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Why "Playing to get S" and "Playing to win" are not the same thing. (Mastery Rant)

Candoodle··5 votes·589 views

So i'm a jungle main and I've noticed a few things about the mastery grading system that really rubs me the wrong way

There is waaay too much emphasis on CS (raw numbers) compared to Kill participation and objective control

Securing solo drake or harold early I'm actively hurting my chances of getting S because they only count as 1 cs does absolutely nothing for your mastery that you somehow managed to get 3 drakes and a harold at 20 min

So what options does this leave junglers trying to get S? TAX. tax tax tax and then tax some more

Your super fed mid or adc want one of your buffs? TOO BAD. Your laner wants to freeze that lane so they can catch up? SUCKS TO BE YOU. Smite the canon to send a message

The point im getting at is that I feel like me playing to get S a lot of times means doing something sub optimal for the team's over all chance of winning

Now I already have mastery 7 on my main and this isnt a rant about "boohoo i should have gotten so many S" I'm happy getting a A or B+ if it means getting the win. My main problem here is that this incentivizes players to play sub optimally, and then use there mastery score as an excuse

"well cant be fault we lost I got an S" that afk farm jungler with low kp shitty objective control but high CS

anyone else feel like this is silly or just me?

/RANT

14 Comments

Succeedsawce5 votes

It's you and everyone else who just doesn't get how the system works. Plenty of people do, and as junglers and laners get repeated S grades.

It's not "too focused on cs". It's focused on GPM mostly. Which includes gold from kills, cs, objectives, even wards, but kda and cs score do help. It's focused on ward score, which yours isn't amazing, and between 0-2 pink wards per game isn't nearly enough. It's speculated to be focused on damage done, which yours is next to nothing... even as a nunu player it should be a lot higher than it is.

All graded against every nunu jungle player in your region. So if they have 3x your cs, 3x your damage, twice your vision score, and better kdas. Yes, its 100% on you if you didn't get a good grade. And if you say something like "well what am I supposed to do when etc etc" and "i can't juggle this AND that"... it's up to you to find out, practice, and get better. Watch some videos.

I get consistent S's across many different roles and champs, including the jungle, and in several different elos. Because I understand what it takes to get it. But more importantly I understand what it takes to win. Because yes, these things literally ARE tied together. Getting high cs, a big gold lead for your team, objectives, good ward control, and good stats... these are the things that help to consistently win, and thus climbing. It's a good grading system for this reason alone. If you understand it, it actually teaches you what you need to play better and climb in ranked.

And if cs and taxing is a problem for you, think of it like this... after every successful gank, you want to shove the hell out of that turret to deny cs, yes? Do it, and ignore whatever your laner has to say. There's absolutely 0 point in freezing after the enemy laner is dead. Shove with yours and deny cs, while taking some for yourself. That's not taxing, that's playing smart and getting a team gold lead.

And there's no reason why you can't mid-late game, clear a gigantic wave with your ult if you have enough CD and no fight is imminent, nunu's ult isn't terribly long, and guess what? The gold helps you just as much as it does your grade.

Candoodle1 votes

listen buddy i dont care about gretting S i care about incentivizing an unhealthy playstyle

this

after the enemy laner is dead. Shove with yours and deny cs, while taking some for yourself. That's not taxing, that's playing smart and getting a team gold lead.

clearly not what im talking about like you said it's not taxing so why even bring it up

f you understand it, it actually teaches you what you need to play better and climb in ranked.

BullSHit.

youre just a meany who assumes the worst you can look at my match history youre damn self before spouting off a bunch of hate

Succeedsawce2 votes

holy fucking rage bro, calm the fuck down lol.

{quoted}

listen buddy i dont care about gretting S i care about incentivizing an unhealthy playstyle

There's absolutely nothing "incentivizing an unhealthy playstyle" about grading players based on the things that help you consistently win. Just because YOU don't understand that, and like to cry about it, doesn't make the system bad. But if that's how you feel tho, then maybe league of legends just isn't for you.

you can look at my match history youre damn self before spouting off a bunch of hate

I DID look at your match history, that's why half of what I said was talking about YOUR STATS, how YOU play Nunu, and what you can do better with him. Lol

And if you thought I was "spouting hate" rather than offering up some hard advice, you have some serious issues or really need to loosen up your godamn panties and stop being so touchy. Now I'm spouting some hate, see the difference cupcake?

clearly not what im talking about like you said it's not taxing so why even bring it up

That IS lane taxing, I was being facetious and making a fucking point you twit. And here you go, a perfect thread describing taxing and exactly what I was talking about. Even Riot Phreak commented, scroll down to see what he had to say about it, briefly touching on what I was talking about...

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/tips-tricks/ZhN3V1pA-lets-talk-about-lane-taxing

And you still don't get the part where cs is only part of the equation. Want to know how often I tax when I get S's on my jungle champs? Between not at fucking all, and only in the situation I provided in my original post. Keep blaming the system though, instead of realizing that you either waste time, make bad calls, or don't know how to get ahead.

BullSHit.

You made a thread about how you think grading is bullshit, and I corrected you as well as offering tips. if you don't like it, keep playing the same way and don't make any improvements. keep thinking that Riot is working against you in gold fucking 5 when the rest of the game moves on and does better.

Just remember, you're graded versus other players of the same champ/role. Like I said, it's 100% on you, not the system. You don't get to blame anyone here but yourself.

youre just a meany who assumes the worst

Did you really just call me a meany? xD

lmfao

Candoodle1 votes

also if you gonna be a smart ass post on your main

Succeedsawce2 votes

{quoted}

also if you gonna be a smart ass post on your main

L O L

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

The problem is, using the Nunu for an example, comparing Nunus across the region for the score is not exactly fair. A support Nunu building tank will be doing far less damage than an AP Nunu mid, but may have way more assists. I got an S for playing a conventional tank with 1 damage item Shen top lane, farming 24/7 with Titanic between ults, and quite a lot of kills as I wrecked my lane. I got an A for playing a top Shen building utility items, but having a godly amount of assists between my 45% CDR ults and TP... at the cost of a lot of CS.

Different playstyles, I was sort of carrying in the first game, and I was a dedicated support the next. Of course my damage, cs and kills would suffer compared to the first game. But I'm playing a totally different champ in a way, and should be judged differently IMO. Same goes for Kayle, which I play as support and found it so hard to get an S no matter how hard I tried. Ended up getting my level 7 from playing the usual carry Kayle. I have a feeling that the calculations makes assumptions of what is expected of the champ (if you're not getting kills as a champ who should be, you are bad).

Succeedsawce1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEeyA3Ny,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-05-25T15:25:14.094+0000)

The problem is, using the Nunu for an example, comparing Nunus across the region for the score is not exactly fair. A support Nunu building tank will be doing far less damage than an AP Nunu mid, but may have way more assists. I got an S for playing a conventional tank with 1 damage item Shen top lane, farming 24/7 with Titanic between ults, and quite a lot of kills as I wrecked my lane. I got an A for playing a top Shen building utility items, but having a godly amount of assists between my 45% CDR ults and TP... at the cost of a lot of CS.

Different playstyles, I was sort of carrying in the first game, and I was a dedicated support the next. Of course my damage, cs and kills would suffer compared to the first game. But I'm playing a totally different champ in a way, and should be judged differently IMO. Same goes for Kayle, which I play as support and found it so hard to get an S no matter how hard I tried. Ended up getting my level 7 from playing the usual carry Kayle. I have a feeling that the calculations makes assumptions of what is expected of the champ (if you're not getting kills as a champ who should be, you are bad).

That's why it's graded based on Champ AND Role across the region...

A Nunu support is only graded versus other Nunu supports. Not versus Nunu jungles, mids, tops, adcs.

And as for your Shen example, you are being graded versus other Shen tops. Which means plenty who build "tank/assist", who do what you did, but better. Better cs, more effective build (since Shen should never be running 45% cdr, ever) more kills, more assists, better vision score, more objective participation, better stats, etc.

Maybe that's just too harsh for some people to realize, but those are the people who make excuses rather than admitting they need to work at the game, and actively trying to improve themselves.

It's the same thing as players blaming everything but themselves for their low rank, all over again, but with a different system.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

That's why I'm comparing 2 of my own games. I felt like I did a lot better in the second game compared to the first which I was playing quite selfishly since I was fed, YET I scored an S. Besides, I said "utility", which is definitely different from "tank" although there are some overlaps.

I'm not saying that I'm that good, but my point is, if the grading gave me an S for that game, I definitely should've gotten a S+ for the other one. Different story if they gave me the A I believe should've gotten for the first game. It's the inconsistency in the grading that irks me sometimes.

Succeedsawce1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEeyA3Ny,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2017-05-25T16:07:21.665+0000)

That's why I'm comparing 2 of my own games. I felt like I did a lot better in the second game compared to the first which I was playing quite selfishly since I was fed, YET I scored an S. Besides, I said "utility", which is definitely different from "tank" although there are some overlaps.

I'm not saying that I'm that good, but my point is, if the grading gave me an S for that game, I definitely should've gotten a S+ for the other one. Different story if they gave me the A I believe should've gotten for the first game. It's the inconsistency in the grading that irks me sometimes.

The game that you're talking about, you had only 112 cs at 32 minutes. You did well in KDA, I'll give you that. But you have to think about a few things here...

For one, at 32 minutes, good cs is around 250. This is probably above average for Shens who use hydra, and essentially what you're up against (remember that an S = above average). Perfect cs would be 320.

As far as gold goes, you would have gotten FAR more gold from that additional 138 (to 250), and very easily gotten an S or S+, with even half as many assists. Because 1) assists themselves give very small amounts of gold, which is divided further among more people involved... and thus often equivalent to around 2 minions, and 2) death streaks reduce said gold amount by a LOT.

Like that Lucian for instance, who was 3-13-10. He was probably himself worth about 2 minions, on the kill itself. But the crazy part is, with his bad score... he had just as much gold as you did, because of minions.

One more thing you have to consider is that you had a very low vision score. Which counts for a lot. Buying pinks often, warding as often as they're up, destroying enemy wards... these are the kinds of things that give you and your entire team an edge in the game, as well as increasing your grade.

There's a reason why the grading system works the way that it does. And I'm not saying that you're bad either, just explaining that this is the most likely reason why your grades were so different.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

Ahah, figures. I was farming nearly the entire game with a titanic with that S game except for the occasional ults at 0 CDR. However in the other game, while I was located top lane, I was really playing as a roaming support which is the entire reason I was not at top lane nearly half the time.

Meanwhile, I got an S for my last Kayle support game despite the significantly worse KDA, gold AND kill participation. But it just happened that I was bot lane, so that's OK apparently.

I just read your other post about the GPM, that's an interesting thing to know. I'll have to keep track of my stats over the next few games to really notice the correlation.

Sir Yamazuki3 votes

I've always said it was silly since the first day. I had always been a gank and objective focused jungler and forcing myself to farm more had been pretty annoying. My best games have always been A+s with a lot of my S+ games being fairly mediocre.

5050BS1 votes

IKR

I get yelled at for my Yorick top lane when I die a few times before I hit his stride but win. When playing him to win I will not get S

Eternal Torment1 votes

i have to partially agree, cs seems to be a very decisive factor for the grading even thought riot said it doesn't. only time where i get anything above an A+ with a low cs count is if i Play support and that's because i at least can effectively Keep my cs count on 0

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

what if you couldn't get an S or higher unless you got the W ? if you lost no matter how well you did you could at best only get an A+ ?

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