getting sick of op champions!

Devilreaper XIII·Dec 28, 2017·2 votes·1,141 views

nerf them already. or just get rid of them..... these piece of crap champions are too strong too resilient too dashy or simply spam too much like every match is urf.

or simply allow us to ban 73 champions before the game starts too many op champions.... gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta van gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban gotta ban and after that the game is balanced.....

and for the smart stars out there, these are about HALF the champions LoL got 139 champions 73 are op that leaves 66 champions.....

33 Comments

archerno1Dec 28, 20173 votes

[sg-lux-2]

OxyrottenDec 28, 20172 votes

But most of those aren't op?

And even if they did that wouldn't balance the game, in fact that would make it require further balancing.

Devilreaper XIIIDec 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

But most of those aren't op?

And even if they did that wouldn't balance the game, in fact that would make it require further balancing.

in what way are they not op?

OxyrottenDec 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-12-28T16:28:12.295+0000)

in what way are they not op?

This is my second time typing this up and it's taken like 2 hours so hopefully someone appreciates this.

TLDR: You listed like maybe 4 or 5 champs that are actually OP, my guess is you just need to play the rest of these champs to understand them better, or possibly work on your game knowledge and game play to not get abused by these champs (not trying to be toxic or bm you).

Akali not op just a burst/assassin (when lb lost her crown as the queen of burst princess akali stepped up), she's always just been a pubstomp champ, snowballs and punishes bads, but can be shut down in early game Blitzcrank not in a good state stats wise, blitz just punishes poorly coordinated teams and bads, his viability is debatable but not OP, his kit just offers so much utility that he will always be a viable pick even though he is underpowered, super easy to outplay not sure why brand is here, he's currently only viable as support, and is punished for not landing his full combo in rotation Caitlyn ADC's are just strong in the recent meta's, cait does nothing to stand out among adc's Chogath cho is strong but isn't that hard to play around, he's also item dependent which is ironic since his recent nerfs kind of lock him into a tank build path, just don't let him chain cc you or sit on your squishies and ult Darius darius got some big nerfs awhile back, is a bit better in the new patch but still easy to counter and outplay Diana hasn't been that great for awhile, she just benefits from the current focus on snowballing and burst champs, she's easy to outplay in lane and don't let her get fed and she's rather useless DrMundo not sure why mundo's here, his only strong points are his dmg output and his sustain/survivability both of which aren't that amazing, easily countered and easily outplayed Draven this one takes some insight but he's not as OP as he seems, he just snowballs well (which fits the current gameplay state) and has good dmg output, but he is completely mechanics dependent for damage, has no escapes, is easily countered and outplayed, and if he doesn't get a lead then he is rather useless, and comparatively speaking his damage really isn't anything special when looking at other adc's (it just seems so because it's burst damage, and again the state of the game favors burst and snowballing) Ekko balanced and can be outplayed, I think people just don't know how to play against him is all Evelynn debatable, stealth got a huge buff (rework) recently so that brought eve back to viable, but she is heavily skill dependent as you need to know how to position her to make use of her stealth mechanic Ezreal OP however a large part of that is due to the new patch, so it's arguable whether it's the champ or the new masteries Fiora not op, she is just rewarded for skill (although it is a low skill cap), can be baited/outplayed, depending on matchup can suffer from toplane syndrome Fizz debatable, he got some nerfs and could maybe use some more, just don't let him leave lane or roam/gank and you'll be fine, decently countered Galio debatable, he can be easily countered and outplayed, I'd say fairly balanced maybe a bit more dmg than is necessary Gangplank arguably strong and has a good damage reward for skill, although he can be outplayed, he benefits from the new patch which is a gameplay issue not a champ issue Gragas no idea why gragas is here, his passive and w are suffering, and he has one skill that's on a delay and a short dash, his ult just punishes bads and poorly coordinated teams is all, and he is pretty item dependent, easily outplayed Graves not in the greatest state at the moment, can be strong if fed but needs some love Hecarim has hec ever been good? he has high mobility and that's literally it.. the new patch may help him some but definately not enough, extremely item dependent and can be countered, pretty weak overall Irelia eh, kind of on the fence, she got nerfed pretty hard but the new patch hopefully will bring her back, better nerf irelia just in case :P JarvanIV got some serious indirect nerfs, is decent but no where as strong as he used to be, getting reworked soon Jax jax can be strong and has a high skill cap but I wouldn't say OP, he is easily countered and needs to be aggressive to be useful, he is a lot better in the new patch, but again that's gameplay balance not champ balance kassadin isn't as good as he used to be, he benefits from the strong focus on burst champs and snowballing (again gameplay balance not champ balance) but he isn't the best pick and needs to get fed to be usefull Katarina kat has always just been a pubstomp champ, decently countered and needs to be fed to snowball, benefits from snowball and burst meta, but she got some decent nerfs and isn't the best she just punishes poorly coordinated teams Kayn debatable, his w and e could use slight nerfs, but really he just benefits from the snowball and assassin meta (gameplay balance not champ balance), however on the flipside 90% of kayne players are so so so bad so does it really matter? he just punishes bad players who get caught solo farming Kled I think people just don't know how to play against him, he could maybe use some slight nerfs Leblanc lb got nerfed pretty hard, she lost her crown as the queen of burst and isn't the best pick anymore, just a burst champ but that's gameplay balance not champ balance LeeSin lol, lee got nerfed into oblivion awhile back because of all the asian abuse (not being racist), he's a bit better in the new patch but still not the best, his mobility and ability to set up plays will always be nice but overall he is in a pretty bad state Lulu debatable, although she is somewhat adc dependent Lux her kit will always be strong for the versatility and utility it offers, she is in a good place but I wouldn't say OP, can be counterpicked and decently outplayed MasterYi yi got nerfed pretty hard a while back, and another nerf to his alpha, he's really not that great of a champion, super easy to counter, he's just a pubstomp champ is all and is slightly benefiting from the snowball and assassin meta's (gameplay issues not champ issues), overall he hasn't been good for awhile, his kit or lack of mechanics make it super easy to not necessarily outplay him but abuse his low skill cap if that makes sense Morgana morg is matchup dependent and bounces between strong and unviable, but I wouldn't say OP, her kit just punishes poorly coordinated teams and bads is all, and she really doesn't get the benefit of the snowball meta that she should (can't believe I'm saying that), can be outplayed Nasus nasus is a bit better in the new patch, but has never been that good, he extremely easy to counter and suffers from toplane melee syndrome, if he doesn't stack well then he is just useless, and his mechanics pretty much lock him into a single strategy/playstyle subtracting from team comp strategies, he's just really fun to play (if your into that sort of thing) and hopefully will be more viable next season Nidalee got nerfed hard and lost viability awhile back, she is somewhat matchup dependent and can be decent in the right comp but overall doesn't offer much other than poke, easy to outplay Nocturne decent but hasn't been that strong for awhile, good initiation and ganks but not the best pick comparatively speaking Olaf never a bad pick due to his kit, but he could use some buffs to bring him back to where he was, the new patch should be showing him some love Rakan ummm maybe this was an accident lol, rakan is pretty weak, he is soo adc dependent and really only works well with 1 or maybe 2 adc's, other than synergizing with xayah he doesn't have much to offer meh renekton is just renekton, he's stronger in the new patch but still easily countered and outplayed, he's always been strong but is pretty simple and suffers from toplane melee syndrome Rengar possibly OP, he benefits greatly from the assassin and snowball meta, also stealth and bush mechanics are easily abusable, though he needs to be fed and is rather squishy Riven debatable, have to see where the new season puts her, she likes the new patch but I don't think she will be OP like she used to be Sejuani has sej ever been good? Shen strong but I wouldn't say OP, he's definately not as good as he was and can suffer from toplane syndrome, he benefits from the tank meta and new patch but balanced overall if not a bit weak Shyvana possibly OP, really strong but lacks any mechanics to abuse and can be outplayed, sort of falls into the pubstomp category where she just punishes bad players and snowballs Singed see nasus: can be strong but easily countered and outplayed, farms well but is locked to a strategy and build, suffers from toplane syndrom Swain used to be secretly OP, not sure if he is anymore, easy to counter and can be outplayed Syndra has improved, but overall is just average TahmKench got nerfed hard, no where near as good as he was and needs some good buffs to bring him back, he's not terrible but is easily outplayed although his kit still is useful in it's utility, can suffer from toplane syndrome depending on matchup Talon debatable, his mobility buff really helped him a lot, and he is loving the assassin and snowball meta's (but that's an issue with game balance not champ balance), decently countered and decently outplayed, he just roams and punishes bad positioning

Devilreaper XIIIDec 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

This is my second time typing this up and it's taken like 2 hours so hopefully someone appreciates this.

TLDR: You listed like maybe 4 or 5 champs that are actually OP, my guess is you just need to play the rest of these champs to understand them better, or possibly work on your game knowledge and game play to not get abused by these champs (not trying to be toxic or bm you).

lol? maybe you yeah O.o??? i play since beta/alpha

Akali all you have to do is spam her mark and oneshot opponents whilst healing yourself kitwise..... bs i've done math on blitzcrank.... hes a tank but can instakill when he goes ap and still be tanky -.- 1 grab = death. waves his hand and pentakills.... he even does damage when he misses -.- Caitlyn except have bs range and traps and empowered shots together with a headshot as ult..... AND a getaway net that slows down. Chogath just build tank and stack, and cho will be unstoppable....LITERALLY. Darius nope still oneshots... Diana shes a tank with high burst... how is that not op? DrMundo yeah cause an unstoppable tank that chunks hp is not op at all... Draven the adc with literally the highest damage rate.... he can be 0/10 early he will still own late game :/ Ekko the sheer burst damage whilst recovering 100% health..... it has nothing to do with outplaying. Evelynn not only can she become invisible, but becomes untargetable AND blinks 725 units AND charms AND gains health regen she doesn't even need warmog -.- AND does double damage to low health champions i don't even know if the runes stack with that..... Ezreal is viable in every lane, spams his abilities minus ult every 3-4 seconds and does enormous damage with just sheen.... heck he can even blink away AFTER maokai grabs him.... Fiora survives 1vs5 easy and destroys everything in her path whilst spamming parry. Fizz the only thing that counters assassins is zhonya, not everyone can add that to their build. Galio is supposed to be a tank, but does massive damage, whilst still tanking a fair amount. Gangplank if he doesn't instakill you with crit he does so with barrels -.- oh and hes tanky..... and his ult has too far reach. Gragas oh idk.... hes a tank that bursts you down easy maybe? Graves are you nuts or something? he needs nerfs for sure..... op as fk is also viable in jungle -.- Hecarim are we playing the same game???? you see him coming you know you're dead.....extreme tanky with extreme burst damage....with extreme mobility. Irelia high burst damage medium tanky gains free tenacity and high sustain..... JarvanIV seen him after nerfs, nothing changed.... still jumps in oneshots and walks out whilst tanking. Jax just jump in stun and burst to death in 1,5 seconds rinse and repeat. Kassadin very hard to get killed with kassa doesnt suffer minion block since hes perma ghost and he takes 15% less magic damage, and gains a shield that blocks magic damage for 1,5 seconds and can interrupt channels and can restore mana with his own kit and can blink.... just add magic block from runes to that and you have anti magic champion.... Katarina almost all assassins are op, as i said only zhonya counters assassins.... high burst she still dashes away. Kayn was talking darkin kayn.... tanky and high burst damage altogether and he gains almost 100% health back as well. Kled just too much damage again whilst being tanky. Leblanc are we playing the same game?? she still oneshots.... LeeSin i honestly don't think we are playing the same game :/ or na just bad overall??? Lulu uhm again are we playing the same game??? seen plenty of lulu's with adc build own like crazy.... she is not adc dependent at all her kit has everything..... heck seen her top, jungle, mid and adc. Lux ult spam, aoe slow, empowered basic attack, shield, snare..... MasterYi especially op in low elos... still outsustains any damage done, and melts anyone whilst being untargetable. Morgana Q W R = death, and since riot reworked morg she also has her sustain back -.- shes boring to play. she even got a cdr on her W .o. and a shield that blocks all abilities.... but not op or anything i personally ban her every match. Nasus just stack.... 5 seconds slowdown 95% and halves atk speed and lowers armor by 35%.... another case of high burst tank. Nidalee 1 spear + cougar bash = death, relatively easy to play, can keep safe distance has a sustain a dash and can only be countered by zhonya. Nocturne lol? easy 1vs5 is extreme tanky and does extreme damage..... Olaf ive seen olaf and cried.... extreme tanky simply didnt die and easily 1vs5 with high burst damage oneshots whilst desroying tower all simultaneously... Rakan maybe in na server.... hes extreme tanky, can shield twice and heal himself and others, and still does damage, knocks up and charms as well. Renekton extreme tank extreme damage and has mobility. Rengar oneshots anyone be it squishy or tank from a bush, he definitely needs a nerf and asap. Riven she has never been nerfed since release.... heck riot recently even buffed her triple dash.... Sejuani in euw server? YES! double armor/mr? high damage, cannot be slowed but can slow and EVEN stun you? Shen extreme tanky, he still does damage and gives defense benefits :/ Shyvana stacks dragons jumps in 1vs5 and pentakills.... Singed just run around is all... the high damage from the cloud is insane, hes extremely tanky as well, and has quite the mobility, just so boring to play as well. Swain a tank with high sustain and high damage..... Syndra still oneshots you, or finishes you after stunning you from far away -.- TahmKench nonsense.... still does damage, still tanks, still eats....nothing changed. Talon only way to counter him is through zhonya, still oneshots still leaps over walls, heck i played talon once in aram, i asked for jest if he were ad, they told me to play him as tank, so i did, no one complained XD and i still TOOK KILLS and i was full tank....

OxyrottenDec 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-29T10:23:10.221+0000)

lol? maybe you yeah O.o??? i play since beta/alpha

Played since beta too.. But your not demonstrating very good understanding of the champs or the game's underlying mechanics and design. The balance is created by a number of different factors that give and take from a champion and or strategy. One shotting someone does NOT make them OP if that is intentionally apart of their design and gameplay, besides that your points all seem to consist of "they got fed and became unstoppable" well no duh. If you have a decent amount of understanding you can learn to play around a lot of these champs skills and mechanics, you realize you can dodge most skillshots right?

all you have to do is spam her mark and oneshot opponents whilst healing yourself kitwise.....

She is an assassin, she is supposed to oneshot.. That's literally her design, that doesn't make her OP. I will say her aoe stealth pool is a bit stronger than it should be just based off low cd's with no punishment mana/cd wise.

bs i've done math on blitzcrank.... hes a tank but can instakill when he goes ap and still be tanky -.- 1 grab = death.

Yes, of course most tanks/supports can scale well with AP.. BUT that's because it's not actually viable to build them AP.. SO why would that be a problem? Does not make him OP. 1 grab should equal death because the basis of this game is positioning, blitz's design is to punish or capitalize on people being out of position, the only way to die to this is to make a mistake, fair balance design..

waves his hand and pentakills.... he even does damage when he misses -.-

Getting a penta in no way makes someone OP... His kit is that he has to land an entire rotation to combo, and it is a skill shot based rotation.. You get rewarded for landing it, and his ult is easily avoided..

except have bs range and traps and empowered shots together with a headshot as ult..... AND a getaway net that slows down.

Yes, again that is literally her character design. The last season or two she has been woefully underpowered, she is just now getting some strength but if you look at the statistics on her she STILL loses to vayne (WHO SHE COUNTERS) how does rock losing to scissors make rock OP?!? Her empowered shots are a mechanic that you have to intentionally use to abuse.. Same with traps.. And how does a skillshot escape possibly make her OP?

just build tank and stack, and cho will be unstoppable....LITERALLY.

Again I don't think you have put much thought into his design or how the game works, ANYONE who is allowed to stack all game will become unstoppable, you reaally need to start thinking less about getting wrecked and more about how you got wrecked, why you got wrecked and how to avoid getting wrecked in the future..

nope still oneshots...

Stop thinking about oneshots, please. Save yourself the groaning. Darius can only one shot if fed, if someone is fed the OP argument goes out the window..

shes a tank with high burst... how is that not op?

She is not a tank... She is a burst mage who functions as an assassin.. I can't believe we are having this conversation..

yeah cause an unstoppable tank that chunks hp is not op at all...

Mundo (like sooo many of these champs) is EASILY countered and outplayed, his main source of damage is a skillshot with a decently slow missile speed.. The rest of his damage is meh, and his survivability is just a regen, easily countered and shutdown. You really played since alpha?

the adc with literally the highest damage rate.... he can be 0/10 early he will still own late game :/

Man you either didn't read what I wrote or haven't played draven, or both.. If he has a high DPS rate not the highest damage rate (what does that even mean?) but his dps comes in the form of burst because he has detailed mechanics system that requires decently high skill to play, he also sacrifics that damage in team fights and has an ulty that is just tacked on and doesn't fit with his kit. He is easily countered, and outplayed, and does NOT own late game if you go 0/10.. he is rather useless if you don't get an early lead and start your snowballing mechanincs.. you need to start thinking about the game strategically..

the sheer burst damage whilst recovering 100% health..... it has nothing to do with outplaying.

His burst damage isn't that high comparatively speaking, he recovers health by returning to predictable locations and with predictable timings... how is that not outplayable??

not only can she become invisible, but becomes untargetable AND blinks 725 units AND charms AND gains health regen she doesn't even need warmog -.- AND does double damage to low health champions i don't even know if the runes stack with that.....

she is strong, but you have to position properly to make good use of her stealth mechanics, her charm requires range and additional on hit mechanics and is easily avoidable (not only that but you get a looong warning prior to it being activatable..) her blink and regen are a defensive mechanic because her only escape is her stealth that isn't viable as an escape without stupid high movespeed (which isn't that viable as abuild to begin with) on top of that she is squishy as all get out and generally has to build glass cannon..

is viable in every lane, spams his abilities minus ult every 3-4 seconds and does enormous damage with just sheen.... heck he can even blink away AFTER maokai grabs him....

his blink mechanic is on a long cd to punish him for misusing it, and in your example all you have to do is bait it or have mao just wait and grab him again... the only useful spammable skill is his q that's a skillshot and his primary source of damage, that makes it completely outplayable, he is also mana dependent making him need to conserve his q (and not just spam it). He is very strong and probably needs nerfs with the current mastery system, but is not viable in every lane, he only works adc or mid in certain matchups..

survives 1vs5 easy and destroys everything in her path whilst spamming parry.

Only if she is fed.. and her mechanics require her to position in a specific way, much like eve..

the only thing that counters assassins is zhonya, not everyone can add that to their build.

Have you put any thought into this? His laning is incredibly weak and he rely's on roaming and getting fed to be effective.. he has decent counters, and his ult and leap are easily avoidable..

Zed geniusDec 28, 20172 votes

yikes

ResterDec 28, 20172 votes

Just play Dota, everything is balanced around the fact that everyone is OP in their own way.

Devilreaper XIIIDec 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Just play Dota, everything is balanced around the fact that everyone is OP in their own way.

i tried dota it sucked :/ except for the donkey V.V

OxyrottenDec 29, 20171 votes

Thresh see blitz: always a solid pick because his kit just offers so much utility, he could use some slight attention to his stats and scaling but overall pretty balanced Tristana possibly OP, ADC's are just strong right now and trist is one of the leaders, she's easy to play against early game, but late game becomes a monster and her ability to hypercarry and affect the game regardless of her team is arguably OP Trundle stronger in the new patch, he's loving the new masteries, but overall trundle has never been anything special Tryndamere jesus I could write a book about this, tryn hasn't been OP since season 2 (if I remember correctly, and if he was OP at all) and has recieved a number of nerfs since then, EASILY countered a number of ways and decently outplayed, suffers HARD from toplane syndrome, also see draven: what was op about tryn was never his ult but his dmg output on his q, but that got all but removed entirely (pretty sure it was season 2) and then he got several more hard nerfs after that just because everybody bitched constantly and nobody understood tryn so riot kept him because it was the presidents character but nerfed him into uselessness, tryn then got countless indirect nerfs that made him less than useless (I think they gave up trying to please people and made him unviable and replaced him with yas and draven), not to mention he is just horrible in the meta for the last 2-3 years Twitch see trist: arguably OP, has the ability to hypercarry and effect the game regardless of team, really just punishes poorly coordinated teams and bads, can be decently countered Udyr eh, he's really not that strong just has such a low skill cap that anyone can do well with him, his mechanics have the same pro's and con's they are short spammable skills that can be abused, but on the other hand they aren't really definitively skills just passives that can't necessarily be abused, add to that udyr has no ultimate which really detracts from what he offers team play, he can be somewhat useful in team fights, but his really only viability is locked to split pushing or roaming, can be countered and harder to outplay since there isn't really any skills to outplay, his biggest strength is mobility which leaves a lot to be desired of his kit, suffers from toplane syndrome Urgot can be strong with a skilled player but has a higher skill cap and his rework hurt him a lot imo even if it did bring him back to viable, can suffer from toplane syndrome, decently countered and decently outplayed, SLOWER than your autistic sister at a spelling bee Varus ADC's are just in a good place and varus is pretty strong, not sure I would say OP but it's debatable Vayne see varus: vayne is definately farther down the tier list than some of the other adc's mentioned, although she has a strong kit and will always be viable as a hypercarry Velkoz eh, he's kind of just been pushed into a support role so he can spam skills, he does a decent job countering in bot lane but leaves a lot to be desired from a support, low to mid elo has this stupid meta where nobody plays support so whoever gets autofilled just plays full ap as support (blame the state of the game) a lot stronger this season, not unviable but fell off pretty hard in past seasons Vladimir debatable, highly matchup dependent, can be countered and outplayed MonkeyKing hasn't been in the greatest place recently, hopefully this new patch and season will bring him back, altogether not a bad pick, easily countered and suffers from toplane syndrome Xayah pretty strong and spammable skills/attacks that bring utility and aoe, not sure I would say OP but with adc's being how they are she's pretty good Xerath OP if your a scripter maybe, needs to snowball but can be shutdown easily, can be outplayed, really just punishes bads is all XinZhao strong, will probably always be strong, but not as strong as he was, just another pubstomp champ that likes to snowball, can be countered Yasuo arguably OP, has a decent skill cap with high rewards, decently countered and decently outplayed, likes the snowball meta and the assassin meta but by himself is pretty strong overall Zac lolwut, zac's fun but other than the buff/nerf juggling at release I don't think he's ever been all that strong, his ult and passive can add a lot though, decent skill cap I suppose Zed see talon: zed is strong but he's supposed to be, he just shines in this stupid assassin meta and snowball meta (but that is mostly the state of the game balance, not the champ balance, mostly), arguably OP Ziggs really? I mean when sieging bot lane was a broken cheese strategy maybe, I mean he has good poke and some utility but other than a good skill cap he falls behind other AP mids Zoe OP, BUT partly due to bads not knowing how to play against her, she definately needs nerfs, her skills are wayyy too spammy and she is rewarded for landing skill shots but not punished for missing them, longer cd's and higher mana costs are definately needed, also the free klepto seems like a pointless buff to an already strong kit

Devilreaper XIIIDec 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thresh bs he does more damag than an adc, he can stack and hes tanky. Tristana ehm her jump and knock away are what makes her op, and stop saying adc are op, they are not... what is op is sustain atm, and crit. Trundle ....... high sustain has mobility burst damage and takes your stats for himself....whilst being incredibly tanky. Tryndamere just build crit and oneshot? maybe in na..... Twitch the high damage is insane, still not as high as draven though. Udyr .... just stun with bear tear apart with tiger and defend with turtle.... how hard can it be? Urgot again maybe in na.... extremely tanky and still does massive damage.... Varus its the poke + cc that makes him op, it goes through minions and he can slow and snare you. Vayne she has way too much mobility, she can stun and become untargetable, and has true damage. Velkoz i'm main support, and i always play full ap..... unless i play maokai, than i play tank V.V velkoz is easy to play just spam abilities with high burst..... never see velkoz sup always mid. what are you talking about she never fell off O.o, has always been op.... high burst whislt being tanky. one of the few champions that can still solo drake at lvl 3. Vladimir high burst whilst being tanky says enough... and the high sustain with it.... MonkeyKing WTF??? ok you lost all credibility.... wukong oneshots faster than any assassin O.o Xayah attacks go through minions, high damage and becomes untargetable. Xerath wtf O.o its a artillery mage he destroys from a distance hes untouchable unless you cant play with xerath...... XinZhao yeah jumps in 1vs5 under tower destroys everything and walks away at lvl 3... but not op or anything. Yasuo has too much defense in his kit, and can oneshot with aa crits and aoe oneshot with ult. -.- Zac so you are not aware, you can oneshot by just building tank? Zed only counter is zhonya... all you need to do is target with ult and tada..... Ziggs an artillery mage that spams high burst damge from an unreachable distance unless you are xerath. Zoe she can be 0/10 and still oneshots, she is rewarded with an aoe sleep field when she misses, and she gets free summs and potions.....

the current meta is tank/assassin currently sustain, overall defense and burst damage are what are op. but these champions are op stat or kitwise.

OxyrottenDec 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-12-29T10:41:24.255+0000)

bs he does more damag than an adc, he can stack and hes tanky.

he does not do more damage than adc... where did you get that idea? ANYONE can stack.. ANYONE can build tanky.. you have failed to explain your point..

ehm her jump and knock away are what makes her op, and stop saying adc are op, they are not... what is op is sustain atm, and crit.

She is very strong and what? crit? nobody has been building crit for a season or two.. lethality is the standard build for any adc.. ADC's are strong because they (currently) have more impact on the game than any other lane..

her jump is just a resetable escape.. and her knockback just adds to her burst design..

....... high sustain has mobility burst damage and takes your stats for himself....whilst being incredibly tanky.

what's your point?

just build crit and oneshot? maybe in na.....

but you can't anymore... tryn hasn't been viable for years now.. he is the most EASILY countered champ in the game. period. he is extremely item dependent and requires a lot of farm, so yeah if your letting him afk farm and nobody on your team builds armor and nobody pokes or trades with him in lane (shit that's all you have to do to shut him down from lvl 1-18)

what are you guys doing over there across the pond???

the high damage is insane, still not as high as draven though.

It is insane, but it comes with mechanics that can be limiting, learn to play around him..

.... just stun with bear tear apart with tiger and defend with turtle.... how hard can it be?

you have failed to illustrate your point.. yes he has multiple skills, and a rotation, so does every single other champ in the game..

again maybe in na.... extremely tanky and still does massive damage....

but his tankyness and damage come at a price... are you familiar with the term "pro's and CON'S"?

its the poke + cc that makes him op, it goes through minions and he can slow and snare you.

can be predicted and dodged, his poke has pretty long windup needed to do damage. his snare is also dodged and can be avoided in team fights

she has way too much mobility, she can stun and become untargetable, and has true damage.

her OP'ness comes from the new patch, not champ balance, prior to patch she was severely underpowered, so how does that make HER OP?

i'm main support, and i always play full ap..... unless i play maokai, than i play tank V.V

I think we have come to the crux of the issue.

velkoz is easy to play just spam abilities with high burst..... never see velkoz sup always mid.

he's really only viable as support anymore because of his skills ability to zone and counter adc positioning in lane, other midlaners outshine him (for the most part, he could probably be played mid just not that competitively.)

what are you talking about she never fell off O.o, has always been op.... high burst whislt being tanky.

Eh I'll concede this point as I have been playing her lately and she is pretty strong under the new patch.

high burst whilst being tanky says enough... and the high sustain with it....

how does that say anything? your literally complaining about design that balances the game, should champs not be bursty? should champs not be tanky? should champs not have sustain? none of that or even the combination of those make someone OP...

WTF??? ok you lost all credibility.... wukong oneshots faster than any assassin O.o

Who are you playing with that let's wu get to one shot status?!?!?! He can only one shot if fed... Your literally disproving your own points..

attacks go through minions, high damage and becomes untargetable.

again, what's your point? should all champs just have a basic aa?

wtf O.o its a artillery mage he destroys from a distance hes untouchable unless you cant play with xerath......

so then don't try to trade with him from a distance?!? have you given this any thought at all? his long range literally roots him...

yeah jumps in 1vs5 under tower destroys everything and walks away at lvl 3... but not op or anything.

your main complaint seems to be that champions are not all the same and the variation in champ design creates multiple playstyles and strategies... For every strategy there is a counter...

has too much defense in his kit, and can oneshot with aa crits and aoe oneshot with ult. -.-

his ult is completely dependent on him landing skill shots, skill shots that can only be used by proc'ing them, procs that can only be made by landing short range directional attacks... how have you not figured this out?

so you are not aware, you can oneshot by just building tank?

no. You can't.

only counter is zhonya... all you need to do is target with ult and tada.....

he's an assassin, that's what he's supposed to do.. that doesn't make him OP... he is really strong, and then add in all the snowball mechanics.. yeah he gets strong, learn to play around his skills and don't feed him in lane or let him roam..

an artillery mage that spams high burst damge from an unreachable distance unless you are xerath.

do you just need me to link guides on how to play against certain champs?

she can be 0/10 and still oneshots, she is rewarded with an aoe sleep field when she misses, and she gets free summs and potions.....

no she can not one shot as 0/10.. her aoe sleep field is a stationary aoe on a delay if you can't walk around it... I agree her klepto is unnecessary for her, she is OP but not her strength in one shotting, it's that she is not punished for missing skill shots.

Devilreaper XIIIDec 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

O,O hecarim Euw.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmoEhS2kUQU&feature=youtu.be

OxyrottenDec 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-30T16:47:44.726+0000)

O,O hecarim Euw.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmoEhS2kUQU&feature=youtu.be

Wow, you got a clip of a single game in which hec got fed and smashed some squishies... Yet you let this affect your view of the game without doing any analysis...

33 minute game and hec pulled 30k dmg and 19 kills... Impressive at first glance. But this is like saying I went 10/0 last game that literally means nothing.. There are soooo many factors that lead to getting fed (or the opposite) that kda means nothing especially from previous games with no context..

But then you need to realize that is above average, wayyy above average in a number of different ways.

Just to start he's carrying his team, so he snowballed and got fed (problem with gameplay balance NOT champ balance), by the clips I would assume that your amazed that a higher level champ with better item completion was able to do impressive damage on squishy champs with low base armor and that did not build a single defensive item even though they were behind and were facing a fed enemy... You have GOT to start thinking analytically.. Why is he fed is the question...

33 minutes into game and NO ONE on your team built a SINGLE defensive item against a champ that has 2/3rds of the kills on the enemy team??!? That tells me he was capitalizing on player decisions, both his and your own.. Meaning player skill (or lack of) not champ balance.. 33 minutes means your pretty well into late game (since riot removed mid game even) and so let's assume that your team fighting 5v5 at this point, ONE carry having 2/3rds of the kills means you only need to focus a single target and then the gold distribution and experience not only levels out but tips in your favor, 17-36 means a hec with only deadmans can be bursted (in theory) by the time he trades even or hopefully before if you position and coordinate properly (hopefully your panth is able to direct that fight and carry it), that results in the effective score becoming 17 - 7 (this is all assumption and theory by the way but hopefully it illustrates how you need to start thinking)..

But lets get back to reality your bot lane fed, hard, not being rude just there's no way around it, so your adc responsible for dps throughout a teamfight is going to be inneffective even if you do remove hec from the equation, zoe was less than impressive as well and lacked a decent gold/itemization needed to burst down hec and reset to burst on the other carries, and amumu... well amumu just had no idea what he was doing not to mention he went full ap which hasn't been viable since like ever (it used to work as a troll build but wasn't viable, newest patch removed it even functioning so it's less than not viable) so that means the roles of dps and burst AND dive and peel and tanking ALL fall onto panth, panth is pretty strong (if you want to cry he's OP I wouldn't argue) but without the snowball mechanics in the game that he was denied since hec was running rampant it's just not possible without being fed (how did he not shut down nasus!? makes me question his skill as well)..

So you have a hard feeding adc, a hard feeding supp (again no offense, we have all been there), a mid that's far behind, a jungle that I can only imagine was afk farming while drooling on his keyboard and jerking off to the idea of an ap amumu carrying kda (seriously how does the jungle have a cs lead on your adc?!), and a panth that either wasn't given a chance to lane properly (and I can only imagine was pretty tilted at the state of his team) or was having autistic seizures himself (and somehow is expected to carry an entire team without any sort of gold/experience advantage).. AND YOUR FOCUS IS CRYING ABOUT HEC?!? YOU SHOULD BE CRYING ABOUT YOUR TEAM... analytically hec was not in the very least the problem, he was likely just a decent player who capitalized on an entire team making mistakes..

So then let's look at the stats, hec on average is an early game champion capitalizing on early movement speed (and enemies typical lack of movespeed to escape), meaning he IS SUPPOSED to snowball early but ONLY IF YOU LET HIM.. On average his damage is like 15k which is abysmal, his win rate is below 50%, he is in the FOURTH quarter percentile for jungler's (36 out of 42!?!?! and you think he's OP? That's literally the worst of the bottom tier...)

Your not learning from your mistakes and getting better at the game because your too busy making excuses, now that excuse making and lack of responsibility and understanding has gotten to the point where you literally think over half the champs in the game are OP... I won't even go into you taking zil into lane to supp a luc against xayah and braum (I'm not one for counterpicks but come on..) NOW DO YOU SEE WHY YOUR ASSESSMENT OF OP CHAMPS CAN NOT BE TRUSTED LET ALONE UNDERSTOOD?!

Devilreaper XIIIDec 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Wow, you got a clip of a single game in which hec got fed and smashed some squishies... Yet you let this affect your view of the game without doing any analysis...

33 minute game and hec pulled 30k dmg and 19 kills... Impressive at first glance. But this is like saying I went 10/0 last game that literally means nothing.. There are soooo many factors that lead to getting fed (or the opposite) that kda means nothing especially from previous games with no context..

But then you need to realize that is above average, wayyy above average in a number of different ways.

Just to start he's carrying his team, so he snowballed and got fed (problem with gameplay balance NOT champ balance), by the clips I would assume that your amazed that a higher level champ with better item completion was able to do impressive damage on squishy champs with low base armor and that did not build a single defensive item even though they were behind and were facing a fed enemy... You have GOT to start thinking analytically.. Why is he fed is the question...

????? he was lvl 6 i was lvl 5 he only had shoes and jungle item.... what better items? the first he killed was pantheon, a beefier champion if i may say. and just because i'm zilean doesn't mean every champion does that damage, its rare to be honest, ive only seen assassins do that damage.

i can tell you why he's fed, he does too much damage early game, without penetration. whilst tanking alot as well. lvl 5 zilean 700 hp lvl 6 hecarim 1400 hp and no hp items on him.

33 minutes into game and NO ONE on your team built a SINGLE defensive item against a champ that has 2/3rds of the kills on the enemy team??!? That tells me he was capitalizing on player decisions, both his and your own.. Meaning player skill (or lack of) not champ balance.. 33 minutes means your pretty well into late game (since riot removed mid game even) and so let's assume that your team fighting 5v5 at this point, ONE carry having 2/3rds of the kills means you only need to focus a single target and then the gold distribution and experience not only levels out but tips in your favor, 17-36 means a hec with only deadmans can be bursted (in theory) by the time he trades even or hopefully before if you position and coordinate properly (hopefully your panth is able to direct that fight and carry it), that results in the effective score becoming 17 - 7 (this is all assumption and theory by the way but hopefully it illustrates how you need to start thinking)..

not like you thats for sure XD what part about hec jumps in and instakills aoe don't you get?

But lets get back to reality your bot lane fed, hard, not being rude just there's no way around it, so your adc responsible for dps throughout a teamfight is going to be inneffective even if you do remove hec from the equation, zoe was less than impressive as well and lacked a decent gold/itemization needed to burst down hec and reset to burst on the other carries, and amumu... well amumu just had no idea what he was doing not to mention he went full ap which hasn't been viable since like ever (it used to work as a troll build but wasn't viable, newest patch removed it even functioning so it's less than not viable) so that means the roles of dps and burst AND dive and peel and tanking ALL fall onto panth, panth is pretty strong (if you want to cry he's OP I wouldn't argue) but without the snowball mechanics in the game that he was denied since hec was running rampant it's just not possible without being fed (how did he not shut down nasus!? makes me question his skill as well)..

So you have a hard feeding adc, a hard feeding supp (again no offense, we have all been there), a mid that's far behind, a jungle that I can only imagine was afk farming while drooling on his keyboard and jerking off to the idea of an ap amumu carrying kda (seriously how does the jungle have a cs lead on your adc?!), and a panth that either wasn't given a chance to lane properly (and I can only imagine was pretty tilted at the state of his team) or was having autistic seizures himself (and somehow is expected to carry an entire team without any sort of gold/experience advantage).. AND YOUR FOCUS IS CRYING ABOUT HEC?!? YOU SHOULD BE CRYING ABOUT YOUR TEAM... analytically hec was not in the very least the problem, he was likely just a decent player who capitalized on an entire team making mistakes..

nah hec was babysitting bot was all.

So then let's look at the stats, hec on average is an early game champion capitalizing on early movement speed (and enemies typical lack of movespeed to escape), meaning he IS SUPPOSED to snowball early but ONLY IF YOU LET HIM.. On average his damage is like 15k which is abysmal, his win rate is below 50%, he is in the FOURTH quarter percentile for jungler's (36 out of 42!?!?! and you think he's OP? That's literally the worst of the bottom tier...)

lel bringing in nonsense statistics isn't helping anyone O.o

Your not learning from your mistakes and getting better at the game because your too busy making excuses, now that excuse making and lack of responsibility and understanding has gotten to the point where you literally think over half the champs in the game are OP... I won't even go into you taking zil into lane to supp a luc against xayah and braum (I'm not one for counterpicks but come on..) NOW DO YOU SEE WHY YOUR ASSESSMENT OF OP CHAMPS CAN NOT BE TRUSTED LET ALONE UNDERSTOOD?!

tl dr, you havent seen the whole game the first kill he got from panth the second from me he practically instakilled me right off the bat.... doing about 60% damage which was 100% my hp :/ hecarim has always been op, hes a tank with extreme mobility and extreme damage, hes a tank assassin or something O.o aka broken.

nevertheless its not hard to play with a champion that is a tank and practically instakills with an aoe ability. what makes hecarim op is that he scales of ------>MOVEMENT SPEED <------- and maybe you should do some research and look things up before you run your fingers? [slayer-jinx-catface]

OxyrottenDec 31, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-31T10:34:13.719+0000)

????? he was lvl 6 i was lvl 5 he only had shoes and jungle item.... what better items?

Broooo if you don't understand the importance of level and item difference... Wow. No wonder you think they are all OP.

the first he killed was pantheon, a beefier champion if i may say.

Irrelevant other than to tell me he had more of a lead on you than originally indicated.

and just because i'm zilean doesn't mean every champion does that damage, its rare to be honest, ive only seen assassins do that damage.

Honestly that means nothing, not only from the aspect of "last game I did x" but also your judgement is so far off.

i can tell you why he's fed, he does too much damage early game, without penetration. whilst tanking alot as well. lvl 5 zilean 700 hp lvl 6 hecarim 1400 hp and no hp items on him.

Why would he possibly need penetration? Literally no one on your team built defensive items, at all...

not like you thats for sure XD what part about hec jumps in and instakills aoe don't you get?

Even if that is true you can still burst and reset or focus or trade. Are you not paying attention?

nah hec was babysitting bot was all.

Ummm ok? So what does that have to do with anything other than not explain why you and your adc both went 1/8?

lel bringing in nonsense statistics isn't helping anyone O.o

Nonsense statistics? This game is literally built on those statistics. Those statistics are how we are able to analyze and compare facts.

tl dr,

So much for getting better then eh?

you havent seen the whole game the first kill he got from panth the second from me he practically instakilled me right off the bat.... doing about 60% damage which was 100% my hp :/ hecarim has always been op, hes a tank with extreme mobility and extreme damage, hes a tank assassin or something O.o aka broken.

hec has never been considered OP other than original release... never... he is widely regarded as a good concept attempt but poor execution.

nevertheless its not hard to play with a champion that is a tank and practically instakills with an aoe ability. what makes hecarim op is that he scales of ------>MOVEMENT SPEED <-------

How does that make him OP? That severely limits his build options or hinders his synergy. That is part of the reason no one plays him, the other part is because he has never been any good.

and maybe you should do some research and look things up before you run your fingers? [slayer-jinx-catface]

Lol? I literally did provide you with plenty of research and you shrugged it off.... ohhh shit your trolling.

DAMN you got me good. 5/7 perfect. Would rage again. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Devilreaper XIIIDec 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Broooo if you don't understand the importance of level and item difference... Wow. No wonder you think they are all OP.

lol 1 level is not that significant...

Irrelevant other than to tell me he had more of a lead on you than originally indicated.

no factor is irrelevent.

Honestly that means nothing, not only from the aspect of "last game I did x" but also your judgement is so far off.

right.. barely any champ instakills, but when a tank instakills its ok?

Why would he possibly need penetration? Literally no one on your team built defensive items, at all...

yeah his kit privodes him with enough damage even IF anyone would build tanky.

Even if that is true you can still burst and reset or focus or trade. Are you not paying attention?

wtf are you talking about there isn't even time to react to it... its jump in 0,5 later you're dead... not everyone is asian .o.

Ummm ok? So what does that have to do with anything other than not explain why you and your adc both went 1/8?

lol hec just does too much damage, riot needs to make up their minds, and box champions so they are either tank or fighter, not both simultaneously.

Nonsense statistics? This game is literally built on those statistics. Those statistics are how we are able to analyze and compare facts.

third party sites build league of legends....? be carefull what you say there. these statistics are flawed and don't mean a thing.

So much for getting better then eh?

XD a little joke i read it anyways XD

hec has never been considered OP other than original release... never... he is widely regarded as a good concept attempt but poor execution.

you've been living under a rock? in a barn? he has been considered op since release and has always been thought of as op.... its just that hecarim has never been a popular champion much.... but popularity does not make op or underwhelming. even if 1 player played hecarim, OP = OP, nothing popularity can change.

How does that make him OP? That severely limits his build options or hinders his synergy. That is part of the reason no one plays him, the other part is because he has never been any good.

how does this hinders his build? his shoes alone give him extra damage.... almost every champ builds shoes.... it does not hinder his build at all.. its bonus -.- and other items give mov speed as well.....

Lol? I literally did provide you with plenty of research and you shrugged it off.... ohhh shit your trolling.

links? proof? i'm sorry but your words alone are not research.... if you wanna give me stats play several matches against hecarim or as hecarim ss the statistics in result screen and post them here. to proof or disprove my claims. because THESE are the true statistics, they definitely tell you more, not the nonsense from third party sites.

DAMN you got me good. 5/7 perfect. Would rage again. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

couldn't say ''mouth'' since we are typing O,O

OxyrottenDec 31, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-31T14:55:47.170+0000)

lol 1 level is not that significant...

It is significant when you are low level ie: pre 6 like you were.

no factor is irrelevent.

Who he killed first has no bearing on the fact that he was up in kda compared to you.

right.. barely any champ instakills, but when a tank instakills its ok?

Plenty of champs 1shot (considering combo rotations 1shot) You just got done complaining about most of them.

yeah his kit privodes him with enough damage even IF anyone would build tanky.

It doesn't though, his damage is item dependent and falls off hard..

wtf are you talking about there isn't even time to react to it... its jump in 0,5 later you're dead... not everyone is asian .o.

You don't need to be asian, stop making excuses for not learning to play better.

lol hec just does too much damage, riot needs to make up their minds, and box champions so they are either tank or fighter, not both simultaneously.

That makes no sense, what is wrong with multiclass? And hec is not a tank he is a diver class which is a subclass of a fighter. I have no idea where you are getting this tank idea from.

third party sites build league of legends....? be carefull what you say there. these statistics are flawed and don't mean a thing.

Ok you have got to be trolling now. Riot releases these statistics from their internal data mining, it is accessed through their own api....... How are they flawed and how do they not mean anything???

you've been living under a rock? in a barn? he has been considered op since release and has always been thought of as op.... its just that hecarim has never been a popular champion much.... but popularity does not make op or underwhelming. even if 1 player played hecarim, OP = OP, nothing popularity can change.

Champs are generally popular because of the fotm cycle and their relative strength in terms of game impact. I will say that is a generalization but come on man do you even play league at all?

how does this hinders his build? his shoes alone give him extra damage.... almost every champ builds shoes.... it does not hinder his build at all.. its bonus -.- and other items give mov speed as well.....

What other items does he build that give him movespeed? What do they provide for him? His standard build includes one single movespeed item (not counting boots), if people want to build him for movespeed and damage they have to build an assassin style that really only consists of 1 zeal item and ghostblade (and mobi's) but zero tank items.

links? proof? i'm sorry but your words alone are not research....

Come on man, use your head... http://champion.gg/champion/Hecarim/Jungle?

if you wanna give me stats play several matches against hecarim or as hecarim ss the statistics in result screen and post them here. to proof or disprove my claims. because THESE are the true statistics, they definitely tell you more, not the nonsense from third party sites.

No that would NOT be true statistics, stats from a few games I play would be skewed because of the low sample population and likelyhood of nonstandardization, you would be looking at outliers rather than a mean.

True statistics come from riot and are provided on these "3rd party sites" and they provide a much better population to derive actual statistics from, the link I provided gives the analysis from close to 90 thousand games.... Not the 8 games you have played with him.

Like I am about done, you have got to be trolling me, there's no way you can be this ignorant of the game after playing for 8+ years like you claim (although looking at your games I wonder, nashors on zil???? Your either a troll or I have no idea)

Devilreaper XIIIJan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It is significant when you are low level ie: pre 6 like you were.

lol i'm talking damage wise not kitwise.

Who he killed first has no bearing on the fact that he was up in kda compared to you.

actually it does..... as i said pantheon is beefy plus he can parry.

Plenty of champs 1shot (considering combo rotations 1shot) You just got done complaining about most of them.

most that one shot are assassins, since when is hecarim an assassin?

It doesn't though, his damage is item dependent and falls off hard..

please try not to apply too much riot logic^^ thank you. he keeps oneshotting whole game but his damage falls off .o. <------logic hey look that biker is going 50mph 1 hour later his speed falls off! he's going 50mph!

You don't need to be asian, stop making excuses for not learning to play better.

for that reaction time? YES YOU NEED BE! .-.

That makes no sense, what is wrong with multiclass? And hec is not a tank he is a diver class which is a subclass of a fighter. I have no idea where you are getting this tank idea from.

oh idk hecarim tanking tons of damage maybe? and riot themselves said that sub classes are for reference and up for debate ''NOTHING OFFICIAL'' and there is so much wrong with multiclasses..... an unkillable tank that oneshots maybe? like idk blitzcrank? hecarim? zac? sejuani? imagine you are playing final fantasy and you suddenly run into a boss mob that oneshots you yes not ''can'' oneshot you but actually just does, and can tank 9999999999 damage... thats the same concept. riot needs to start boxing champs cause balance is far gone in this game.

Ok you have got to be trolling now. Riot releases these statistics from their internal data mining, it is accessed through their own api....... How are they flawed and how do they not mean anything???

wtf are you talking about? riot got nothing to do with third party sites O.o where do you get this nonsense from? these stats you see mean nada, simply because too many factors that can't be removed or taken in account, all these stats tell you is popularity not the why not whether champs are viable or not. aka it means nothing... foremost this is a teamgame so these individual champion stats are actually team comp stats to begin with.... its flawed....

Champs are generally popular because of the fotm cycle and their relative strength in terms of game impact. I will say that is a generalization but come on man do you even play league at all?

lol? thats bs riven has been popular since release, so has lee sin, zed , talon, caitlynn, jinx, yasuo, fizz, orianna, yi, annie, akali, jhin, miss fortune etc. there really is no fotm..... just the commercialled one by riot in specific month....

What other items does he build that give him movespeed? What do they provide for him? His standard build includes one single movespeed item (not counting boots), if people want to build him for movespeed and damage they have to build an assassin style that really only consists of 1 zeal item and ghostblade (and mobi's) but zero tank items.

Come on man, use your head... http://champion.gg/champion/Hecarim/Jungle?

lol... people would be pretty dumb following builds from third party sites..... no wonder na doesn't have much impact at tournaments O.o too much reliant on third party sites XD

No that would NOT be true statistics, stats from a few games I play would be skewed because of the low sample population and likelyhood of nonstandardization, you would be looking at outliers rather than a mean.

True statistics come from riot and are provided on these "3rd party sites" and they provide a much better population to derive actual statistics from, the link I provided gives the analysis from close to 90 thousand games.... Not the 8 games you have played with him.

Like I am about done, you have got to be trolling me, there's no way you can be this ignorant of the game after playing for 8+ years like you claim (although looking at your games I wonder, nashors on zil???? Your either a troll or I have no idea)

actually your own statistics would be more accurate... since its 1 person YOU! a CONSISTENT FACTOR you follow... and not a couple hundred/thousand others with mood swings..... besides the stats on third party sites are raw averages that have not taken all factors in account or filtered out factors.... even an 8 year old can do the math -.- i'm not saying these stats are useless i'm just saying they are meaningless and flawed, if you want accurate statistics you gotta do alot more math XD how many drakes were killed by whom?, who took baron? who took herald? whats the team comps? k/d/r? builds? difference and average of all divisions? moods? etc etc. only things those third party sites take in account are lanes, k/d/r, playrate/pickrate/winrate, gold/cs/amount of matches and division. and every single third party site will give you different stats.....

OxyrottenJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T11:50:10.842+0000)

lol i'm talking damage wise not kitwise.

Exactly, leveling gives hecarim a powerspike at level 6.. seriously why are you arguing about this if you don't know anything about the champ? More importantly why are you arguing about this? This is literally the dumbest argument, hecarim has never been good. never.

actually it does..... as i said pantheon is beefy plus he can parry.

No it doesn't, he obviously wasn't hurting from his fight from panth, so we can assume he had no cd's blown, so his previous fight has zero bearing on you, aside from the fact that it gave hec gold and experience. KDA means nothing it is just an indicator of gold and experience gains, which are what matters... FFS man do you really play this game?

most that one shot are assassins, since when is hecarim an assassin?

HE'S NOT THAT'S LITERALLY MY POINT

please try not to apply too much riot logic^^ thank you. he keeps oneshotting whole game but his damage falls off .o. <------logic hey look that biker is going 50mph 1 hour later his speed falls off! he's going 50mph!

What in god's name are you even talking about? Riot logic? What?

He keeps doing that because he is getting fed, WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?! Jesus Christ use your brain paleeease His damage falls off hard, his statistics even show that beyond 20 minutes he becomes comparatively useless..

for that reaction time? YES YOU NEED BE! .-.

I think we found the problem, you just don't know how to play... Do you have lag issues?

oh idk hecarim tanking tons of damage maybe? and riot themselves said that sub classes are for reference and up for debate ''NOTHING OFFICIAL'' and there is so much wrong with multiclasses..... an unkillable tank that oneshots maybe? like idk blitzcrank? hecarim? zac? sejuani? imagine you are playing final fantasy and you suddenly run into a boss mob that oneshots you yes not ''can'' oneshot you but actually just does, and can tank 9999999999 damage... thats the same concept. riot needs to start boxing champs cause balance is far gone in this game.

Do you even understand the basics of the terms your using? Tank is a class, tanky is a reference to being able to withstand damage dealt, they do not mean the same thing... Being able to withstand damage DOES NOT make him a tank... Tank classes are defined by two main traits, having hard cc and abilities that mitigate damage for himself or others.

wtf are you talking about? riot got nothing to do with third party sites O.o where do you get this nonsense from?

champion.gg accesses it's information from riot's api

these stats you see mean nada, simply because too many factors that can't be removed or taken in account, all these stats tell you is popularity not the why not whether champs are viable or not. aka it means nothing...

what your saying doesn't make sense, the stats show you mean averages across a much larger sample population than you could ever count yourself.. they show you damage percentages, incoming damage rates, and those are exactly what we are talking about.... It shows you exactly why or why not by comparing hecarims statistical analysis to the mean averages of other junglers or champions in his class If you could read, it says very clearly that hecarim's damage output is on par with the average damage output of other junglers, it is nothing special... You are just facing fed champions in game and THAT increases their perceived damage because of itemization and experience leads...

foremost this is a teamgame so these individual champion stats are actually team comp stats to begin with.... its flawed....

W A T What does that even mean? Are you trying to communicate with words?

lol? thats bs riven has been popular since release, so has lee sin, zed , talon, caitlynn, jinx, yasuo, fizz, orianna, yi, annie, akali, jhin, miss fortune etc. there really is no fotm..... just the commercialled one by riot in specific month....

Ok you are definately lying about having played since beta then. Riot releases champions that fall into 1 of 3 categories for sales, 1 they are WAY overtuned, see zoe for an example, 2 they are overly cutesy or some other fanservice aesthetic, 3 they are an IP ripoff of some other gaming or pop culture icon.. Champions go through buff and nerf cycles (and skin releases) based on their popularity stemming from pick rate It was like season 3 when they created this, literally going through a rock paper scissors buff cycle of champions.

lol... people would be pretty dumb following builds from third party sites..... no wonder na doesn't have much impact at tournaments O.o too much reliant on third party sites XD

What in the world are you talking about? Who said anything about builds from 3rd party sites? I will agree that people rely on cookie cutter builds too much, but what does that have to do with anything?

actually your own statistics would be more accurate... since its 1 person YOU! a CONSISTENT FACTOR you follow... and not a couple hundred/thousand others with mood swings.....

Do you even know math?

besides the stats on third party sites are raw averages that have not taken all factors in account or filtered out factors.... even an 8 year old can do the math -.-

Huh? That is exactly why you take sample's from larger populations, for example 90k games as opposed to 8 personally, because averages flatten out to show the different percentiles

i'm not saying these stats are useless i'm just saying they are meaningless and flawed, if you want accurate statistics you gotta do alot more math XD

That's literally what they did for you, you do know what statistics are don't you?

how many drakes were killed by whom?, who took baron? who took herald? whats the team comps? k/d/r? builds? difference and average of all divisions? moods? etc etc. only things those third party sites take in account are lanes, k/d/r, playrate/pickrate/winrate, gold/cs/amount of matches and division.

THATS WHY YOU TAKE A SAMPLE FROM A LARGER POPULATION HENCE 90K GAMES SHOWS MORE THAN YOUR 8 GAMES HOLY SHIT ITS LITERALLY CALLED AN AVERAGE MEAN

and every single third party site will give you different stats.....

How old are you? Have you even ever taken a statistics class? The things you say mean nothing and literally make no sense. I don't think your trolling me anymore so like how do even?

Devilreaper XIIIJan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Exactly, leveling gives hecarim a powerspike at level 6.. seriously why are you arguing about this if you don't know anything about the champ? More importantly why are you arguing about this? This is literally the dumbest argument, hecarim has never been good. never.

if heca was never good there would be complaints about him being underwhelming.... but there are non, argument countered i'd say!

No it doesn't, he obviously wasn't hurting from his fight from panth, so we can assume he had no cd's blown, so his previous fight has zero bearing on you, aside from the fact that it gave hec gold and experience. KDA means nothing it is just an indicator of gold and experience gains, which are what matters... FFS man do you really play this game?

that exp couldve given him a level... i would say that its impactfull.... doesn' matter how you formulate it, whether you say kdr or exp by kill....

HE'S NOT THAT'S LITERALLY MY POINT

since when? you keep saying he's underwhelming, underwhelming champs don't get oppertunities to oneshot.

What in god's name are you even talking about? Riot logic? What?

He keeps doing that because he is getting fed, WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?! Jesus Christ use your brain paleeease His damage falls off hard, his statistics even show that beyond 20 minutes he becomes comparatively useless..

what statistics? third party site nonsense? never have i experienced a hecarim fall off damage wise..... are you sure you just don't confuse with players not building ad but tank mid to late? ofcourse there will be a gap in ad but doesn't mean heca doesn't do damage.

I think we found the problem, you just don't know how to play... Do you have lag issues?

lol no, but how do you react to oneshots? especially early game when you have nothing to defend with except through runes with stopwatch.....

Do you even understand the basics of the terms your using? Tank is a class, tanky is a reference to being able to withstand damage dealt, they do not mean the same thing... Being able to withstand damage DOES NOT make him a tank... Tank classes are defined by two main traits, having hard cc and abilities that mitigate damage for himself or others.

yes because every champion can mitigate damage and has cc so all champions like that are tanks by your logic. and forermost a tank ABSORBS damage, the cc is bonus.

champion.gg accesses it's information from riot's api

riots api was made to allow players to view raw data, to actually do math on it requires more than what these third party sites do, all they do is organize the data, but unprocessed data is still raw hence the data third parties provide cannot be seen as meaningfull, they make it appear like it matters.... nothing special about those third party sites, nor did riot specifically released the data they were willing to release for third party sites, but because riot allegedly noticed it could have a positive and or negative impact.

what your saying doesn't make sense, the stats show you mean averages across a much larger sample population than you could ever count yourself.. they show you damage percentages, incoming damage rates, and those are exactly what we are talking about.... It shows you exactly why or why not by comparing hecarims statistical analysis to the mean averages of other junglers or champions in his class If you could read, it says very clearly that hecarim's damage output is on par with the average damage output of other junglers, it is nothing special... You are just facing fed champions in game and THAT increases their perceived damage because of itemization and experience leads...

nonsense, more isnt better, smaller population makes more accurate statistics. not everyone doing damage is fed.....

W A T What does that even mean? Are you trying to communicate with words?

there are 10 champions in a game, they are factors, these individual stats are dependent on those other 9 as well, a factor that cannot be removed and doesn't appear to be taken in account.

Ok you are definately lying about having played since beta then. Riot releases champions that fall into 1 of 3 categories for sales, 1 they are WAY overtuned, see zoe for an example, 2 they are overly cutesy or some other fanservice aesthetic, 3 they are an IP ripoff of some other gaming or pop culture icon.. Champions go through buff and nerf cycles (and skin releases) based on their popularity stemming from pick rate It was like season 3 when they created this, literally going through a rock paper scissors buff cycle of champions.

champions weren't released overtuned untill after twisted fate released..... after that all champions were released overtuned, i don't even know why pbe still exists..... what you are talking about is just commercializing. riven never got nerfed only buffed XD

What in the world are you talking about? Who said anything about builds from 3rd party sites? I will agree that people rely on cookie cutter builds too much, but what does that have to do with anything?

Do you even know math?

math is that which we can know, did you know math?

Huh? That is exactly why you take sample's from larger populations, for example 90k games as opposed to 8 personally, because averages flatten out to show the different percentiles

more isn't better nor is bigger, the more you take the more factors you need to filter or take in account, less is easier to calculate and more accurate.

That's literally what they did for you, you do know what statistics are don't you?

those are just averages.....

THATS WHY YOU TAKE A SAMPLE FROM A LARGER POPULATION HENCE 90K GAMES SHOWS MORE THAN YOUR 8 GAMES HOLY SHIT ITS LITERALLY CALLED AN AVERAGE MEAN

take 1 and no average needed XD, more isn't better, it complicates things, and doesn't mean its more accurate, how many of these matches are serious? and how many are troll matches?

How old are you? Have you even ever taken a statistics class? The things you say mean nothing and literally make no sense. I don't think your trolling me anymore so like how do even?

you're sentences are hard to comprehent when they aren't correct, i'm not even english or american..... if they take the same raw data, they should have the same outcome.... no matter how you apply the math.

OxyrottenJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T19:59:51.879+0000)

if heca was never good there would be complaints about him being underwhelming.... but there are non, argument countered i'd say!

There were plenty of complaints about him being UP, but nobody plays him anymore because he sucks. How do we know no one plays him anymore? Statistics..

that exp couldve given him a level... i would say that its impactfull.... doesn' matter how you formulate it, whether you say kdr or exp by kill....

What are you even talking about? WHO he killed has no bearing on whether or not he got a kill, your talking in circles and not making any sense. Is this normal for you?

since when? you keep saying he's underwhelming, underwhelming champs don't get oppertunities to oneshot.

That's not even a logical statement, what does one shotting have to do with champ performance? I'll save you the time of coming up with some troll answer. It doesn't.

what statistics? third party site nonsense? never have i experienced a hecarim fall off damage wise..... are you sure you just don't confuse with players not building ad but tank mid to late? ofcourse there will be a gap in ad but doesn't mean heca doesn't do damage.

Your literally not making any sense. There is no way to respond to nonsensical speculation.

lol no, but how do you react to oneshots? especially early game when you have nothing to defend with except through runes with stopwatch.....

Anticipate, react, cc, skills, items, positioning, warding, I mean I could go on and on but this is so general there is no point in being specific. Have you tried learning to play?

yes because every champion can mitigate damage and has cc so all champions like that are tanks by your logic. and forermost a tank ABSORBS damage, the cc is bonus.

What are you even talking about? Where are you getting the idea that every champion has damage mitigation or hard cc? Do you even know what cc is? I am pretty sure your just making shit up now.

riots api was made to allow players to view raw data, to actually do math on it requires more than what these third party sites do, all they do is organize the data, but unprocessed data is still raw hence the data third parties provide cannot be seen as meaningfull, they make it appear like it matters.... nothing special about those third party sites, nor did riot specifically released the data they were willing to release for third party sites, but because riot allegedly noticed it could have a positive and or negative impact.

What your saying just doesn't make sense. If your not willing to accept statistical analysis then your too unintelligent to reason with, there is no point in continuing this conversation. Have fun in your fantasy world dictated by your personal opinions and limited experience.

nonsense, more isnt better, smaller population makes more accurate statistics. not everyone doing damage is fed.....

That's literally a lie. Smaller population size has greater potential for skewed results as outliers have a greater effect. You have never taken a math class have you? Nobody said everyone doing damage is fed... Stop creating delusions to explain your warped view on reality.

there are 10 champions in a game, they are factors, these individual stats are dependent on those other 9 as well, a factor that cannot be removed and doesn't appear to be taken in account.

You don't actually play this game do you? Your just making stuff up right? Champions stats do not get adjusted based on team comp. That has never been a thing. You have got to start living in reality or your going to have a miserable life.

champions weren't released overtuned untill after twisted fate released..... after that all champions were released overtuned, i don't even know why pbe still exists.....

Isn't that what I just said? Not all champs but for the most part yeah. Your arguing by agreeing with me now?

what you are talking about is just commercializing. riven never got nerfed only buffed XD

I literally posted an entire paragraph of riven nerfs, or does that not exist in your fantasy world?

math is that which we can know, did you know math?

I do, obviously a lot better than you, yet you seem insistent on disagreeing with math. And that makes no logical sense. How can you reason numbers with using math, and why are you trying to do that?

more isn't better nor is bigger, the more you take the more factors you need to filter or take in account, less is easier to calculate and more accurate.

And that's why we take a larger sample, so that outliers have less effect on the mean... Math. Science. Learn it.

those are just averages.....

What do you think averages are?

take 1 and no average needed XD, more isn't better, it complicates things, and doesn't mean its more accurate, how many of these matches are serious? and how many are troll matches?

Your joking right?

you're sentences are hard to comprehent when they aren't correct, i'm not even english or american..... if they take the same raw data, they should have the same outcome.... no matter how you apply the math.

I see the problem, you don't speak english. What language do you speak so that we can communicate without loss of translation?

You haven't actually looked at any of the data have you? Your just making things up to be argumentative and troll.. [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Devilreaper XIIIJan 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There were plenty of complaints about him being UP, but nobody plays him anymore because he sucks. How do we know no one plays him anymore? Statistics..

doesn't mean hecarim sucks..... you contradict yoursef [zombie-brand-facepalm]

What are you even talking about? WHO he killed has no bearing on whether or not he got a kill, your talking in circles and not making any sense. Is this normal for you?

you need to work on your reading comprehention.

That's not even a logical statement, what does one shotting have to do with champ performance? I'll save you the time of coming up with some troll answer. It doesn't.

how is it not related to performance? thats like saying what has an long shot goal with soccer has to do with performance [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Your literally not making any sense. There is no way to respond to nonsensical speculation.

same as there is none to third party stats nonsense.....

Anticipate, react, cc, skills, items, positioning, warding, I mean I could go on and on but this is so general there is no point in being specific. Have you tried learning to play?

way to state the obvious, its all situational..... and just at reaction time is where you would cap. obviously but you haven't.....

What are you even talking about? Where are you getting the idea that every champion has damage mitigation or hard cc? Do you even know what cc is? I am pretty sure your just making shit up now.

every champion can take exhaust which lowers ad.... and i never said every champ has hard cc.... your reading comprehention needs working on.

What your saying just doesn't make sense. If your not willing to accept statistical analysis then your too unintelligent to reason with, there is no point in continuing this conversation. Have fun in your fantasy world dictated by your personal opinions and limited experience.

why would i want to accept raw statistics? you are too unintelligent to even acknowledge these stats are just simple raw averages. not only that, but i quoted riots own words -.-https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/riot-games/announcements/dev-blog-riot-api

That's literally a lie. Smaller population size has greater potential for skewed results as outliers have a greater effect. You have never taken a math class have you? Nobody said everyone doing damage is fed... Stop creating delusions to explain your warped view on reality.

the more you add the more you need to process, more math, more problems, more factors, more complications. the best mode to get individual statistics on champions would be showdown, not a 5vs5 rift game to begin with. non of these rift matches are consistent. the best way to gather the most accurate statistics is to make an averages per player and than comparing every player average. not taking every match add all wins and divide them through X number to get an average.... <-------THATS SKEWED!

You don't actually play this game do you? Your just making stuff up right? Champions stats do not get adjusted based on team comp. That has never been a thing. You have got to start living in reality or your going to have a miserable life.

again work on your reading comprehension; I LITTERALLY STATED THAT THEY DO NOT BASE THE STATS ON TEAM COMP! however they should..... is my point. and ''adjusted'' is an even more inacurrate word, i mention TAKEN IN ACCOUNT, you do not adjust stats, you simple add the math or it will be flawed like the statistics on those third party sites. the only ones that can adjust statistics are riot themselves. and learn to speak english please or american.

Isn't that what I just said? Not all champs but for the most part yeah. Your arguing by agreeing with me now?

no you were talking about fotm nonsense.

I literally posted an entire paragraph of riven nerfs, or does that not exist in your fantasy world?

in case you hadn't noticed, riot often makes it appear to nerf/buff champions. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xwOObpq2-live-gameplay-qa-issue-1-feat-feralpony-smashgizmo?show=flat read the ''Have you ever done (or considered) performing small balance changes purely to affect player perception? For instance, giving a champion a small numbers buff to make players try them out, only to realise they were probably in a good place anyway.'' section. i'm pretty sure riot does this on purpose as well, they also have been experimenting with psychology.

I do, obviously a lot better than you, yet you seem insistent on disagreeing with math. And that makes no logical sense. How can you reason numbers with using math, and why are you trying to do that?

math is relative, its nothing but a tool, if i say 10 + 10 = 2 or 10 + 10 = two tens than thats the truth and theres nothing you can do to change that, the concept of 1 + 1 is still there. the two tens can be added next to eachother which still results in TWO tens, they can be chalked on top of eachother which can be depicted as one 10 or 10 or you can add them in numbers and get 20. math is so easy but teachers won't accept it for example, 1 + 1 = 1 + 1, or 1 + 1 = 10 - 8, or 1 + 1 = 1 all the previous is correct, we all know the solution to the equation right? its 2, but if you chalk a 1 on top of a 1 you don't get 2, in order to get an answer you need to solve the formula but also understand what it is one talks about. math = calculator. we use math to get solutions and possible asnwers, so math is that which we can know.

And that's why we take a larger sample, so that outliers have less effect on the mean... Math. Science. Learn it.

complete bs..... larger sample size means more factors means less accuracy, i think the numbers the government provides us are proof of that [sg-miss-fortune] its best to take smaller sample sizes (yes in plural) and compare them to eachother resulting in a large sample size. that way you can focus on individual step by step and filter or take in account all kinds of factors, (making an average) if one team takes 3 infernal drakes and snowball into a nightmare this definitely impacts the outcome -.- especially if this happens often. or take those individual factors and make an average out of these, take those results in the general in account, (makes for less accuracy than the other method, but still more accurate than it is now)

What do you think averages are?

numbers! [slayer-jinx-wink]

Your joking right?

[sg-kiko]

I see the problem, you don't speak english. What language do you speak so that we can communicate without loss of translation?

You haven't actually looked at any of the data have you? Your just making things up to be argumentative and troll.. [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm]

your reading comprehension needs work [slayer-jinx-unamused]

OxyrottenJan 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-02T11:38:59.826+0000)

doesn't mean hecarim sucks..... you contradict yoursef [zombie-brand-facepalm]

you need to work on your reading comprehention.

how is it not related to performance? thats like saying what has an long shot goal with soccer has to do with performance [zombie-brand-mindblown]

same as there is none to third party stats nonsense.....

way to state the obvious, its all situational..... and just at reaction time is where you would cap. obviously but you haven't.....

every champion can take exhaust which lowers ad.... and i never said every champ has hard cc.... your reading comprehention needs working on.

why would i want to accept raw statistics? you are too unintelligent to even acknowledge these stats are just simple raw averages. not only that, but i quoted riots own words -.-https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/riot-games/announcements/dev-blog-riot-api

the more you add the more you need to process, more math, more problems, more factors, more complications. the best mode to get individual statistics on champions would be showdown, not a 5vs5 rift game to begin with. non of these rift matches are consistent. the best way to gather the most accurate statistics is to make an averages per player and than comparing every player average. not taking every match add all wins and divide them through X number to get an average.... <-------THATS SKEWED!

again work on your reading comprehension; I LITTERALLY STATED THAT THEY DO NOT BASE THE STATS ON TEAM COMP! however they should..... is my point. and ''adjusted'' is an even more inacurrate word, i mention TAKEN IN ACCOUNT, you do not adjust stats, you simple add the math or it will be flawed like the statistics on those third party sites. the only ones that can adjust statistics are riot themselves. and learn to speak english please or american.

no you were talking about fotm nonsense.

in case you hadn't noticed, riot often makes it appear to nerf/buff champions. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xwOObpq2-live-gameplay-qa-issue-1-feat-feralpony-smashgizmo?show=flat read the ''Have you ever done (or considered) performing small balance changes purely to affect player perception? For instance, giving a champion a small numbers buff to make players try them out, only to realise they were probably in a good place anyway.'' section. i'm pretty sure riot does this on purpose as well, they also have been experimenting with psychology.

math is relative, its nothing but a tool, if i say 10 + 10 = 2 or 10 + 10 = two tens than thats the truth and theres nothing you can do to change that, the concept of 1 + 1 is still there. the two tens can be added next to eachother which still results in TWO tens, they can be chalked on top of eachother which can be depicted as one 10 or 10 or you can add them in numbers and get 20. math is so easy but teachers won't accept it for example, 1 + 1 = 1 + 1, or 1 + 1 = 10 - 8, or 1 + 1 = 1 all the previous is correct, we all know the solution to the equation right? its 2, but if you chalk a 1 on top of a 1 you don't get 2, in order to get an answer you need to solve the formula but also understand what it is one talks about. math = calculator. we use math to get solutions and possible asnwers, so math is that which we can know.

complete bs..... larger sample size means more factors means less accuracy, i think the numbers the government provides us are proof of that [sg-miss-fortune] its best to take smaller sample sizes (yes in plural) and compare them to eachother resulting in a large sample size. that way you can focus on individual step by step and filter or take in account all kinds of factors, (making an average) if one team takes 3 infernal drakes and snowball into a nightmare this definitely impacts the outcome -.- especially if this happens often. or take those individual factors and make an average out of these, take those results in the general in account, (makes for less accuracy than the other method, but still more accurate than it is now)

numbers! [slayer-jinx-wink]

[sg-kiko]

your reading comprehension needs work [slayer-jinx-unamused]

I'm sorry man, I'm done. Your just not worth talking to. You live in a fantasy world where your delusions somehow change science and fact, and that just can't be reasoned with logically. Your understanding of math and english is elementary at best. Good luck in life, your REALLY going to need it.

OxyrottenDec 29, 20171 votes

is supposed to be a tank, but does massive damage, whilst still tanking a fair amount.

they recently reworked galio, he is no longer a tank but now has more of an ap bruiser, how does that make him OP? his main source of damage is EASILY avoidable, as is dash, do you build defensive items??

if he doesn't instakill you with crit he does so with barrels -.- oh and hes tanky..... and his ult has too far reach.

his barrels have a decently high skill requirement, and can be dodged and avoided and timed (shit it's free gold), going full crit isn't that viable so how does that make him any different from any other bruiser? yeah his ult is global but really just used to pick up assists, if you see his ult.. DONT FIGHT ON IT or DISENGAGE.. You really played this game since alpha??

oh idk.... hes a tank that bursts you down easy maybe?

his barrels only crit if you stand on them for the full duration... why are you standing on them? they are on a delay and easily dodged, his ult has to be far reaching to be effective as displacement, just don't stack and he will be forced to use it on a single person making it rather lackluster..

are you nuts or something? he needs nerfs for sure..... op as fk is also viable in jungle -.-

I'm not sure I understand you.. he is ONLY viable in the jungle.. and no not that great at ganking, has no hard cc, decent damage but damage DOES NOT make someone OP..

are we playing the same game???? you see him coming you know you're dead.....extreme tanky with extreme burst damage....with extreme mobility.

his damage only comes if you sacrifice tankyness in his build... same can sort of be said of his mobility.. No I don't think we are playing the same game at all, he has not been that good since he came out..

high burst damage medium tanky gains free tenacity and high sustain.....

what's your point? and ire hasn't been that good for awhile now..

seen him after nerfs, nothing changed.... still jumps in oneshots and walks out whilst tanking.

hardly one shots and definately not since indirect nerfs from item changes

just jump in stun and burst to death in 1,5 seconds rinse and repeat.

his stun has a huge windup that makes it easily avoidable, his only real strength is his tankiness that allows his dps to take effect, learn to bait and outplay him..

very hard to get killed with kassa doesnt suffer minion block since hes perma ghost and he takes 15% less magic damage, and gains a shield that blocks magic damage for 1,5 seconds and can interrupt channels and can restore mana with his own kit and can blink.... just add magic block from runes to that and you have anti magic champion....

very good, I'm glad you were able to do some analysis on his mechanics and design, this is a step forward! he is an anti-mage! he also has a bad laning phase and can be countered in lane, don't let him roam and he won't get fed, he doesn't get fed and he's pretty weak without adding much to team play..

almost all assassins are op, as i said only zhonya counters assassins.... high burst she still dashes away.

the problem with assassins being OP is NOT champion balance or design, it is gameplay mechanics that riot has thrown in to favor snowballing and early game.. your point is invalid.

kat got nerfs and reworks making her a lot weaker than she used to be, yes high burst and mobitility dashes are apart of her design, nothing wrong with that.

was talking darkin kayn.... tanky and high burst damage altogether and he gains almost 100% health back as well.

i fail to see your point

just too much damage again whilst being tanky.

your main complaint seems to be damage output, but in most of these cases the damage only can be applied if you play into their hands..

are we playing the same game?? she still oneshots....

I can't believe you have to be told this still.. there is NOTHING WRONG with oneshotting, that's part of her design... she is a burst mage, and a squishy as all get out one.. if she doesn't land her chains then she will not combo on you, if she does combo without landing chains then just turn on her and kill her or chase her off..

i honestly don't think we are playing the same game :/ or na just bad overall???

lee is a bit stronger now, but still not that great, he got nerfed too hard and has to build too much damage to make use of his kit properly, dodge his skillshot and he can't do much to you.. you do know how to sidestep ya? just click to the side like your strafing from the direction that he is coming from.. congrats you can now beat lee..

uhm again are we playing the same game??? seen plenty of lulu's with adc build own like crazy.... she is not adc dependent at all her kit has everything..... heck seen her top, jungle, mid and adc.

if you see that then kill her, they are either bads or one tricks who refuse to teamplay.. I don't understand how you don't get this..

ult spam, aoe slow, empowered basic attack, shield, snare.....

what's your point? her empowered attack requires her to advance and remain in a range that makes her vulnerable, her snare can be dodged and baited (it's her only source of hard cc and once she uses it she can easily be killed), ult is easily dodged

especially op in low elos... still outsustains any damage done, and melts anyone whilst being untargetable.

AHHH I see the problem now.. You can't base your judgements on champs off of how they work in low elo, ANY pubstomp champ is gonna be strong in low elo, that's because low elo does not know enough about the game and can be abused, that is the entire reason that smurfs exist.. Yi is retardedly easy to counter and only has a single playstyle = run at you and auto attack (think about that for awhile)

Q W R = death, and since riot reworked morg she also has her sustain back -.- shes boring to play. she even got a cdr on her W .o. and a shield that blocks all abilities.... but not op or anything i personally ban her every match.

morg can not kill someone in a single combo (maybe if she's full ap and fed), her snare has stupid slow missile speed and can be dodged, her ult has too long of a windup (needs to be buffed imo) and can be avoided, come on man..

just stack.... 5 seconds slowdown 95% and halves atk speed and lowers armor by 35%.... another case of high burst tank.

so keep him from stacking and he is useless... you really need to start thinking about the mechanics, he's not even a tank.. and his slow is necessary because he has no escapes and no ranged attacks, stupidly easy to counter.. are you giving this any thought?

1 spear + cougar bash = death, relatively easy to play, can keep safe distance has a sustain a dash and can only be countered by zhonya.

her spears can be dodged negating her combo, and she isn't as tanky as she needs to be in order to make full use of her ultimate

lol? easy 1vs5 is extreme tanky and does extreme damage.....

outshined in practically every way by other jg'ers, he's not that strong and hardly played, his "extreme" damage is the same as pretty much any one else..

ive seen olaf and cried.... extreme tanky simply didnt die and easily 1vs5 with high burst damage oneshots whilst desroying tower all simultaneously...

You seem to be upset about champs being strong when they are fed.. SO DON"T LET THEM GET FED olaf can not 1v5 unless he is extremely fed... he doesn't have burst damage he has dps (you realize the difference right?) he does not oneshot I don't even know where your getting that from.

maybe in na server.... hes extreme tanky, can shield twice and heal himself and others, and still does damage, knocks up and charms as well.

what's rakan's pickrate? you hardly ever see him because other supports are wayyyy better than him.. if he's not with xayah why would anyone play him?

extreme tank extreme damage and has mobility.

his mobility isn't that great, he has a dash that needs to hit to proc the second dash aside from that his movespeed isn't the greatest so you can see him coming from a mile away, he's not a tank he's just got some nice damage, he's good but not great.

oneshots anyone be it squishy or tank from a bush, he definitely needs a nerf and asap.

think about this, his mechanics revolve around bush play, so maybe if you see him on the other team you should adjust your playstyle? Don't you think maybe that's what was intended in his design? and yes he oneshot's that alone DOES NOT make him OP.. He is strong and probably could use some adjustment

she has never been nerfed since release.... heck riot recently even buffed her triple dash....

nerfed broken wings, nerfed on hit proc's, nerfed disruption, nerfed mobility and wall jump, nerfed exiles cd, nerfed movespeed, nerfed missile speed, nerfed regen (s4? shit that was like nerfed in half even from like 5 to 2.5), nerfed ad, nerfed broken wings per level and scaling, nerfed shield duration, nerfed base regen, nerfed regen per level, nerfed exiles cd, nerfed movespeed, nerfed base regen, nerfed regen per level, nerfed ki's dmg,

^^a list of riven nerfs since release^^

she has never been nerfed since release....

You were saying? She used to be OP but because of meta shift lost that status, hence the reason for the buff.. do you think riot makes buffs/nerfs just because they feel like it?

OxyrottenDec 29, 20171 votes

in euw server? YES! double armor/mr? high damage, cannot be slowed but can slow and EVEN stun you?

don't even know what to say if you think sej is strong

extreme tanky, he still does damage and gives defense benefits :/

what's your point? that doesn't make him OP

stacks dragons jumps in 1vs5 and pentakills....

pretty strong and could use some nerfs, but like I said, she lacks abusable skills and mechanics, kind of a one trick kit that gets played around in high elo

just run around is all... the high damage from the cloud is insane, hes extremely tanky as well, and has quite the mobility, just so boring to play as well.

...his design is stupid simple, and his damage comes from a bright cloud that even to noobs screams "dont stand in me", ever hear that old rpg joke about you might get healed if you didn't stand in the fire? has no ranged attacks and easily shutdown in lane..

a tank with high sustain and high damage.....

his damage isn't that high and his tankyness needs a buff imo, his sustain is part of his design so that he can stand on melee's... are you thinking about design at all?

still oneshots you, or finishes you after stunning you from far away -.-

completely avoidable stun.. and she needs to land full combo to oneshot.. and again she is a ap mage they are SUPPOSED to one shot, that in no way makes them OP

nonsense.... still does damage, still tanks, still eats....nothing changed.

everything changed, his q and his shield got nerfed hard. his slow is dodgeable and without that he is forced to disengage or use his shield to sustain himself in a trade..

only way to counter him is through zhonya, still oneshots still leaps over walls, heck i played talon once in aram, i asked for jest if he were ad, they told me to play him as tank, so i did, no one complained XD and i still TOOK KILLS and i was full tank....

I fail to see your point, if you don't understand that aram's has a completely different balance (or lack of) then well.. yeah lol, it's like saying last game I went 10/0.. ok that doesn't mean anything..

he is an assassin and the meta favors assassins and snowball mechanics, one shotting is NOT OP he is an anti-mage assassin.. his leap does need a nerf but it's not what makes him strong..

OxyrottenDec 30, 20171 votes

^^that took about 10 minutes to figure out, yet YOU were IN GAME as it was HAPPENING and couldn't figure things out?

I apologize if I come off as rude, I'm not sure how else to get you to start thinking about things properly.

Devilreaper XIIIDec 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

^^that took about 10 minutes to figure out, yet YOU were IN GAME as it was HAPPENING and couldn't figure things out?

I apologize if I come off as rude, I'm not sure how else to get you to start thinking about things properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF54qS_EJBM lol how many vids you want?? this puts the emphasis on hecarim being op. 1 offensive item and the rest tank items and yet he instakills.... reasses please.....

it took me one match to find out about this..... and you still haven't figured it out XD

OxyrottenDec 31, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-12-31T10:35:07.706+0000)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF54qS_EJBM lol how many vids you want?? this puts the emphasis on hecarim being op. 1 offensive item and the rest tank items and yet he instakills.... reasses please.....

it took me one match to find out about this..... and you still haven't figured it out XD

Are you trolliing?!

First clip he had like 10 kills and was 3 levels higher than the entire other team, plus completed items NONE of which were defensive...

You have got to be trolling.. Right? Please tell me this is a joke and I am just retarded for believing your serious.

PS: You know why people make those montages right?

Devilreaper XIIIDec 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Are you trolliing?!

First clip he had like 10 kills and was 3 levels higher than the entire other team, plus completed items NONE of which were defensive...

You have got to be trolling.. Right? Please tell me this is a joke and I am just retarded for believing your serious.

PS: You know why people make those montages right?

entertainment? money? boasting? everyone has got their reason, but it doesn't mean its false unless its all optical illusions?

r u kidding me? most of what i saw was health and armor.... and 1 jungle item and shoes. 1 clip out of many means nothing, it just puts MORE emphasis on the fact hecarim is just as viable as tank.....

OxyrottenDec 31, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-31T14:58:26.169+0000)

entertainment? money? boasting? everyone has got their reason, but it doesn't mean its false unless its all optical illusions?

They are clickbait, they make catchy titles in all caps about 1shots or troll builds for monetized views..

They take clips from games that they carry hard in (not the rest that they don't) and make it look impressive (since often times they are smurfing)

THIS is picking the best bits out of probably a day or two of farming games for video content. Talk about statistical analysis lmao.

r u kidding me? most of what i saw was health and armor.... and 1 jungle item and shoes. 1 clip out of many means nothing, it just puts MORE emphasis on the fact hecarim is just as viable as tank.....

I only watched the first clip or two, hec had zero armor items and his health items were offensive items... You do know the difference right? (sad I have to ask this).

Devilreaper XIIIJan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They are clickbait, they make catchy titles in all caps about 1shots or troll builds for monetized views..

They take clips from games that they carry hard in (not the rest that they don't) and make it look impressive (since often times they are smurfing)

THIS is picking the best bits out of probably a day or two of farming games for video content. Talk about statistical analysis lmao.

not every video is clickbait.....

I only watched the first clip or two, hec had zero armor items and his health items were offensive items... You do know the difference right? (sad I have to ask this).

lol there are those with full tank builds that do the same damage, you do realize what that means right? and the only offensive item that should be on hecarim should be triforce, and triforce is an allround item. offensive and defensive, heca doesn't need offensive items.

OxyrottenJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRQx1M3G,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T11:06:29.038+0000)

not every video is clickbait.....

I didn't say it was.

lol there are those with full tank builds that do the same damage, you do realize what that means right? and the only offensive item that should be on hecarim should be triforce, and triforce is an allround item. offensive and defensive, heca doesn't need offensive items.

Tri is an offensive item lol it does nothing for resistances.

If you build hec for damage he needs offensive items, lmao why are we even discussing this?? Hec get's damage from either offensive items or from movespeed which only comes on offensive items...