Losses give us too much IP in the first 20 minutes

GoldenMean·Jan 14, 2015·4 votes·1,784 views

Because losses pay excellent IP for the first 20 minutes (compared to wins), and horribly for the time thereafter, it is currently best to surrender at 20 minutes even in games where it's roughly 50/50 chance of winning, unless you think that the game will end in the next 5 or 10 minutes.

So, basically my issue with the current system is that the first 20 minutes of a game have too much impact on your IP per hour and that it disincentivizes trying for wins after the 20-minute mark is passed.

(My original post was that we didn't get enough IP per win, but everyone read that as "we don't get enough IP" and the post got sidetracked.)

8 Comments

ChrºnºsJan 14, 20151 votes

Can you back up your claim? How much IP do u get for 10mins, 20mins, 30mins, 45mins, 60mins? As far as I know, most games give around the same amount of IP regardless of the length of game... with a win giving about double.

GoldenMeanJan 14, 20151 votes

My pleasure.

I had a 54 minute win today that gave 143 LP. If I did 3x20 minute losses at about 51 IP, that would net around the same IP/hr. ~~Conversely~~ (what is a good word here?), that 54 minute loss probably gave the other team around 110 IP or something like that. So there is a disincentive to play beyond 20 minutes if you need IP.

Further, a 30 min loss gives 61 IP, so you really do need to make that first 20 mins not pay as well, in order to get a decent incentive to play beyond if. IP/hr goes from 150/hr to 120/hr if you go from a 20 min loss to a 30 min loss, which is a loss of 20% of your IP, or to put it another way, it takes 25% longer to purchase your champs, etc. if you fight beyond the first 20 minutes, unless you're very sure of a win...

The other thing is that wins pay almost as well as losses in the first 20 minutes but they pay much worse than losses as the games progress.

TuffrootJan 14, 20151 votes

What if everybody that voted "Yes" on a surrender simply forfeited their IP?

ChrºnºsJan 14, 20151 votes

So IP Is calculated with the following formula: BASE IP + Match bonus + (BASEx2 for day boosts + ~100 IP for per win boosts) + First Win of the Day Bonus [if applicable].

So if you remove 'First Win of the Day' bonus which adds 150 IP to your reward... you are left with something like this: BASE IP + Match bonus + (BASEx2 for day boosts + ~100 IP for per win boosts)
Boosts are available for purchase with RP in the PvP.net store. There are two different types of boosts available in League of Legends --- ‘Days’ and ‘Per Win’ boosts.
(‘Days’ based boosts double the base IP earned from a game. For example if you earned 100 IP, a day boost would add an additional 100 IP boost to your account for a total of 200 IP. ‘Per Win’ boosts add a flat amount of around 100 IP per game.)

Now I assume you aren't using boosts, and that you didn't get the first win of the day bonus. Which means your IP is calculated: BASE IP + Match Bonus

For a win you get "18 + 2.312 * game length(minutes) = ip" And if you loose you will get "16 + 1.145 * game length(minutes) = ip"

In a 30 minute game that looks like this: For a win you get "18 + 2.312 * 30 = ip (87.36) And if you loose you will get "16 + 1.43 * 30 = (58.9)

TOO LONG DIDNT READ READ HERE:

With some of the IP math out of the way we need to consider the following: Games from 20 to 55 mins gain about 64 IP to 145 IP for a win. Games from 20 to 55 mins gain about 45 IP to 95 IP for a loss.

As I understand you, a 20 minute game gives 45 IP (around) for a loss. A 60 minute game gives 95 IP (around) for a loss.

Thus you are saying 45 IP x 3 games = Much more than 95 IP (1 long game).

What you haven't factored in was: 2 mins in Que waiting for a game 5 mins in champ select 5 mins in load screens

So your "20 min game" is closer to 30 or even 40 minutes depending on loaders.

Any way you look at this, there really isn't a way to get 5 consistent people to surrender at 20 mins and load instantly into a new game, blow through champ select and make huge IP gains.... Even if you were doing this with friends you would be gaining about 25 extra IP an HOUR.... wouldn't quality practice and just enjoying the game be worth much more than that?

5thYLJan 15, 20151 votes

Welp..... that wait time is if you are playing draft Blind pick: 30s in queue 90s in champ select 10s prepare and load in really varies...... I usually get 2 minutes but let's say 3

So pretty much you have a 6 minutes wait, and with a five man pre-made with the goal of easy ip farming.......

It's even possible to end the game in 10 minutes....... making for a 16 minute game with an ip gain go 30 I believe(your formula). This is much better than doing ten minute bot games~(If you didn't finish up the 180 bonus minutes, that is) when you are grinding for ip~

Oh and what about twisted treeline ip gains? you can end those even faster lulz

TabsJan 14, 20151 votes

I dont feel like the IP for losing in the first 20min should be reduced, but I feel like the rest needs to be increased.

AnomalousChimeraJan 15, 20151 votes

Most people don't care, period. I try to surrender in many ganes and am right on 90% of surrender votes but am often outvoted because the rest of the team thinks the game is winnable even when we are losing it on every level. I have never had a string of matches where people would consistently agree to surrender, so although you may have a point from a pure numbers standpoint, when you factor in queue times, dodges, champion select, loading times, and willingness to surrender on the part of the team, your post is basically irrelevant.

ChrºnºsJan 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Most people don't care, period. I try to surrender in many ganes and am right on 90% of surrender votes but am often outvoted because the rest of the team thinks the game is winnable even when we are losing it on every level. I have never had a string of matches where people would consistently agree to surrender, so although you may have a point from a pure numbers standpoint, when you factor in queue times, dodges, champion select, loading times, and willingness to surrender on the part of the team, your post is basically irrelevant.

This ^ sooo true