How to counter play?

THE MØNEY SHØT·Oct 10, 2019·1 votes·2,320 views

How to counter play camp down bot lane?

Issues/ Concerns:

Jungle will camp my lane bot lane and with little to no consequence. Still effectively csing and out leveling bot lane.
My jungle will afk farm and ignore bot lane and dragon control.( So no impact to the game)
Mid and Jungle will dive bot lane with no consequence and no counter play.
I use other strategies and tilt my teammates trying to be creative or try to play out of the situation.
In conclusion, i do not know what to do because there's not effective way to play out of this as an ADC.
Mid and Jungle, solo lanes, out level you so you consistently at disadvantage.

I feel like something has to happen to the jungle role or something because I don't think it's fair for a jungle just camping a lane without any consequences. I'm not sure what RIOT can do about this:

Possible solutions:

Make the jungle items rewarding for ganking and make harder to level in the jungle when AFK farming jungle. ( this will help force jungle to actually play with his/ hers teammates
Make actually supports stronger so they can help counter play the camp lane. ( I understand why riot doesn't want ADCs to be stronger)

Like if my jungle doesn't help me or refuses to help me. Why should i be punish because their jungle decides to help their bot lane and Mid and Jungle decides to camp me?

14 Comments

Posui GartOct 10, 20192 votes

Jungle will camp my lane bot lane and with little to no consequence. Still effectively csing and out leveling bot lane. My jungle will afk farm and ignore bot lane and dragon control.( So no impact to the game)

There are consequences. Any competent jungler can punish such camping by either ganking other lanes, counterjungling or counterganking. Asking "how do i win a game without a jungler" is like asking "how do i win 4x5". You usually don't.

Mid and Jungle will dive bot lane with no consequence and no counter play.

Again, there are consequences. What are your mid and jungle doing at the time? They can counter the dive or push/kill another lane. Its easier to dive 3v1(your mid, jungle and top vs their top) than 4v2(their bot, jungle and mid vs your bot)

I use other strategies and tilt my teammates trying to be creative or try to play out of the situation.

Your only valid strategy here(if you really are 4-men dived constantly and nobody helps with this) is to surrender your tower, ward jungle near t2 and safely farm there

Aatrox EichmannOct 10, 20191 votes

the exact shit Ive been trying to say

HunkmenlordyOct 10, 20192 votes

It's simple , you just need to dodge and kite, instead of run in and press everyting all together

Aatrox EichmannOct 10, 20191 votes

jungle is more of an issue top, as a guy who played only JG and Support I can tell you camping isnt too much of an issue unless they specifically camp you over and over(as if in duo). changes in jungle exp always ends in disaster. if a lane is being camped and your jungler's champ isn't kitted out to counter gank you might just end up losing more, jungle showing himself for a failed countergank is a huge issue, since it reveals where they are, opening up for the enemy's jungler to get the opposite side crab, contest the crab on that side with a free laner, clear his camps on the other side, or gank the lane the jungler is opposite to. lets say its a hecarim, if he comes in with pred boots its of course a great countergank, but if its a jungle cho with glacial or a rek'sai on the other side of the map doing clears or setting up another lane for vision/gank etc, its best for them to lay low and get a lead later or from elsewhere, that's the perspective of a jungler, if its a reksai or kindred, they'd take this opportunity to counter jungle and steal camps. at least I would. midlaners can also consider shoving and roaming to make up for this, this is why a good midlaner is so desirable to us as junglers, they can cover the other half of the map that we aren't on. as a support you can consider roaming or playing safe until you reach a powerspike, a great choice for this is bard, good roams, good gank setup, good damage on your own, good lane sustain for both adc&support.

Edit: I checked your match history, no biggie, I got this account of my own out from Iron II to gold in 2 weeks playing support in silver(yikes). what you might want to consider is taking PRESS THE ATTACK on kindred, every time. and play her in the jungle, she's only good there. as an ADC she is absolutely horrible and lacks kill pressure if there is no extra-man-gank-advantage since as an adc her ult does nothing to do extra dmg. as bard start into item 3098 , don't finish it and as soon as you can ward with it switch your trinket to Sweeping Lens(red ward reveal thingy that unlocks lvl9) and only finish the full support item if you're 1. Behind as shit 2.you have a few other items and have just enough gold for it for the extra hp stats & ward 3.last item as a bard heres the things you NEED to get in order: item 3905 item 3174 item 3107 other things like item 3109 and item 3504 optional, I've also seen that you run item 3100 on bard? DON'T DO THIS. it is a very niche item on bard and you might've seen other ppl run it in norms, its bc they're either ahead or their adc is behind as hell, its a FUN item to boost his dmg, bard is a support. not a duelist. though he can definitely fight when it comes down to it.

PSST if you really want to item 3100 it up, go item 3165 instead because it gives your already good Ability Power that penetration you need later and stops the enemies you hit from healing! [vlad-salute]

THE MØNEY SHØTOct 10, 20191 votes

This didn’t tell me no counter play to jungle camp while jungle out levels you and stays on top of your lane. Runes aren’t the problem. Jungle actually an issue. Support is the easiest lane not impressive

Aatrox EichmannOct 10, 20191 votes

if support is an easy lane, 50% of people who play the game(stats shown from OP.GG and etc) wouldn't be below gold, in fact I'd say climbing as a support is the hardest lane to play since you rely on your team to follow up your engage with their damage. its just about what you focus on in the game, CS and solokills as a primary laner, map micro as a jungler, and macro plays as a support, a mid roam or TP from top. in any case, there is not much things you can do to expressly "counter" a camp, but to try and play around it, and/or recover from it later on. its just how the game is meant to be played, if you think laning is too stressful just play jungle like I do. one thing you have to remember is that every time he camps you no matter mid top or jungle they LOSE something in return. how big that loss is is dependent on how good their counterparts are, i.e. YOUR teammates. midlaners need to push their lane towards the enemy turret to absorb all the EXP and gold before roaming or they risk having a level disadvantage and lose 1v1 vs their laner, and if they fail their roam your midlaner becomes stronger because they stayed in lane to take in extra EXP and gold that he didn't get to absorb. toplaners will have to waste their TP, and junglers open up toplane by ganking bot, and botlane by ganking top. they may also lose their camps on the opposite side of the map IF YOUR JUNGLER IS GOOD. (he knows when to gank other lanes and counter jungle the enemy when he shows up somewhere else**[YES I KNOW ITS HARD TO COME BY SUCH PLAYERS DOWN THE LADDER]**)

the changes you propose aren't going to help much if camping is the only thing jungle is concerned with. more exp from ganks will actually make them WANT to camp more since doing creep camps wont be as rewarding as eating botlane alive. conversely, if you make junglers GAIN more exp and gold from camps they would both hard farm. reducing the possibility of ganks, and ofc camps. that's what lead us to this exact gank-heavy jungler-wins-lane style of metagame [slayer-jinx-unamused]

THE MØNEY SHØTOct 10, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aatrox Eichmann,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fhT0Ab9O,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-10T07:14:38.505+0000)

if support is an easy lane, 50% of people who play the game(stats shown from OP.GG and etc) wouldn't be below gold, in fact I'd say climbing as a support is the hardest lane to play since you rely on your team to follow up your engage with their damage. its just about what you focus on in the game, CS and solokills as a primary laner, map micro as a jungler, and macro plays as a support, a mid roam or TP from top. in any case, there is not much things you can do to expressly "counter" a camp, but to try and play around it, and/or recover from it later on. its just how the game is meant to be played, if you think laning is too stressful just play jungle like I do. one thing you have to remember is that every time he camps you no matter mid top or jungle they LOSE something in return. how big that loss is is dependent on how good their counterparts are, i.e. YOUR teammates. midlaners need to push their lane towards the enemy turret to absorb all the EXP and gold before roaming or they risk having a level disadvantage and lose 1v1 vs their laner, and if they fail their roam your midlaner becomes stronger because they stayed in lane to take in extra EXP and gold that he didn't get to absorb. toplaners will have to waste their TP, and junglers open up toplane by ganking bot, and botlane by ganking top. they may also lose their camps on the opposite side of the map IF YOUR JUNGLER IS GOOD. (he knows when to gank other lanes and counter jungle the enemy when he shows up somewhere else**[YES I KNOW ITS HARD TO COME BY SUCH PLAYERS DOWN THE LADDER]**)

the changes you propose aren't going to help much if camping is the only thing jungle is concerned with. more exp from ganks will actually make them WANT to camp more since doing creep camps wont be as rewarding as eating botlane alive. conversely, if you make junglers GAIN more exp and gold from camps they would both hard farm. reducing the possibility of ganks, and ofc camps. that's what lead us to this exact gank-heavy jungler-wins-lane style of metagame [slayer-jinx-unamused]

So basically I have to hope of my jungle good and I’ll be camp by mid and jungle. I’m at disadvantage. My jungle will afk farm and be under level. Some how I solo queue and never get strong solo lanes. I tried to play around it. I explained that in my post. I had long discussion with friends and we realize there’s no counter play if your mid stays mid. Your jungle afk farm. Your lane being ignore and you are being dove without punishment. There has to be nerf someone in the jungle where the jungle can’t camp you and out level you

Aatrox EichmannOct 10, 20191 votes

have you considered that the people you run into at that low of an elo are sub average? the average game of league for silver II and above usually have people who know what to do and when to do it, nerfing the entire jungle just because the people under silver III cant gank properly is the most self centered idiotic proposal I've ever heard. as I said when you get camped the campers lose something elsewhere. its up to you and your team to capitalize on those opportunities. safely farming and warding near jungle at your second tower as botlaners, taking plates and pushing turrets as solo laners, ganking opposite lanes as a jungler and taking enemy camps.

THE MØNEY SHØTOct 10, 20191 votes

Seems like players can explain how to climb into gold not as adc but no can seems to tell me how to climb to gold as adc. That’s very interesting. Proving how weak the role is

Aatrox EichmannOct 10, 20191 votes

if you keep this mindset you cant improve, here. look at this patch's best to worst ADC picks as determined by pros. S+(almost obligatory if you want to win) Kaisa Caitlyn Jinx S(good) Ashe Vayne Lucian Draven A(decent) Xayah Jhin Ezreal Yasuo B(bottom line) Tristana Sivir MissFortune Syndra Varus C(pick for fun or if you main) KogMaw Swain Twitch D(no.) Kalista

notice how Kindred ADC isn't even on here because she is so awful as an ADC. I didn't tell you to climb as jungle, you must have not read my speech at all, or misunderstood my meaning. all I told you was to simply not play kindred ADC. trust me, its terrible compared to the S+ & S tier ADC's

SomeOneButNoOneOct 10, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aatrox Eichmann,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fhT0Ab9O,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-10T07:28:55.767+0000)

if you keep this mindset you cant improve, here. look at this patch's best to worst ADC picks as determined by pros. S+(almost obligatory if you want to win) S(good) A(decent) B(bottom line) C(pick for fun or if you main) D(no.)

notice how ADC isn't even on here because she is so awful as an ADC. I didn't tell you to climb as jungle, you must have not read my speech at all, or misunderstood my meaning. all I told you was to simply not play kindred ADC. trust me, its terrible compared to the S+ & S tier ADC's

Actually how that ADC list should look: S+ Kai'sa, Ezreal (if you can land skillshots) S Vayne, Xayah Everything else, don't pick it, except for maybe a very specific situation: Tristana, Draven

If you don't snowball as Draven you're useless. You pick Ezreal into squishies, Kai'sa into tanky teamcomps, and you're golden.

THE MØNEY SHØTOct 10, 20191 votes

Doesn’t explain how to beat a camp lane

Aatrox EichmannOct 10, 20191 votes

Im just copying off of proguides or something, personally Kai'sa/Lucian/Ezreal/Caitlyn are all I'd even dare pick right now.

THE MØNEY SHØTOct 10, 20191 votes

This didn’t explain anything how to counter play camp lane at all. The pick isn’t the problem and I play all those champions you mention. That doesn’t explain how to beat a camp bot lane by unpunished jungle