@Riot Will there be any changes to the jungle in the preseason?

Shystoria·Sep 21, 2016·6 votes·13,953 views

IMO the jungle feels really stale this season. It was/is basically Junglers or / with a tiny splash of ap junglers like . Will it be different next season or the same as this season?

29 Comments

RiotMeddlerSep 21, 20168 votes

There'll be some changes yes. Tweaks to jungle items (balancing more than reinvention), adjustments to jungle camps (creating stronger contrasts between single target and multi target junglers to enable different strength profiles) and some other stuff that's not yet ready to be talked about.

Gamer Girl PaigeSep 21, 20163 votes

bring back devourer. blood razor is useless compared to it...........

137434Sep 21, 201615 votes

No.

I don't think there has ever been a time where a stacking jungle item has been perfectly balanced. They are either OP or completely gutted to prevent them from being OP.

RottedApplesSep 22, 20165 votes

ludens has stacks, it seems fairly balanced.

Kappa

SukishooSep 22, 20164 votes

Totally different stacking concepts.

Devourer / Flare Flare type items had mostly infinite stacks (till they capped Devourer) that had to be built up by killing camps or enemies.

Ludens / Runic Echos stacks are cause by moving and casting spells which is the same way Static Shiv stacks as well.

toxıc sIutSep 22, 20164 votes

dude.

WarlockLawSep 22, 20162 votes

I think they should bring it back, but take a page from Kindred's book. Make it so that after so many stacks you no longer gain stacks from different camps. First you lose regular camps, stuff like scuttle, chickens and wolves. Then you lose buff camps, followed later by the elemental drakes and rift herald, assuming its still alive at this point. Finally you only gain stacks from baron, elder dragon and kills and maybe assists, though you could make it lose stacking off of assists as well. This prevents the perma farming aspect of Wriggles/original devourer, and pushes it further into the healthy design that sated devour had going.

That said I'm biased in favor of the item, because I enjoyed it and its playstyle. I've never been able to figure out how to play early game junglers, so junglers that scale up and/or don't matter until 6 have always been my preferred champions. Stacking jungle items helped me actually be relevant when I didn't gank until my first item.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 22, 20162 votes

I'm sorry that you don't get to AFK farm anymore for the whole game like a jerk.

Malicious MetalSep 21, 20164 votes

And of course the rebalancing of a ton of champions once you change Rylais and other items. Oh boy, this preseason is going to be interesting.

SukishooSep 22, 20163 votes

Nah... they'll just screw with all of us and remove every item from the game and release a brand new set up of things we've never seen before. Now THAT would be an interesting per-season... I could see all the complaints.

YumaS2AstralSep 22, 20161 votes

The only thing I don't want for this pre-season is to be like the last, when everyone was using Thunderlord's Decree on every champion, every game.

137434Sep 22, 20161 votes

That almost always happens in preseason. Something new gets added that is just a touch too powerful and everyone and their mother abuses it until the item/mastery/whatever gets nerfed into a more balanced state. (remember before Thunderlord's Decree it was actually Death Fire Touch that was too strong).

YumaS2AstralSep 22, 20161 votes

Yes, but unlike TLD, DFT is not usable by every champion. There are few champions who can take full advantage of this mastery; namely ones with DPS and/or single-target spells. Also, they must be able to build full damage because DFT had, and still has, mediocre base damage but amazing scaling.

TLD however, is usable by every champion, even though it is not the most optimal keystone for all of them. It is incredibly easy to proc (you just have to auto or hit spells until the enemy has 3 stacks, and unlike DFT it has no penalty for AoE/DoT spells), has a good base damage (you don't actually need to go full offense to make good use of it, but it is still better to go full offense to make its damage scale), and is placed on the Cunning tree which has a lot of generic masteries which are useful for every champion, unlike the Ferocity and Resolve trees which require more specific synergy with certain champion's kits.

I remember back then, even when Deathfire Touch was too strong, it was still not used by every champion on every game. Other keystones were being used too, most notably Warlord's Bloodlust and Fervor of Battle, and when they fixed the weird bug, Thunderlord's Decree.

This latter was being used everygame due to the combination of being the most generic keystone (as explained above) combined with the fact that other keystones were gutted.

Meep ManSep 22, 20161 votes

Well, let's see here now...

Assassin Update (rumors of Assassin oriented objective)
Rylai's Rework
Locket Rework
Jungle Changes
Warwick Update (I presume it will be released around then)

ShystoriaSep 21, 20162 votes

Thanks for replying! Looking forward to it.[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

PhlorgeSep 21, 20165 votes

are you going to make it so junglers dont need a leash??

LankPantsSep 22, 20164 votes

Junglers don't need a leash currently. Almost any jungler can clear without one. It's just a really, really bad idea not to give one since the opportunity cost of a leash is extremely low.

All Day Tay TaySep 22, 20161 votes

for people downvoting this, watch any stonewall008 video for jungle clears. he never has a leash

Duke AnaxSep 22, 20162 votes

Yeah I don't even need a leash on Soraka but it certainly makes things much easier.

Onyx 7Sep 22, 20162 votes

Do you not think that there is an issue with balancing junglers themselves since there is multiple jungle item and jungle changes every season? It seems as though Riot focuses on nerfing the top two junglers and then the next top two and then the next top two, without many buffs to other junglers and it just cycles until there's an item or jungle change.

The items currently feel really good, people always go different smites for different situations, they use all the enchants for different junglers, people don't always have to rush the jungle item, there is choice in whether you complete your jungle item early or not. Yet the top two junglers will just continue to get big nerfs and other junglers get small buffs and it just ends up with jungle in this weird supportive low-income role and then there's jungle changes or item changes.

I'd really like your opinion on these points specifically because it seems like this has been a reoccurring pattern over the last 3 years especially.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 22, 20161 votes

Is Ohmwrecker in the list of "not ready to be talked about"?

Meep ManSep 22, 20161 votes

It has been for five thousand years

ReZisT LustSep 22, 20161 votes

Ohmwrecker op buy it on zed trust win pet a cat

Johnny DestroySep 22, 20162 votes

we just don't believe you anymore. your own CEO is an ELO booster. His punishment, buy his way out to a charity while he is on the Board of Directors, sad. Ghostcrawler talked about trust, this company keeps me from trusting it. nothing but lies since season 2. and still no 10 year reward for me. 6500 games, all the champs, 1000$ in skins and i get shafted. thanks

OleandervineSep 22, 20162 votes

You are aware that the 10 Year TY rewards are still being distributed right? They should all be out by the 24th. As of today, there are still 2 more days left.

Wolftastic33Sep 22, 20161 votes

Since Shyvana was nerfed around sated devourer, is there any chance to see her get some kind of buff?

AzrhaelGrSep 22, 20161 votes

so, no funnier Warrior? :c

Srsly it's the lamest jungle item. I mean, it's not weak, it's just... unfun... I don't usually play champs that mainly use Warrior, but on most of them I find it funnier to go either Bloodrazor (on autoattackers)(love it on Vi tho, does scale well with her W mainly) or Cinderhulk on the tanky ones, like Poppy, Hecarim, etc.

Thinking about it, every other enchantment gets something like 1 passive that's already present in another item and 1 unique passive:

item 1402 : Passive from Luden's, + mana restauration (kinda unique, and well gated) item 1401 : Passive from Cinder + extra 15% bonus hp (unique) item 1416 : mathematically, Passive from botrk (current hp) + same amount on missing hp = % max hp on hit

and then, item 1400 : Hmm... nothing??? (My idea would be tune it down of course, and them give it like, the bleed passive from item 3812 + killing a larg/epic monster/champion/assisting would stop the bleeding. A way to encourage "I've come to do this and I must finish my job".)

SlashStrikerSep 22, 20161 votes

MasterYi XinZhao Tryndamere Shaco Rengar what about junglers that like to build crits who are focused on 1shot squishies?

NIghtblue3 for instance build crits on pretty much every champion

I ve seen Shaclone also builds crits as well

DehitaySep 21, 20168 votes

For the last 2 seasons they completely changed the jungle each time to make it significantly more difficult on junglers. I can easily see them continuing that tradition and doing something diabolical like making starting jungle items cost 500 gold so we can't even buy health pots next season.