Tank update wasn't a tank update?

SuperCosmicHobo·Sep 23, 2017·51 votes·1,968 views

Nope, it was nerfing tanks and making 3 tanks far too reliable+ Rammus. Tank update really was just an adc update, let's not lie about that. It actually was a damn adc update again. Nerfing every tank item to the floor and making all adc buys worth everything. and "Supposedly" equivalent isn't even fair no more. That's like saying, turn into a 80 ap + ability+ spellvamp+ CDR so that it is the equivalent of bloodthirster for ap champs. It's just that ridiculous how it changed. It was a post adc update.

98 Comments

MordepoolSep 23, 201728 votes

Marksmen on demand steroids have no counterplay
Being stat checked from range isn't fun.
Just had a game without marksmen. That was fun as hell

RainfallSep 23, 20178 votes

Riot guts all tank items. Riot updates a couple of tanks. some of the updated tanks are broken Riot looks at sejuani and rammus Another succesfull class update //poppy with the other champions that build defensive items making dying noises in the background

SuperCosmicHoboSep 23, 20173 votes

You know, wannabe tank-ish champs like Bard does not work well as a tank anymore. Too little buffs to be a gain on building armor/mr. So &%@$ it, build damage and minor tanking and you can &%@$ carry if you are good with Bard.

My Waifu VanillaSep 24, 20171 votes

Bard is on the loer end of base statlines in the game that he couldn't function as an actual tank if he wanted to. Bard is squishier than his carry through base stats alone for most of the game and only gets mildly bulky from his Sightstone and Redemption.

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20171 votes

most tanks are like that they just build armor and magic resist.

PopcornBunniSep 23, 20176 votes

The funniest thing is that item 3071 item 3035 are stronger now than they were before the """tank""" update, even with weaker penetration, since tank itemization is in the shitter now.

But hey, at least tanks """don't""" have to buy the same items every game now

item 3193

SuperCosmicHoboSep 23, 201711 votes

I hardly ever see that on anyone other than chogath, tamh kench and galio

ThefrostyvikingSep 23, 20172 votes

Seju, j4, shyvana,malphite, maokai, rammus and some others also commonly use stoneplate.

It's a very strong item.

And how were tank items nerfed to the ground? There are a number of tanks around the top of the winrates in jungle and toplane.................

They could not possibly be there if their items were so bad.

Champion SkinSep 23, 20175 votes

And how were tank items nerfed to the ground? There are a number of tanks around the top of the winrates in jungle and toplane.................

Jungle tanks weren't hit very hard by the tank update Some top lane tanks were hit quite hard by the item 3068 nerfs as it was an actually good item for them to rush and without any good item to build for laning they obviously were struggling in lane

Though of course some tanks could build stuff like item 3077 or other fighter items instead and some tanks weren't as reliant on Sunfire so they didn't really get hurt as much

And now tanks have item 3076 as a laning item to go for against AD champions

ThefrostyvikingSep 23, 20172 votes

.....You really don't know why sunfire was an issue? It was clearly explained back in the patch when it was nerfed........

And what's wrong with Bramble vest? It works absolutely great against nearly any aggressive AD toplaners except maybe gnar and darius? It's especially good against those that like to heal like Fiora, Tryndamere, Irelia and Aatrox.

Fiora even had her nerfs reverted because bramle vest was added.

The issue with old toplane tanks is that they just sat on the backline of their minions and only walked forward to when a minion was about to die, and if anyone tried to do a meaningful trade against them they would just back up 2 steps and use their abilties and the aggressor would end up taking more damage than they inflicted.

Or if they tried for harasssing as melee the tanks regen would just negate it, or they would win becase tanks often pack more power into their abilites while aggression champs often need a few seconds or auto attack resets and such.

And a reason newly reworked Fiora was so hated early on is because her 2 hit harassment actually did a lot of damage when repeated, and if you tried to follow she would also just back of into her minions and win the trade like that.

Then when the tanks got sunfire they would just sit in the middle of minion waves and you´d lose trades simply because you couldn't break their defense and deal enough damage before you as a squishy carry took too much from the tanks minions and his sunfire.

Oh and sunfire was so cheap that they would always get it before enemy could stack damage, thus you´d easily invalidate aggro AD champs even more.'

No one wants to sit and watch to walking walls try and bash eachother with auto attacks that deals like 60 damage. and very few wants to play like that as well. The tank meta is one of the most despised for that reason alone.

But that does not mean that all tanks are bad for toplane currently either, Maokai, Cho gath, singed and Ornn have all been doing well there as far as i know.

SuperCosmicHoboSep 23, 20173 votes

The main reason why tanks are a pick or ban is usually for the amount of cc. You don't even really build damage just because their kit is good. Like the time when Zac was a really pick-or-ban champ (Still kinda but not as much).

ThefrostyvikingSep 23, 20171 votes

Because tanks have been limited to CC and tankiness x)

Zac dropped out after his durability received nerfs and cho&seju stepped up to take over that.

If it were only CC then Zac wouldn't have fallen down like he did.

SuperCosmicHoboSep 23, 20173 votes

Of course, but look at zac's ult, it does far less damage for high cc. Still a pick or ban in plat+. It is true on zac's tankiness nerfs though

ThefrostyvikingSep 23, 20171 votes

Possessing great utility and durability are the tanks trademark identities nowadays, but it's true that they tend to lean in either direction and Zac goes more towards utility. But i would never actually call him bad or weak for this, nor would i call him squishy.

And yet people still claim that "tanks are weak and unable to do anything" and that they die too fast.

As if their win and playrates weren't proof enough that they are doing well x)

SuperCosmicHoboSep 23, 20172 votes

They kinda die too fast for tanks now lol

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20171 votes

They explained why sunfire was an issue but the community who buy the item dont agree sunfire was already stats nerfed so fighters stopped buying the item now they buffed the stats slightly and greatly nerfed the passsive which was already nerfed when cinderhulk and bambi's cinder came out.

ThefrostyvikingSep 25, 20171 votes

I don't actually feel so bad about it tho.....sunfire is pretty much a no- interaction-win-anyway item.

It feels real bad to play against x)

LordGeovanniSep 26, 20171 votes

sunfire was never really strong just that the defenses of melee champions kept getting worse and worse including the sunfire item itself

ThefrostyvikingSep 26, 20171 votes

It was actually really strong for a long time, just not appreciated properly.

LordGeovanniSep 27, 20171 votes

the passive was stronger but the stats were super weak and hardly worth the item slot even then the passive was not crazy.

ThefrostyvikingSep 27, 20171 votes

It was good enough for some like Shyvana to rush it up in the toplane and beat Darius and Riven it for a time.

This was long ago though.

Thus because of that and other things it was slowly nerfed so that only tanks would use it.

But then it was realized that it was near impossible to actually kill a tank in lane rushing it as a diver or skirmisher, they were just too durable to actually kill or even drive out of lane.

And so those tanks were quite dominant for some time up there.

So Riot once again started nerfing it, and eventually tanks all around got nerfs and i stopped paying attention to them so i can't exactly recall much more than that.

But i am absolutely certain that on some it was about as close as a "free win" item as a tank could get, and that's why riot choose to kick it down.

Just as they recently did cinderhulk, altho not as much-

LordGeovanniSep 30, 20171 votes

when sunfire was good everyone rushed it first item tanks or fighter maybe not riven. but You dont even see Shyvanna top none the less versus Darius and riven. that would have been before darius rework and rivens numerious numerious buffs

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20171 votes

Yeah, it was a long time ago as mentioned.

And yep, nearly everyone except a few like Riven and Fiora could rush it and it worked.

LordGeovanniSep 30, 20171 votes

Now they do the same thing with Black cleaver but that one is supposedly Balanced.

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20171 votes

Haven't they finished messing around with clever since a while ago? Didn't it end after the build path was changed and % lowered?

PoskeSep 25, 20171 votes

J4 yes, Maoka I guess he can rest dont

Gargoyle is sadly the only item which can make you tanky

Heck I STARTED to build it at yasuo because he draws so fking much attention.. that its funny to use it XD

ThefrostyvikingSep 25, 20171 votes

Depends on what you want to be tanky against though, if dealing with AP then item 3194 is really strong too.

But since the marksmen are so happy building crit tanks can just stack item 3047 item 3143 and item 3193 to good effect. Doesnt work too great against the ones who build item 3153 and posses a powerful ATS steroids but it works very well against anything else.

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20171 votes

while true its not because the item is bad even though the stats are its because no one wants to play a no damage self gimping tank in solo que.

SuperCosmicHoboSep 25, 20171 votes

Try Tahm Kench with item 3193 and you will know why. Your devour will last longer than your stone plate.

LordGeovanniSep 26, 20171 votes

Tahm already feels bad when they moved his ult passive to his passive passive but weaker

kasfasSep 23, 20175 votes

Tank update was a tank gutting, Plain and simple. Every tank that wasn't updated got put in the shitter for quite a few patches, and many still need buffs. I'm actually really glad that sion got the buffs that he did because it should be an example to riot about how backwards the update really was.

Champion SkinSep 23, 201715 votes

item 3068 getting hit by the nerf hammer hit the laning of so many tank champions since it was you know an actually good item to rush on tanks

Somebody Love MeSep 23, 20172 votes

The assassin update was the same thing

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20171 votes

item 3147 twice now.

Somebody Love MeSep 25, 20171 votes

The assassin rework left assaassins in a shit state. If I remember correctly, it was one of the follow up patches, after they realized they fucked up, that they buffed lethality to a stupid state.

Then again after the "tank update"

LordGeovanniSep 26, 20171 votes

assassins were super strong with the assassin rework and so were adcs abusing the assassin item and as such the items were nerfed 3 months later. The assassin rework was not initally bad for assassins only after the items were nerfed months later because adcs were using them better than the guys they were intended for much like the fighter items overhaul.

Somebody Love MeSep 26, 20171 votes

The only assassins that were strong were Khazix and Shaco because of uncounterable stealth and stupid kit damage, and Rengar because of an overloaded kit. I specifically remember Vayne and Twitch being NUTS.

They ended up tuning them in follow up patches, and once all tuning was done, assassins were okay because lethality was overtuned. Then they gutted Shaco, nerfed Kat, and did some other stuff that made assassins jokes. Hell, most of the assassins got shafted with delays that ADCs were laughing at how they could misposition and still shit on assassins.

LordGeovanniSep 27, 20171 votes

Caitlyn MissFortune Draven Graves Jhin Vayne Twitch Sivir Quinn were all oppressive during the duskblade lethality meta using duskblade Zed Khazix Rengar and Talon were all super strong too and a bitch to deal with wether you were supposedly squishy or supposedly tanky. Shaco was hardly used and had a worse meme that the super wrong adc 2k17 because people didnt want to adjust to his back stab being on a cooldown. they played ap shaco.

Somebody Love MeSep 27, 20171 votes

I think we're getting the assassin rework confused with the patches that followed, because duskblade wasnt busted till a few patches later.

If we use that logic, then the tank rework was the same thing, since tanks became pretty busted in the patches that followed the shitty update patch.

LordGeovanniSep 27, 20171 votes

I believe that duskblade was strong on its release and it did get stronger but adcs were far stronger with the item than assassins and the penetration was so high they didnt have problems with tanks like people claim. even worse because black cleavers passive has been overloaded for some time now. Also the tank rework didnt make any tanks busted they best tanks ad supporting adcs and mages for the now squishier cast of tanks and fighters took over is all.

Somebody Love MeSep 27, 20171 votes

I think duskblade was fine on release. It was when they reworked lethalaity values that LETHALITY AS A WHOLE was broken. I remember Edge of Night making me want to uninstall.

LordGeovanniSep 30, 20171 votes

I didnt care for edge of night at all i never seen it used well. its just that it could be used far more than item 3102 as an offensive item they should have just taken the stupid banshes veil resets if you take any damage that was a stupid thing to put on in the first place. So what if it felt bad for people who didnt take into account it was comming up in the next 10 seconds in a fight maybe they should have just taken that into account.

Somebody Love MeSep 30, 20171 votes

In it's prime it was like a 30 second cd for a 10 second shield. It was being built on ADCs with channels and stuff, so that was basically 20 sec of vulnerability. People were spamming that shit off cooldown just because they could

LordGeovanniSep 30, 20171 votes

that was the lethality metas problem adcs using the items. duskblade had several busted iterations too current one included

Craft ZeppelinSep 23, 20171 votes

Make adcs reliable so that they are worth protecting with tanks update

SuperCosmicHoboSep 23, 20178 votes

Uhuh, item 3504 that's what you mean? But seriously no that's not it. It actually made adcs like twitch too op

ThefrostyvikingSep 23, 20176 votes

Please, Twitch was already OP ever since the lethality meta ended.

He was just flying under the radar for a longer while......not to mention but what use is ardent censer to a Twitch when he and his support are on opposite sides of the enemy team? x)

Somebody Love MeSep 24, 20173 votes

Twitch has been OP ever since his changes in preseason, since they treated him as an assassin in the assassin rework.

Funny thing is that they treated him better than most assassins.

ThefrostyvikingSep 24, 20171 votes

He wasnt touched in the actual update though?Not stats wise at least.

However they did remove the perfect invisibility mechanic from his Q and gave him a longer camouflage instead... This is situational but generally a buff.

And that was it, nothing more than that.

Somebody Love MeSep 24, 20173 votes

They greatly extended his stealth, made it so he moves faster toward enemy, bringing about the first back cheese.

They gave him waveclear with the cask by having it linger, instead of providing a flat amount of stacks for his passive, allowing him to have a decent lane phase, while still maintaining his late game power. Sure it doesn't seem like much, but considering he's supposed to generally be super weak early to justify his late, it kinda did bring about the monster Twitch is now.