Garen wins Shen top lane?

SuperCosmicHobo·Dec 9, 2016·1 votes·11,775 views

Been playing Shen a lot and haven't won a game with him against Garen... You can bait his q with your w but suddenly just spins and chunks a bunch of health for no reason with his e... Then after a short while of chasing you while spinning, he just smacks q again. Doesn't matter if you q,w,e... Nothing works. I kinda wish Shen could ult him self or something for a shield. Cause after dueling Garen just for a tad bit, he can just tower dive lvl 6 with your health at 3/4 full and kill you while being able to just run away. Taunting did nothing much. And eventually he ends up fed. At least the old Shen you had something to poke Garen with, now you don't and it kinda makes you feel like the lane is lost... Lately, riot wants to buff Garen's e to give 25% armor reduction or so... It sounds frustrating. Dueling Garen with a ratio of 3/4 your ability is not fun. Any advice?

26 Comments

Pavello2Dec 9, 20163 votes

shen is garbage right now.

BeatzBoyFTWDec 9, 20161 votes

Still a high competitive & All-Star pick. Shen just requires precise timing in terms of dueling while utilizing the position of his blades & so on.

OglafDec 9, 20162 votes

Shen's rework totally destroyed him.

Keep visual upgrade, revert the ability changes.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

In a Riot post a while back says that Shen's Rework didn't fit him, but since other champs needed to be reworked, they decided to leave it like that.

OglafDec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

In a Riot post a while back says that Shen's Rework didn't fit him, but since other champs needed to be reworked, they decided to leave it like that.

Brilliant. There's nothing rewarding enough in his kit to make up for having to lug his blade around like he does. It is a handicap, lol.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

Lol yeah it's the spirit blade they said that didn't fit the concept too well...

OglafDec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lol yeah it's the spirit blade they said that didn't fit the concept too well...

I don't necessarily agree with that it doesn't fit him.

They just implemented the spirit blade concept in a really, really shitty way. Mechanically speaking it is just terrible. Plus, I really think they messed by removing his poke - that leaves him open to being sooo bullied in lane.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

Shen kinda needs that poke I believe. I think Twilight's assault heals minorly, but it's not significant to him as his old Q. I kinda want his old q.

And A Real HieroDec 9, 20161 votes

Dude not to be a asshole, but do you even read your champ's abilities? Twilight assault deals damage pure and simple, if you pull the sword through a enemy = more damage more quickly plus a minor slow if they run from you. It will also activate his passive.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

Uhhhhh read my comments first before say that. I already know his abilities.

And A Real HieroDec 9, 20161 votes

You think Twilight Assault heals him, it doesn't. So yes I read your comment, hence I commented on it.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 10, 20161 votes

Nah I thought it did minor healing since some times out of nowhere there's like little +20 coming out of nowhere.

And A Real HieroDec 9, 20161 votes

Rush a Zzrot vs opponents that completely wreck you in lane.

Have your jungler gank the Garen (who should be autopushing you).

If he spins walk through your minions, it will slow him down and push the wave.

After ZZrot, be on the lookout for good ults, you can compensate you losing lane by helping others win theirs and ZZrot will keep Garen busy long enough for you to tp back top.

There will be a point where Garen's passive becomes more reliable for him and he can decide when fights happen, at that point you can't beat him in a straight up 1v1.

Also what items did you build?

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

Tank items, usually a sunfire cape first.

StephenizgodDec 9, 20161 votes

Shen actually beats Garen pre-6 if you know how to time your abilities. Once Garen hits 6 though he has power advantage over Shen because Shen's ult doesn't offer him power in a 1v1. Until level 6 they can't really kill each other, Garen can't 1v1 the Shen because he will lose and Shen can't kill a smart Garen because he won't get into extended trades with Shen.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

That was pre-season 6 though... His q got nerf quite a few times.

StephenizgodDec 9, 20161 votes

His Q got nerfed this patch? I didn't see that

Also remember that Garen and Shen are both pretty trash, but at least Shen has his ultimate which can turn the tides of the game. If you are losing to Garen, don't fight him. Don't let him hit you, just back off and let him push. Wait for moments to use your ultimate Bot lane, thats where you will make your plays. Getting fed off killing Garen won't really help you anyways, you want to be going Bot lane and helping your ADC get a double double.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

No it got nerf 2-3 patches ago. Shen wasn't too trash since dueling top lane was still something with Shen that you could do. I like how twilight assault scales with health percentage... But does it have to be a ap scaling? Shen's E was nerf far back when it was said to be 'too strong' and now it hardly does any damage in early laning phase.

StephenizgodDec 9, 20161 votes

Shen's strength has always been his ability to go bot lane and give his ADC an incredible advantage. That is what they are pushing him towards i believe, they don't really want him destroying his lane then going bot lane and destroying them. That would make him busted as hell.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

Lol what I am trying to say is that, he should be able to duel other bruisers fairly. Garen isn't fair.

StephenizgodDec 9, 20161 votes

Im sorry to burst your bubble, but Garen is really trash right now and fairly weak compared to other juggernauts. He is super weak to kiting and is only a threat if you let him attack you for free. He doesn't have great sustain if you know how to stop his passive and his damage is sub-par unless you are the villain. Dodge his Q with your W, kite away from his E, then go back in once its done. Shen does %HP damage which is great against juggernauts and tanks, it also means Shen scales into late game better than Garen who will fall off around mid game.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

Well there is no kiting for Shen, he's got no range attack. Twilight assault only gives 50+ range and that's still in range of getting hit. Garen's q refreshes fast as well, 8 seconds compared to Shen's long cds (minus q). Shen does a big ton of health scaling damage only if he goes partially ap... I kinda wish it was hp scale, but Garen's moves are super spamable. The only thing that irritates me the most is not Garen's qwe moves, but it's his dumb ult. Instant execution practically, no bruiser dueling... Just instant. I kinda wish Garen's ult is more counter playable like hard cc... Or how it showed in the cinematic. Taking Garen's ult a while to strike Katarina (Not that long though). I can understand, if people are saying that Garen is under power,if he's falling off mid scaling. I guess buffing his e with 25% armor shredding is alright.

StephenizgodDec 9, 20161 votes

Im not trying to offend you but you just need to learn how to play Shen against him. Its actually in Shen's favor until Garen hits 6, because Shen can dodge Garen's Q then run away from his E, and go back in with Shen taunt. Besides your goal is not to fight Garen, it is to out roam him. You apply pressure around the map and put his teammates behind. Without teammates Garen will seriously struggle to do anything mid game, so you basically just want to farm it out and wait for opportunities to Ult.

Garen's goal is to bully you out of lane or kill you if possible. He will then use that lead to run over your teammates if allowed. Don't give him the chance to fight you if you can't beat him, stay back and freeze the wave around your turret so that he has to over-extend then call for Jungler gank. Garen is fairly easy to gank if you bait our his Q beforehand and Shen is really good at keeping an enemy in place.

Garen needs a lot more than Armor Shred, he needs a full rework, his kit is old. He is probably the worst and weakest of the Juggernauts (Mordekaiser is probably a contender for worst Juggernaut).

SuperCosmicHoboDec 10, 20161 votes

I just find Garen frustrating... xP Didn't he get a rework in 2014? o.O Or so? Yeah still need to learn Shen tactics...

Social Justice 1Dec 9, 20161 votes

Shen isn't an aggressive laner, and Garen is. You just need to keep up in farm and wait for teamfights.

SuperCosmicHoboDec 9, 20161 votes

Considering that he had 3 moves that are made to be quite aggressive, Q adds more damage for pulling spirit sword through enemies (aka slow procs almost like a weaker trynda like 'W'). W, insta aa damage null and E a instant taunt if hit. It's a pretty aggressive kit though even if he isn't a aggressive laner since wave clear is a bit weak. Where you spam q at almost all times... At least one good thing you get off of new Shen. You can actually duel a Yi 1v1 and actually win, I tried it and it was possible late game.