I remember Shyvana being played top all the time, alongside Mundo and Renekton. Now I haven't seen it at all and apparently it is a tier 3 pick, according to Nerfplz patch 5.18 (not that Nerfplz is the final say on anything.) I've done well with Shyvana top, why isn't she seeing more play up there?
magic pole4 votesshe's not the prescribed OP fotm any more
are currently the overpowered freelo champs
Kaelnor2 votesWhy people say is freelo I don't even know.....
magic pole3 votesshe rivals riven in slipperiness given her stupid CD reset on her dash.
can easily negate every ability in the game.. "oh you're going in...? let me just press W to nullify your damage AND leave you as a sitting duck to hit with my 400 true damage passive"
also, best heal in the game, on a duelist/fighter/assassin.
lel
she's absurdly overpowered. anyone with a brain can see that. see how she gets banned in 90% of your games? yeah , it's pretty obvious the consensus is she's terribly unfair and unfun to play against
Godaren3 votes[{quoted}](name=magic pole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm5tAcO3,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-09-21T21:49:16.524+0000)
she rivals riven in slipperiness given her stupid CD reset on her dash.
can easily negate every ability in the game.. "oh you're going in...? let me just press W to nullify your damage AND leave you as a sitting duck to hit with my 400 true damage passive"
also, best heal in the game, on a duelist/fighter/assassin.
lel
she's absurdly overpowered. anyone with a brain can see that. see how she gets banned in 90% of your games? yeah , it's pretty obvious the consensus is she's terribly unfair and unfun to play against
her win rate is like 51% i don't think she is that toxic i've had several on my team fall way behind and never come back in the game.
Kaelnor1 votesEhh you are probably right, but I don't really see it. Maybe I simply just like too much. Though I can name 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, and several others, equally unfun and unfair.
Ralanr1 votesAs a main I must ask what is unfun and unfair about playing against my favorite champion? Not that I will disagree with your points, but I am naturally curious.
SaltyKracka4 votes...Q is Panth's entire lane plan.
Ralanr1 votesAh yes. His Q is indeed powerful as hell, and pretty damn costly. But powerful and unavoidable if he targets you.
I got the impression you hated his W, E, or his E's passive. Quite the surprising killer that passive, makes his Q a nightmare to those with low health.
Kaelnor1 votesLet's not forgot the lock-on gap closing stun which can win him trades with ease.
Kaelnor1 votesThe fact that you get a shield every 4 hits, or after the lock-on gap closing stun, which can block basics, or the fact that you can just W-E-Q and win trades with no actual thought process or legitimate skill involved. Oh and lets not forgot your slowing, and damage dealing teleport. Basically you're a more tanky and mobile , who is equally as cancerous, especially vs ranged tops and non tank-like champs.
Hell even as Garen, going against Panth is challenging.
Ralanr1 votesWow. Ok that's useful to know. To be honest I've had a lot of troubles fighting Garen due to that silence of his, completely shuts Pantheon down for the most part. The shield can block basic attacks, but if you have an empowered AA that gives something other than damage (like say a silence) that goes through. And while he does have a decent stun (compared to others but I'm not a pro) he lacks any means of escape, which has become more and more difficult in this mobility meta. I haven't heard many people complain about getting hit by his ult, I assumed that was because he wasn't picked much (I think he has a 2% pick rating).
Never seen him referred as cancerous though and he's not really all that mobile (at least as how a lot of people describe mobility, which is basically escapes and gap closers. He's got a gap closer, but it's targeted and enemy only, so Jax tends to have more mobility).
I do thank you for your opinion though. I don't see Pantheon talked about much and it's nice to hear some opinions on him.
Edit: Fun fact, he's a great counter to Fiora.
Kaelnor1 votesTrust me his ult is disgusting to get hit by, especially in team fights. I describe mobility on a general standard. Overall movement. Jumping from one part of the map to another is another form of mobility.
may not have an escape, but that doesn't make him any easy to go against. ( 
These guys don't have escapes and yet are still considered champs that are hard to go against.
Ralanr1 votesYeah his ult is painful when I've landed on an unlucky champion. It's also hard to land on people and not recommended for that because of how difficult it is to land it (cause it gives people enough time to walk out of the circle).
isn't her entire ultimate a set of dashes? And to be honest, no champion should be easy to go against.
Kaelnor1 votesNo it's only one dash, but it resets if you use it on someone with her Q's moonlight debuff. Outside though she doesn't get around the map quick which is why JGs always ult when they use Q to farm. At least that's how I do it.
magic pole1 votesactually, as much as i hate her, id rather play against than a good any day. he's the king of unfun...except maybe 
Kaelnor1 votes Imo is a BS champ in general for the fact he can just camp his turrets and win trades. Worse champion to ever go top against even as a ranged top or as 
. Not even 's Riposte would be enough to stop the face melting harass she's gonna take from those turrets, and can stun you too.
Lovelle1 votesAll of those champions, barring a very well played Irelia, is much easier to deal with than Fiora is right now, particularly after the laning phase.
Baby Ghoul2 votesWhy people say
Because they're stupid. Freelo implies she's easy to play for high benefits. She's not. Even Darius isn't when his benefits are crazy high at the moment.
As the base stat nerfs have left her vulnerable early game again, we're going to see less and less "Fiora OP" when the numbers were already dwindling. I can't wait to get through this patch. There's always going to be a few hangers on such as him, but they're going to go unnoticed. Just let them continue to act like we can't read her abilities and we haven't played her.
Let them cry I say. All they're going to do is make vague statements and fail to provide appropriate context in the hopes we're also stupid and will agree with them. Sorry guys, your window for mindless crying has closed, and you will have to start learning how to play against your opponent like the rest of us.
Kaelnor2 votesThank you! Someone who understands that learning to play against said champ is what brings the results in. Hell I've had mirror matches vs , and I destroyed every Fiora that went against me thanks to my mechanical knowledge and knowledge of how Fiora works.
I swear people need to learn how to play more and explore more avenues.
Spicy Rice1 votesHonestly, the only problem i have with fiora is how even if you wait out her mark, a new one spawns immediately, which i feel is a problem
Kaelnor1 votesActually that should happen, however you can make it go into a unfavorable position, and you can make it change by moving out of her passive's range.
Spicy Rice1 votesthe thing is, it gives her alot of lane dominance with the mark being in a favorable position, and as the opponent, there is no temporary relief if you successfully deny her from procing the mark, as another one instantly appears anyways. I feel as if, there should be at least a 10-15 sec delay if she doesn't proc her mark, as she can already get a new one by procing the current mark
Kaelnor1 votesMaybe so but if she gets gutsy, and goes for the unfavorable mark then it will still proc anyway. She's a burst champ not an AA one.
JJI7444 votesShyvanna lost a rather substantial amount of damage from her W upon the release of sated devourer. (Justified, as sated makes her damage absurd if she ever gets to AA someone she has hit with an E).
Now Shyvanna top can't get sated, so, yeah. Nerfs aimed at the jungler overflowed to toplane.
Sire Hippington1 votesnot really justified as she still has 20% bonus damage vs monsters on W, which could have simply been removed instead of dumpstering her lane....
JJI7441 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm5tAcO3,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-09-22T01:37:23.399+0000)
not really justified as she still has 20% bonus damage vs monsters on W, which could have simply been removed instead of dumpstering her lane....
It wasn't the damage to monsters that was the problem. A while back Riot buffed Shyvanna by making her burnout apply 10% of its damage (as additional damage), sated's ghost-strike procced that additional damage, and combined with her Q doublehit, Q cooldown reduction on-hit, and E % damage on-hit, Shyvanna's damage to champions was going to be off the charts with sated. To the point Riot pre-emptively nerfed her and she was still a terror with sated.
Is a shame the nerf overflowed to the toplane though, where she was already falling out of favor.
Sire Hippington1 votesHer asists, deaths, kills, damage dealt, damage taken and so on never were that great statistically, however, her creepscore especially within the enemie jungle was and still is nr.1, and with that her gold income despite haveing not to much kills. She also always dropped hard in winrate for 40+ games.
The reason for that is simple: She clears fast, can invade, gets an early level and gold advantage, snowballing fro it. The high dps vs monsters also helps at objective controll. Hover, come to endgame(40+ min), her gold and xp advantage are meaningless, as she will already have full gear and max level, while the rest catches up, and without xp/gold advantage, shyvana simply isn't very powerfull. Devourer just added a aditional powerspike, allowing her to snowball harder off the advantages she can get with her fast clear, especially cause she can stack it relativly fast.
So actually, the jungleclear is/was the main reason for her succes.
Ionian2 votesno sustain
MisterHealYoGirl2 votesShe gets hurt by the juggernauts, since she gets out0traded by them pretty hard. She's also just so much better jungle with devourer in the picture that Shyv top is hard to justify.
SSJTribe1 votesShe's still pretty good, its mostly just due to meta shifts. People now want the top lane to be CC machines, which Shyv really isn't. She's still really tanky with good back line dive capabilities though.
SaltyKracka1 votesShe got nerfed because lol Devourer Shyvana jungle.
and nobody missed yet another manaless toplaner
Only Play Darius1 votesNo sustain and she's simply too good with sated to pass up on smite.
She is still played top. What she does is shoves the lane then goes to the enemy jungle, kills the jungler and farms his creeps since no one can 1v1 her early on. Its a pretty toxic strategy and i'm happy it hasn't caught on, hopefully it never will.
Fowus1 votescinderhulk nerfs
Kaelnor1 votesI think it's because people think her damage isn't that good in top lane or something. However if you run 
,
, 
,
, 
, 
. You can be relatively tanky and still do good damage. That's just an example build though.
Dreadlocks1 votesLane bullies in general havnt been super popular top. Its generally safe tanks with CC and TP. The good ol' Renekton vs Shyvana match up is long gone =[
TLDR, in solo Q its still viable, in competitive, not as much. It was considered a somewhat safe pick when 
was op Top. But since that nerf shes not really a "safe pick" for competitive top laners
Sire Hippington1 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Shyvana/Top
pretty poor performance in higher elos, mostly cause off her nerfs that were targeted on her performance as devourer jungler(but hey, why not simply take the 20% bonus vs monsters from W, rather gut lane shyvana...) Aditionally we have the juggernaut rework, and darius+garren both do well vs her top, garren might have a though lane, but once she does well, she gets villian and is free food for him. Gnar still is decently often played and screws her, vayne is super popular and one of the worst champs to face as shy, lissandra got buffed and counters her...
She never was particularry strong as a sololaner, unless she could snowball her lane or split push, and right now, garen/darius/rene/trundle do better on both, splitpush and lanebullying.... As a teamfighter, she hardly works if she's in a carry position, cause she's all about drawing aggro, but as a sololaner, you have to offer more than that in a teamfight, and doing damage only works if you are ahead ith her, else you die befor you can brake through their peel/ have no damage items. As Jungler however, Drawing aggro away from your actuall carry poitions is fine come to lategame, they don't really need to do more than that. And thx to devourer, she's really punishing if you don't put some focus on her.
JustMyBassCannon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm5tAcO3,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-09-22T01:32:11.471+0000)
(but hey, why not simply take the 20% bonus vs monsters from W, rather gut lane shyvana...)
Because that would severely damage her jungle at all stages of the game. I did a lot of research on this subject, and removing that would have probably made her undesirable as a jungle pick. Considering the current meta where she can't really do well in a solo lane, destroying the one reason she's wanted in the jungle over other choices would have been far worse.
Also, they need to fix jungle items in general, so that it's either not problematic or not easy to take jungle items in the lane.
Maple Crusader1 votesJuggernauts happened.
