Anyone that thinks that is actually in a wheelchair. It changes absolutely nothing about her teamfight because a well positioned ult will be in full size and she will pretty much do the same damage. Her laning phase is going to be even more shocking though because she is going to OOM before being able to kill or properly zone her opponents out of lane. Before 6 she can't afford to use her abilities as often as other mages to farm waves. In fact, she has absolutely no dps against a good player if she uses a single ability.

Edit; Yeah I can't be bothered trying to reason anymore. In fact, why am I even bothering to reason to Bronze-Silver players that are telling me Anivia's Q is hard to dodge. Zzzz...

22 Comments

L0ve Is BlueSep 9, 20165 votes

Oh please don't start buffing Anivia. She deserves to be nerfed. He damage is amazing, her passive makes her super safe against early game agressor and ganks and she has amazing utility with her wall+AOE stun+AOE DOT slow. And potential to make picks with her E. She only has 1 weakness and its that she is immobile. Otherwise she has all the range, CC, damage and safety any mage could dream of.

Retard SlayerSep 9, 20165 votes

You obviously have never played Anivia. She can't consistently farm+harass like other mages unless she has blue buff on top of absolutely ZERO damage items for her first 1-2k of gold depending on playstyle. She's also easy to tower dive with the right champions. Her egg means absolutely nothing if she's under tower and another laner is within range to poke her and coordinate tower damage with the other jungler. Also, the passive has a long cooldown, so she's pretty much passiveless after getting egged. Her "AoE stun" is probably one of the slowest projectiles in the game and honestly anyone who gets hit by that enough to get killed before six belongs on a wheelchair and deserves to stay in Bronze-Silver.

L0ve Is BlueSep 9, 20162 votes

Not like I'm mastery 5 with her XD

She can't consistently farm+harass like other mages unless she has blue buff on top of absolutely ZERO damage items for her first 1-2k of gold depending on playstyle.

Her ult is enough to consistently farm and harrass by its own and the 25% mana cost reduction from tear is more than enough to have a decent time in lane before you have to back. Then with catalyst you are pretty much ok, considering your tear stacks like crazy because of her ult. And you don't need to actualy build damage because your kit is full of it.

The only change now is that he E require some actual skills to be used with a 350 BASE DAMAGE+ 100% SCALING. Using your R and then instantly pressing E to deal a shit ton of damage doesn't feel fair. To be honest I play Anivia when I wanna be sure I win and I usualy do when I play with her because she just has everything a champion need to carry and without much effort but waiting until you have 2 items.

Retard SlayerSep 9, 20163 votes

"More skill"? NO ONE is actually stupid enough to stand in her ultimate at FULL size after they see her using it. She will not be able to max her DPS dueling someone unless they literally walk back into her ulti and get stunned in it. No competent player will actually be getting hit by the full damage of her R-E unless they're in a teamfight and happen to waltz in on it. This is what I don't get when you say it's going to require "more skill". Sure for her Q-E, you'll need to actually stun them. But there is no way on earth someone is going to enter back into her ulti when it grows at full range so she won't actually be able to do her max DPS post-six. Also, if you're encouraging her to do that, it's going to end up costing EVEN MORE mana on top of her live version to actually hit someone for full damage with R-E. To clarify, I'm only talking about her laning phase post-six. Her teamfight will still be fine.

Right now, E-R or R-E after six makes you completely oom on top of pushing back your minions without blue. But to get full damage on her PBE version, you need to WAIT until her ultimate is at max size (which btw requires MORE MANA).

RequiemsfireSep 9, 20162 votes

What he's basically saying is that it's going harder but more rewarding for Anivia players to gain the full damage from their E as opposed to cheaply pressing R and pressing E to chunk for nearly half health to which there is no real counterplay for dealing with.

L0ve Is BlueSep 9, 20161 votes

"More skill"? NO ONE is actually stupid enough to stand in her ultimate at FULL size after they see her using it.

Want to make a pick: use Q then E

Teamfight: use R then E

Simple as that. You shouldn't be able to make a pick by applying an instant AOE DOT that slows and then use your targeted 100% scaling damage spell. Simple as that. Riot saw it and Anivia is getting a well deserved nerf.

She will not be able to max her DPS dueling someone unless they literally walk back into her ulti and get stunned in it.

Maybe because she is not a duelist? She is a zone control mage. If she wants to duel she still has the potential to do it but now need to land a spell (Q). And let's be honest her E still deals 75%AP+262 damage without the ''iced'' component wich is pretty decent.

But there is no way on earth someone is going to enter back into her ulti when it grows at full range.

Yo. Thats exactly what they are trying to do with those nerf. Its leggit UNFAIR that anivia can instantly double her E damage just by using an instant aoe on you. 150% damage is MORE than enough of a ''reward'' to ''land'' your ult on someone. Rightnow it's just '' I'm going to deal a shit ton of damage to you whenever you enter my range every 6 seconds.''

it's going to end up costing EVEN MORE mana on top of her live version to actually hit someone for full damage with R-E.

Hey! She now has an actual weakness! Here we go we have a balanced champion now.

RequiemsfireSep 9, 20162 votes

Just gonna put this out there, they actually buffed her Q's travel speed, it's fairly hard to dodge now as opposed to what it was before. Yeah, I play Anivia, farming pre-6 is hell, but post 6 it's very easy after you build the correct items to sustain yourself.

Retard SlayerSep 9, 20161 votes

In games where people are actually competent and paying attention, it's not as easy as you think to just land it anytime you want unless someone screws up pretty hard. With all the mobility that is attached onto every champion being released nowadays, her Q is actually one of the easiest abilities to dodge. The moment she misses that before six, she's pretty much free. Which is why she gets such a huge spike post-six.

L0ve Is BlueSep 9, 20161 votes

Hard to land= big reward. 200% damage on E is a lot of damage and should require a lot of skills to attain.

RequiemsfireSep 9, 20162 votes

I just want to chime in that she actually can just R E especially since she can simply use her wall which has a much longer range and then burst you down without any real counterplay as opposed to rewarding a player for landing their Q. Since the mid season patch mana isn't as much of an issue as it used to be and if she manages to grab an early tear/catalyst it gets so much easier to just spam your abilities.

I think her midseason buffs were really strong, i believe she curently ranks as God tier for ranked.

Retard SlayerSep 9, 20162 votes

If she is purely focusing on trying to kill you, sure. She can use her combo a few times. However a lot of laners that she goes up against will attempt to push as hard as they can into Anivia. Even after getting tear/catalyst, she can only harass a few times because she actually needs to be able to push her wave back. This is without any blue buffs. Her mana costs just to push a wave is insane. Other mages have the luxury of actually being able to consistently harass you while also pushing the wave and having enough mana to do more. She can't. That's why this nerf is going to mess with her dueling potential big time after level 6. These changes don't actually make her require more skill in anyway apart from landing Q, but unless you're against someone really mobile, you want to always hit the stun as opposed to just slowing anyway so the Q makes no difference. Its the ulti-e interaction that will mess with Anivia unless she gets some sort of compensatory buffs.

RequiemsfireSep 9, 20161 votes

As anivia currently is, you can miss the stun all together and still deal a ton of burst damage with thunderlords decree, the increased damage over time, from standing within the ult, and Anivia's wall to force them to go around or burn their flash to have any chance of escape. Basically if she's winning lane, she becomes downright oppressive to anyone who isn't mobile especially once you have both tear of the goddess and ROA are starting to stack because that really helps with Anivia's mana costs.

Retard SlayerSep 9, 20161 votes

Anivia isn't a champion that was designed to be a good laner before six though. That's why any good player will find ways to mess with her before six. Her aggression is way more noticeable after six, but if she doesn't have blue buff, she will just go oom if she pushes + harasses at the same time. It's not hard to play against an Anivia, esp if they are pushed hard under their tower and forced to use some abilities to last hit minions. I wouldn't really care that much about these nerfs if they gave her some sort of compensatory minor buffs. Also, what champion isn't somewhat oppressive if they're winning mid lane..?

Maximum MordeSep 9, 20162 votes

How about you land a Q then?

Retard SlayerSep 9, 20162 votes

I'm not talking about that. Assuming the player is experienced with her, Q will eventually hit. This makes absolutely no difference to her pre-six laning as I said (unless someone routinely uses the Q without stunning). Her post-six will be screwed because she will oom before she can even do her comboes a few times because of the DPS nerf with the E-R interaction. No one is autistic enough to actually stand in your ulti at max range in a 1v1 situation. Even if you land Q on them, you're never actually going to do max dps on Anivia with her R-E interaction. That's why she needs compensatory buffs. Perhaps make her ult grow faster or reduce her mana costs a bit.

Maximum MordeSep 9, 20163 votes

Q->E Still does full damage if you land the detonation. Otherwise you can still get 150% from R->E or non-detonation Q->E, which is pretty reasonable.

The E issue was her damage was too damn high for how easy it was to apply. Her mana issue is a separate one, and with build adjustments isn't/won't be the doomsday you are predicting. She will still be useable, we just won't see her anymore because people only play broken.

Pika FoxSep 9, 20162 votes

Im pretty sure the entire point was making it so that she couldnt just R E and making landing Q more important. Why would riot want to give her compensation if theyre obviously trying to trim her free damage?

Face it, anivia's RE combo has always been an issue with her. They chose to limit how easy it was to get full access out of it without straight up removing damage.

MarshbouySep 9, 20161 votes

You got a link to the nerfs....?

Retard SlayerSep 9, 20161 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/09/97-pbe-update.html

Flash Frost (Q) : Pass through slow now referred to as [Chilling] enemies. Now applies [Iced] to targets hit with the detonation.

Frostbite (E) damage has been changed! Rather than dealing double damage to enemies slowed by Q/R, E now deals different bonus damage based on [Iced]or [Chilled]. [CHILLED] targets take 150% damage and [ICED] targets take 200%

Glacial Storm (R) Normal slow now referred to as [Chilling] enemies. The full blown storm (max damage & slow) now applies [ICED] to enemies caught in it.

MarshbouySep 9, 20161 votes

So basically it's making it so that anivia actually has to try to get 1k damage off on me? Sweet

RequiemsfireSep 9, 20161 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html