Wanna know if anyone at Riot has any idea whats going to happen to Kat 
now that Leblanc and Rengar have been reverted to increase kill times. Not asking for a revert, just wondering if Kat will get any QOL of life changes to increase her kill times too or are they gonna leave her in the dust?
Poske1 votesI am losing brain cells reading boards nowdays
Rengar Swim Q (Altough it looked dumb) > Rengar new Q Reworked le blanc > Revert gutted le blanc 2nd Katarina rework > any Katarina
Are you actually implying with your fking post that Katarina isnt killing enough?
KàtàrÏnà1 votesI'm implying that it takes 1.5 seconds to throw a dagger up and for it to land on the ground. Now pan to those death recaps late game where adcs and other assassins kills faster than 1.5 seconds while katarina has to wait for a dagger to land on the ground.
Azadethe1 votesThat's not even close to what happens. Kat players don't throw daggers to engage a fight. They Shunpo and R adcs. Daggers are thrown before-hand as a Shunpo reset point for if they need to get out. You RARELY see a pro drop a W dagger as a kill point.
VoraciousX2 votesI am losing brain cells reading boards nowdays
Rengar Swim Q (Altough it looked dumb) > Rengar new Q Reworked le blanc > Revert gutted le blanc 2nd Katarina rework > any Katarina
Are you actually implying with your fking post that Katarina isnt killing enough?
No, he's implying that Katarina doesn't kill FAST enough. You have to wait 1.25 seconds on your W to drop before you can move. Whereas everyone else who got delays is getting their delays reverted.
Katarina, Leblanc, and Rengar were the only 3 who got delays, whereas Katarina was the only one who's keeping her delays. The least they could do is bring dagger drops down to 0.5 seconds or even 0.75 seconds. Any less than 0.5 and it'd be a nerf, but 1.25 is pretty long considering ADCs can actually kill you before your dagger drops with all the enchanter supports running around with 3k health.
Poske1 votesNo, he's implying that Katarina doesn't kill FAST enough. You have to wait 1.25 seconds on your W to drop before you can move. Whereas everyone else who got delays is getting their delays reverted.
Katarina rework was huge success. without the delay she is a massive stat checker the delays should stay. There are still times when I insta burst people with katarina...
Le blanc is actually getting more delayed with a revert but you have to be A best of the best Le blanc players to understand that.
Katarina, Leblanc, and Rengar were the only 3 who got delays, whereas Katarina was the only one who's keeping her delays. The least they could do is bring dagger drops down to 0.5 seconds or even 0.75 seconds. Any less than 0.5 and it'd be a nerf, but 1.25 is pretty long considering ADCs can actually kill you before your dagger drops with all the enchanter supports running around with 3k health.
As far as Rengar goes:
Swim Q was better
Rengar actually lost his versaitility / bruiser prower for the sake of his assassination Power
Currently Rengar is back to hix toxic no counterplay one shot jump. I mean old rengar was terrorizing challenger elo, current rengar still is so there isnt much of a difference
Rengar does have a niche, he is arguably the fastest consistent very little skill one shoter who is practicly impossible to be one shoted Now is that a good niche? XD hm Guess
As far as Le blanc goes:
I can guarantee you if there are multiverses. NOT A SINGLE FKING POSKE IS happy with this revert. and I have around 4000 games on Le blanc
I will not write here an essay on why the Le blanc revert is VJKLASGFBJKLČESFGBSAKELČFHASEFKLČSHGASKLF because this is katarina thread
YOU SHOULD NOT BE WISHING ANYTHING WHICH HAPPEND TO LE BLANC / RENGAR, ANY SORT OF PHILOSPHY COME EVEN CLOSE TO KATARINA
VoraciousX1 votesKatarina rework was huge success. without the delay she is a massive stat checker the delays should stay. There are still times when I insta burst people with katarina...
Le blanc is actually getting more delayed with a revert but you have to be A best of the best Le blanc players to understand that.
As far as Rengar goes:
Swim Q was better
- Yes it looked ridicilus (I feel like this is the only reason it got reverted sadly)
- The burst was about the same there really isnt a difference between cosistent 0.15 one shot and consistent 0.07 one shot
Rengar actually lost his versaitility / bruiser prower for the sake of his assassination Power
Currently Rengar is back to hix toxic no counterplay one shot jump. I mean old rengar was terrorizing challenger elo, current rengar still is so there isnt much of a difference
Rengar does have a niche, he is arguably the fastest consistent very little skill one shoter who is practicly impossible to be one shoted Now is that a good niche? XD hm Guess
As far as Le blanc goes:
I can guarantee you if there are multiverses. NOT A SINGLE FKING POSKE IS happy with this revert. and I have around 4000 games on Le blanc
I will not write here an essay on why the Le blanc revert is VJKLASGFBJKLČESFGBSAKELČFHASEFKLČSHGASKLF because this is katarina thread
YOU SHOULD NOT BE WISHING ANYTHING WHICH HAPPEND TO LE BLANC / RENGAR, ANY SORT OF PHILOSPHY COME EVEN CLOSE TO KATARINA
I'm not saying the delays are bad, but I do feel they are too long in a world where all other assassins burst faster. 0.75 seconds or 0.5 seconds would be a lot better overall, because you can't burst faster than a Lulu can press W on you, shield their ADC, and then let their ADC kill you before the W ends. All of this which takes two button presses from the Lulu. The same can be said vs most enchanter supports, and with this being their job, it's very frustrating, especially considering these enchanters have health pools the size of a bruiser now, making it the wrong choice to go after them regardless because the enchanter's are too tanky to kill, so you can't make them shield themselves and then turn on the ADCs anymore, or vice versa.
As for the Leblanc revert. The rework was pretty bad honestly. Having your clone spawn on your ult first before actually using your ult didn't make sense, the delays were far too long. The only good thing that came out of it was the Q giving her waveclear. Old Leblanc was far more fun to play.
Poske1 votesI'm not saying the delays are bad, but I do feel they are too long in a world where all other assassins burst faster. 0.75 seconds or 0.5 seconds would be a lot better overall, because you can't burst faster than a Lulu can press W on you, shield their ADC, and then let their ADC kill you before the W ends. All of this which takes two button presses from the Lulu. The same can be said vs most enchanter supports, and with this being their job, it's very frustrating, especially considering these enchanters have health pools the size of a bruiser now, making it the wrong choice to go after them regardless because the enchanter's are too tanky to kill, so you can't make them shield themselves and then turn on the ADCs anymore, or vice versa.
Lulu herself is a problem.
Katarina is not a singletargeted assassin If daggers dropped faster at higher levels you would still have an issue of smoothness and consistency which would start bothering katarinas
You cannot have 1vs5 potentional which other assassins dont have and not have delays. I mean you can old katarina was like that but she sucked at 1vs1 and sucked in general unless she got ahead and she had no tools like current katarina in getting ahead
As for the Leblanc revert. The rework was pretty bad honestly. Having your clone spawn on your ult first before actually using your ult didn't make sense, the delays were far too long. The only good thing that came out of it was the Q giving her waveclear. Old Leblanc was far more fun to play.
You have no right to talk about her given that you cant play her or even played her
VoraciousX1 votesLulu herself is a problem.
Lulu isn't the only support that can be impossible to deal with as Katarina when facing an ADC on equal or even slightly less footing.
Katarina is not a singletargeted assassin If daggers dropped faster at higher levels you would still have an issue of smoothness and consistency which would start bothering katarinas
You cannot have 1vs5 potentional which other assassins dont have and not have delays. I mean you can old katarina was like that but she sucked at 1vs1 and sucked in general unless she got ahead and she had no tools like current katarina in getting ahead
0.5 or 0.75 seconds would be plenty of time for Katarina to react to it, which would not cause a problem with smoothness. I never said at higher levels btw, but if they DID make it at specific level thresholds, they wouldn't have to make it lose part of the delay every level. It could easily be like lose 0.25 seconds at level 9, and another 0.25 seconds at level 13, like most other passives that have level thresholds, and it wouldn't make it feel inconsistent either way because you're usually gonna be waiting for that dagger to drop normally anyways. All lowering the delay would do is make your combo faster. You're right about Katarina not being a single target assassin, and she pays for that in other ways than the delay on her dagger drop. If she didn't, she wouldn't have went so long without delays in her old kit. it doesn't make sense for an assassin to be forced to stand in a tiny area for longer than they need to, and 0.75 seconds would be perfectly acceptable imo, especially considering every other assassin that had delays are getting theirs completely removed. To be honest, if Katarina could land her daggers on an enemy with 0.75 seconds, she could with 1.25 seconds as well. Why? Because the only way someone's going to avoid getting hit by one of her daggers is if they walk into her when she Qs, or walks away from her as she shunpos to them. Think about it this way, you know how long a Irelia's stun feels like? That's how long Katarina's dagger drop would take if it were at 0.75 seconds. That's plenty of time. Not too long, not too short. You know how long a Heimerdinger stun lasts? That's how long it takes now.
You have no right to talk about her given that you cant play her or even played her
I used to play Leblanc quite a bit(before she lost her silence), I thought she was fun, but I always played other champions more. However I did play Leblanc enough to know what she was like before the rework and after the rework. You can't say someone has no right to talk about her simply because you dunno if they've ever played her, can play her, or can't. New Leblanc is not an assassin. That's why she's getting her revert. Another reason could also be because of the weird nature of her new R. While it is handy to have a mirror image scout for you, or use it to distract enemies, it was made awkwardly. If you haven't used your mirror image yet, then you have to use that before using your normal ulti. It's just strange and not right having to press a button twice, possibly wasting part of an ability just to use what you really want. Also, considering a majority of the world seems to agree with me(that's gotta be why they're reverting her rework, obviously, as that's why they did it to Rengar), I think I have a right to say old Leblanc was more fun.
[{quoted}](name=Infinite Naught,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gHrQpR6v,comment-id=0000000100000001,timestamp=2018-04-18T18:22:38.915+0000)
You're misled. The Katarina update was not a success. There's too many new problems brought up by the delays. Even if she isn't considered an Assassin anymore, and that she should not be treated the same way because of her AOE Damage, she's still played like an Assassin in regards to picking off single targets.
I disagree with this. The Katarina rework was a success. It did a lot of things for Katarina that old Kat struggled with. Old Kat was a noobstomper and that was about it. The rework namely gave her outplay potential with her multiple shunpos, despite losing the ability to ward hop. I think the price she paid for it was worth it. The only problem is they made her delays TOO long imo. She was still an assassin, a lot more of an assassin than Leblanc was in her rework, but she can struggle when an ADC is as fed as she is and has an even somewhat competent support.
a little difference tho, katarinas delay gives her a bigger amount of aoe damage, and also gives her a cd reset on mobility, and also on cast gives movespeed, i think her delay doesnt need a revert
Never said it needed a revert. Losing a half a second wouldn't be terrible though. Also that delay doesn't determine her damage, it just determines how long it takes for her to do that damage. Her W only gives her move speed, and that's the ability itself. It's basically old Sinister Steel, except with a delay on the damage and it gives you the move speed whether you hit an enemy or not with the dagger drop.
Poske1 votesLulu isn't the only support that can be impossible to deal with as Katarina when facing an ADC on equal or even slightly less footing.
You should avoid picking her when you see fiddlestick, lulu, kassadin. you cant expect katarina to be good pick into everything.
0.5 or 0.75 seconds would be plenty of time for Katarina to react to it, which would not cause a problem with smoothness. I never said at higher levels btw, but if they DID make it at specific level thresholds, they wouldn't have to make it lose part of the delay every level. It could easily be like lose 0.25 seconds at level 9, and another 0.25 seconds at level 13, like most other passives that have level thresholds, and it wouldn't make it feel inconsistent either way because you're usually gonna be waiting for that dagger to drop normally anyways. All lowering the delay would do is make your combo faster. You're right about Katarina not being a single target assassin, and she pays for that in other ways than the delay on her dagger drop. If she didn't, she wouldn't have went so long without delays in her old kit. it doesn't make sense for an assassin to be forced to stand in a tiny area for longer than they need to, and 0.75 seconds would be perfectly acceptable imo, especially considering every other assassin that had delays are getting theirs completely removed. To be honest, if Katarina could land her daggers on an enemy with 0.75 seconds, she could with 1.25 seconds as well. Why? Because the only way someone's going to avoid getting hit by one of her daggers is if they walk into her when she Qs, or walks away from her as she shunpos to them. Think about it this way, you know how long a Irelia's stun feels like? That's how long Katarina's dagger drop would take if it were at 0.75 seconds. That's plenty of time. Not too long, not too short. You know how long a Heimerdinger stun lasts? That's how long it takes now.
You cannot just remove counterplay from a champion. I Dont know how fast resseter you are but take it from a katarina main since season 1 who is consistently top 10 kata world. SHE IS ALREADY FAST, I can give you tips on how to improve your resset speed.
0.5 second drop is a big drop. You cant just ignore it. Curently Katarina is rated quite high as a midlaner and is often banned. Asking for this would result in her becoming a stat check champion with less damage which IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT
You do not want less damage for the sake of speed. This used to be a katarina issue. Fast AOE oneshoter cannot exist in league and when I say fast I mean ultra fast. Old katarina could never get ahead in high elo yet she was snowball reliant, current katarina has higher damage and the offset is that you need more skill
I used to play Leblanc quite a bit(before she lost her silence), I thought she was fun, but I always played other champions more. However I did play Leblanc enough to know what she was like before the rework and after the rework. You can't say someone has no right to talk about her simply because you dunno if they've ever played her, can play her, or can't. New Leblanc is not an assassin. That's why she's getting her revert. Another reason could also be because of the weird nature of her new R. While it is handy to have a mirror image scout for you, or use it to distract enemies, it was made awkwardly. If you haven't used your mirror image yet, then you have to use that before using your normal ulti. It's just strange and not right having to press a button twice, possibly wasting part of an ability just to use what you really want. Also, considering a majority of the world seems to agree with me(that's gotta be why they're reverting her rework, obviously, as that's why they did it to Rengar), I think I have a right to say old Leblanc was more fun.
It doesnt matter what you think about Le blanc. Your le blanc opinion is irelevant compard to mine. Calling the reworked le blanc not an assassin while I COULD LEGITIMETLY MAKE YOU FKING RAGE QUIT BY ASSASSINATING YOU From 1400 range is extremly iritating.
Le blanc got reverted due to UNSKILLED gunblade crybabys who cant press 2 buttoms. I was not opposed to a partial revert because I THOUGH IT WOULD BE FKING PARTIAL NOT A FULL REVERT WITH GUTTING WHICH STRIPPED AWAY A GOOD PARTS which was her deception for example.
Never said it needed a revert. Losing a half a second wouldn't be terrible though. Also that delay doesn't determine her damage, it just determines how long it takes for her to do that damage. Her W only gives her move speed, and that's the ability itself. It's basically old Sinister Steel, except with a delay on the damage and it gives you the move speed whether you hit an enemy or not with the dagger drop.
I would probably laught at your katarina gameplay. If You are asking for speed on katarina you must be extremly delayed resseter. I bet you think Katlife/katevolved/flyerbeck are good katarinas no they are quite slow I CAN DO what they do just more correctly and 20-30% faster without stops
Till you can do that dont talk about her assassination speed. Try normal cast for speed it ll stop you from ever losing 1 reflex speed compared to quick cast due to how surprises work)
Current katarina has issues
This are here only issues
Azadethe1 votesNo kidding. Totally agree. There are at least 30 champs who literally can't even exist on the same map as a good NEW Leblanc.
Her W is insanely OP coupled with her passive. The 2 second delay doesn't even seem like 2 seconds. Feels like 1.25 seconds, because the timer seems to begin when she first casts it, not when it hits the target. If you don't have a dash or Zhonya's, you're dead.
(when ult is down) 
VoraciousX1 votesYou should avoid picking her when you see fiddlestick, lulu, kassadin. you cant expect katarina to be good pick into everything.
You cannot just remove counterplay from a champion. I Dont know how fast resseter you are but take it from a katarina main since season 1 who is consistently top 10 kata world. SHE IS ALREADY FAST, I can give you tips on how to improve your resset speed.
0.5 second drop is a big drop. You cant just ignore it. Curently Katarina is rated quite high as a midlaner and is often banned. Asking for this would result in her becoming a stat check champion with less damage which IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT
You do not want less damage for the sake of speed. This used to be a katarina issue. Fast AOE oneshoter cannot exist in league and when I say fast I mean ultra fast. Old katarina could never get ahead in high elo yet she was snowball reliant, current katarina has higher damage and the offset is that you need more skill
A 0.75 second dagger drop would NOT make her insanely fast. It'd make her slightly faster by a little bit. You're over exaggerating. Also Katarina did get more damage(about 100 base and 175% AP scaling, if you count her landing on both daggers) , but her cooldowns were raised significantly, and she lost damage reduction. I highly doubt it was the delay they put in that allowed them to increase her damage, and again. I'm not saying to remove the delay, just shorten it. As for "resetting faster" You can't reset any faster than it takes for the dagger to drop. You can do other things while WAITING for the dagger to drop, but you're still WAITING for the dagger to drop, as it's most of your damage, unless you can manage to get a full ult off, which doesn't happen very often, and normally you'd be better off not trying to get a full ult off. You can Q a minion, E to someone and pick up the dagger on the way, it seems fast, but you're still waiting 1.25 seconds. There's no way to "speed up" your reset. There are ways to make it SEEM like it's faster, for sure, but there is no way to magically make a dagger drop any faster. Kat's also still pretty snowball reliant.
It doesnt matter what you think about Le blanc. Your le blanc opinion is irelevant compard to mine. Calling the reworked le blanc not an assassin while I COULD LEGITIMETLY MAKE YOU FKING RAGE QUIT BY ASSASSINATING YOU From 1400 range is extremly iritating.
You wouldn't assassinate me, you'd hit me with delayed burst which could kill me. There's a difference, assassins are fast. New Leblanc was a burst mage, not an assassin.
Le blanc got reverted due to UNSKILLED gunblade crybabys who cant press 2 buttoms. I was not opposed to a partial revert because I THOUGH IT WOULD BE FKING PARTIAL NOT A FULL REVERT WITH GUTTING WHICH STRIPPED AWAY A GOOD PARTS which was her deception for example.
I would probably laught at your katarina gameplay. If You are asking for speed on katarina you must be extremly delayed resseter. I bet you think Katlife/katevolved/flyerbeck are good katarinas no they are quite slow I CAN DO what they do just more correctly and 20-30% faster without stops
Till you can do that dont talk about her assassination speed. Try normal cast for speed it ll stop you from ever losing 1 reflex speed compared to quick cast due to how surprises work)
Current katarina has issues
Issue EW (W sometimes doesnt work after jumping)
Input commands old E flash is the best examples this doesnt work since rework, but this was relvant for memory mouscle buttom mash resseting something you probably dont have given that you fking wrote this thread
This are here only issues
I know about these problems, and I'm expecting those to be fixed with the work they're doing on the PBE. It's very annoying to E>W and realize your W decided to act first despite you hitting it second when 90% of the time it waits until you actually land on the enemy with your E, and then you just E'd into an enemy without a reset. I also didn't write this thread, but I do feel like if other assassins are getting their instaburst returned, Kat should get a reduction on her delays as well(she doesn't need NO delays, that would feel bad with her new W, but 0.5 seconds or even 0.25 seconds less wouldn't hurt, and it definitely would not do anything that she couldn't ALREADY do. Even 1.25 seconds isn't enough time to get away without flash, this would just give her more time to get her damage off before she possibly gets polymorphed, or stunned, or what have you, which is exactly what LB and Rengar got).
Also I didn't insult you, so I see no reason for you to turn to insulting me. Try to be a decent human being. It adds nothing to the discussion.
Azadethe1 votesPfft the only thing about old Katarina: Old Katarina was REALLY easy to self cancel and waste her Ult. At least we knew where she'd land. Daggers on new Kat are hard to react to in time if it's a good Katarina.
Azadethe1 votesIt's called a need for counters. Lulu is a counter check.... No champ is designed to have no way to shut down, and even in Lulu games, good Katarinas can go 19/1 in masters.
Infinite Saught1 votesYou're misled. The Katarina update was not a success. There's too many new problems brought up by the delays. Even if she isn't considered an Assassin anymore, and that she should not be treated the same way because of her AOE Damage, she's still played like an Assassin in regards to picking off single targets.
FatedSaviour1 votesa little difference tho, katarinas delay gives her a bigger amount of aoe damage, and also gives her a cd reset on mobility, and also on cast gives movespeed, i think her delay doesnt need a revert
FatedSaviour1 voteswhat do you mean by kill times, how long it takes to kill, i like kat how she is at the moment, i prefer this kat over the old kat easily, old kat felt like kat was doing all the work, new kat feels like the player is doing the work
Azadethe1 votesNew Kat is still broken beyond compare. The top champs in all regions are Kat players because when played near perfectly there isn't a champ composition which regularly shuts her down, even if they are CC teams. In High Elo, she just waits for opponents to lock on to a teammate and blow their cc, and then Kat just goes in and shreds.
She technically has counters, but that's just not how it works with players who have .5 second reaction times and know how to lay their daggers faster than opponents can react to them.