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Is support encouragement a bad thing?

NEStalgicGames··2 votes·715 views

Riot has been pushing players to play support alot lately with the addition of "auto-fill" and the increased free rotation. Honestly I'm getting dealt support more often than I'd like and its one of my best roles, I enjoy playing support but when I'm in the mood to, so being forced to go support when I wanted mid/top just makes me want to play it even less next time, and now its almost to the point where I don't want to play it at all. Riot please listen to this, if you don't have alot of players going for a specific role, it might be because that role is either not fun, or dosn't fit the play-style of some players, I don't even want to play ADC anymore because you get people that don't play support or that troll pick something that dosn't work, so you are reducing que times by making the game less enjoyable for everyone, I think everyone would be more ok with an extra 3 minute que than a 30-45 minute game with a troll auto-locking urgot support. The reward for playing support has always been a lower que time and you forcing it down my throat is making me want to play the role less and less. Sincerely, -NEStalgicGames (support, mid, top)

37 Comments

SugarRayMoe3 votes

There is NO reason at all to play support. This role sux balls HARD.

Well, there's one. If you dont want to wait 10 minutes to play, then you play support. Since I'm not willing to wait such amount of time to play ANY game, it means that the only existing role for me is support. But it's a disgusting role.

I've been playing support-like roles during years in other games. This game is the only one that makes me puke when I play support/healer/whatever-support-like-role. I dont know even why am i playing this sh+t anymore, tbh.

Jyoeru1 votes

{quoted}

There is NO reason at all to play support. This role sux balls HARD.

Well, there's one. If you dont want to wait 10 minutes to play, then you play support. Since I'm not willing to wait such amount of time to play ANY game, it means that the only existing role for me is support. But it's a disgusting role.

I've been playing support-like roles during years in other games. This game is the only one that makes me puke when I play support/healer/whatever-support-like-role. I dont know even why am i playing this sh+t anymore, tbh.

I advise you try the non-traditional supports like Brand or Zyra, perhaps even Lux. Support only sucks when you're playing a codependent champ in a lane that isn't going well.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

Honestly I think it's just a matter of what kind of player you are. I've been a support main for a while now, and I love it. It's always rough when you get a losing lane, but I do enjoy playing the role, and no position is perfect all the time.

Krigjer1 votes

I've been playing support-like roles during years in other games. This game is the only one that makes me puke when I play support/healer/whatever-support-like-role. I dont know even why am i playing this sh+t anymore, tbh.

Meanwhile this is the only game where I actually excel at a support role- all other games I play high damage or threat tanks. Different strokes for different folks- just because you dislike it doesn't mean it's a failure.

Zelorxon3 votes

I'll tell you what, you can cook the most delicious soup in the entire universe, if you're gonna force it with your spoon into a kid's mouth he will grow to hate it, no matter how tasty it is.

NEStalgicGames1 votes

absolutely true

DemainaNyx3 votes

The biggest problem I see with non-support players is they don't seem to understand how important the role is.

I said this in another thread somewhere but I'll repeat. The support sets up the lane for the ADC. If the enemy support is even just autoing your ADC and you, as support, don't do anything to punish (even if that just means autoing them back), you're giving the enemy the lane. This is common knowledge in any other lane.

In mid, you try to get a hit with an ability that hopefully hits the enemy champ, but at the least hits the wave as well so it isn't completely wasted mana. And you do this while trying to CS.

As support, you can basically ignore the wave and focus on the enemies and getting damage onto them. Watch your minions, notice that one is getting low so the enemy ADC is going to go last hit it. That's the perfect time to go in for something cause they will either get CS and get hit, miss CS and get hit, get CS and dodge hit, miss CS and dodge hit. Very rarely is it the third option, so in most cases your side wins out.

Now, I completely agree that no one should be forced into a role they don't feel comfortable playing in ranked. I rarely play top so whenever I get it I try to play safe and not do anything overly aggressive cause I don't know the match up. Getting forced into it isn't fun though cause it puts my team at a disadvantage even before the game starts.

People not wanting to play a role cause it's boring isn't a good reason for not playing it, but people not wanting to a play a role cause they don't want to put their team at a disadvantage makes sense to me.

OurLestrade2 votes

They're encouraging it the wrong way, I'll say that.

NEStalgicGames1 votes

yeah, they should have reworked support instead of assasins

Beldair1 votes

They actually do have a Support Update in the works I believe...but it will be a while because I think they are doing Divers next.

MatthewRT21 votes

according to information given out last year less than 20% of the people playing either draft or ranked have support as on of the selected roles, that means if this was an option alot of people would pick to not be autofilled so que times would sky rocket until someone within the mmr levels came along and had support ques up as either primary or secondary, all this would accomplish is ensuring anyone who had a secondary support would almost always get that role or no one would have it and que times would be hours

NEStalgicGames1 votes

thats true, but with the new que type there isn't any discussion, you just take the role riot gives you instead of talking to your team about it and letting that lvl 7 yasuo main mid instead of having him trolling the adc, steal CS, and feed, because he didn't get his way

MatthewRT21 votes

if you can't play every role atleast to the point of not feeding you still have much to learn, to play support just dont take cs unless you are procing relic shield and keep the adc alive

NEStalgicGames1 votes

I agree, but sadly, people que up for ranked when they shouldn't and since we don't have team builder there is no way to gaurentee a role, and some people troll when they don't get their role, this isn't about the honorable people in the community that play well, its a problem because some people are 5 year olds that cry and scream when they don't get theur way. There's even a post on the same board a ways up of someone who is litterally refusing to auto-fill

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=soEJhNrq,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-23T21:33:36.162+0000)

I understand you'd like to shorten queue times, but I know I as well as many others would prefer a longer queue in return for teammates getting one of their better roles.

I have two rune pages. If I'm not set up to ADC or Support, then my team is at an inherent disadvantage because I might only have AP pages ready.

I want teammates in one of their preferred roles (I'd actually like to see a single role selection, but I know it won't happen) so that we have a good chance of winning.

Quality over quantity, my friends. No game is fun when in champ select you already have people complaining about being forced into an off-role and that they'll "try not to feed."

So, yeah. If you force me to fill something I didn't queue for, I'm not doing it. Whether that mean we duo top or jungle, or I pull the trusty Singed Support, I'm not doing it. Sorry, not sorry. I want quality games, not a ton of shitty ones.

there are people like this everywhere :/

Dynamiku Entry2 votes

You didn't copy and paste the 23 upvotes he has.

NEStalgicGames1 votes

I didn't even know I could do that xD

Jyoeru1 votes

{quoted}

I agree, but sadly, people que up for ranked when they shouldn't

Who shouldn't queue up for ranked? When did ranked become a thing for only some people?

NEStalgicGames1 votes

no, anyone can play ranked, but you SHOULD be able to play at least two characters in EVERY role to a point that you wont feed before you que for it, anyone that ONLY plays one role or one champ shouldn't play ranked

Jyoeru1 votes

{quoted}

no, anyone can play ranked, but you SHOULD be able to play at least two characters in EVERY role to a point that you wont feed before you que for it, anyone that ONLY plays one role or one champ shouldn't play ranked

Why's that? If that was really how they intended it to be, then they should force people to play an assigned role in blind pick while they're leveling up. Given the limitations to rune pages and the diversity between 10 champs in 5 roles, people'd be screwed if they were looking to counterpick when they only had (in your example) two choices for that lane.

More than that, the average person isn't going to be able to be very effective at every role and every champ they might cast into that role. So you'd rather have people so spread thin on what they can excel at so that they can fill every role? Seems to me like that makes your wait time for a decent game tentatively 40 more minutes for every bad one you face where people are forced into other roles they just absolutely hate or are not as good at.

NEStalgicGames1 votes

they DO force you to play different roles as you level up, but its done through the free champ rotation, when you are learning you only have the champs in the free rotation for awhile and are forced to learn, and in blind, you kinda get stuck playing what you are given, I never said you MUST be god tier at every role, but you should have an understanding of all of them and be able to at least not feed before you go into ranked, if you don't, you won't get far and you'll only slow your team down, especially when riot shoves you in a role you don't know

Jyoeru1 votes

Not really, though. You could level up with just Lux, for example, which is what I did until I had enough IP to get Soraka, who I finished to 30 with. Sure, my fault for not learning the other roles, but I tried the other roles several times along the way and they didn't fit my interests. Last hitting minions and crawling through the jungle attacking camps and hoping you can land a gank is just immensely boring to me.

I personally prefer finding places to stick wards, watching the map to predict opportunity and warn of danger, and helping destroy bot lane by looking for engage opportunities or creating them, and counter-ganking.

While your final point is legitimate, it's that it can even be a point at all that is the concern. I have played support 90% of the time. I can hold a top or mid lane, and if I get those roles I will be generally okay. In that regard, I've held up to the system's standards. But if you stick me in jungle or ADC, I am useless largely because I don't have champs that fill those roles, I am the least-rehearsed in those roles, and I absolutely hate those roles.

So when I put supp/mid as my picks, those are the lanes I expect to get into, and since I main the #1 hated role of the game, I don't feel entitled at all. If anything, the fact that I main the most hated role in the game makes me among the least-entitled players. That's my view.

NEStalgicGames1 votes

thats nice, but if it was the other way and riot needed some junglers, and you happened to get placed there in a ranked game (especially a promo or something) you can't tell me you wouldn't be upset? Thats the point i'm geting at, I play support, i'm not bad at it, I can play ANY role without feeding, I just excel at mid and top, but on the occasion I go ADC i'd rather not have someone that is something along the lines of a 500 game yasuo main being forced to support me when he should be mid, thats why I like the old draft system better, sure you had pick order, but there was conversation, if there was a 500 game yas main, you'd look him up, then go, ok, you can mid, and everyone worked to find who goes best where, but no one wants to give up a lane they feel entitled to, so I feel the lane selection should either go away, or find a way to select players that should be in that lane. For example, I am a 150K mastery point karthus main, if that yasuo had more games and higher mastery he should be placed mid instead of me, not by random chance.

Erockandroll1 votes

Is encouraging support a bad thing?

well if people tell me I'm playing it wrong, I invite them to try the role themselves.

NEStalgicGames1 votes

not what i'm talking about

bad arcade kitty1 votes

it is simply made in a bad way

if they made it so your every 5th-10th game is a mandatory support game it could be probably much better

NEStalgicGames1 votes

I disagree, no one should be FORCED to play any role

bad arcade kitty1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree, no one should be FORCED to play any role

and why not?

Big Lincoln1 votes

because they'll either dodge or troll if they're forced to do a role they don't want

bad arcade kitty1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEyaNgbE,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T23:43:56.624+0000)

because they'll either dodge or troll if they're forced to do a role they don't want

they do it right now with auto fill (btw mostly because role queue spoiled people), if it was mandatory enforced by the system you dodging it would mean you are a support again the next time. nothing more, and those who troll are eventually banned

Big Lincoln1 votes

they'd either troll or try to trade, and if they switch then the system still doesn't work, lol.

just let the people who actually want to support play support. auto-fill is cancer.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEyaNgbE,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T23:49:30.163+0000)

they'd either troll or try to trade, and if they switch then the system still doesn't work, lol.

just let the people who actually want to support play support. auto-fill is cancer.

people will adapt right now they are spoiled rotten because they feel entitled to get 2 roles which they want it's not something which always existed and isn't something which was promised to exist always too trolls will get banned or will simply realize they are losing lp and stop trolling to avoid it, role trades from the support position are usually ignored and if not, it's not a problem at all, you are lucky then

Jyoeru1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEyaNgbE,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T23:56:12.926+0000)

people will adapt right now they are spoiled rotten because they feel entitled to get 2 roles which they want it's not something which always existed and isn't something which was promised to exist always too trolls will get banned or will simply realize they are losing lp and stop trolling to avoid it, role trades from the support position are usually ignored and if not, it's not a problem at all, you are lucky then

Nah. I agree with OP. I haven't been forced into another role yet, and I exclusively support, but people should get the lane they want and are good at when we're talking about ranked. I'm all for learning how to do other lanes and characters in blind, but in ranked, I want the most confident people on my team, and that means making sure they get the lane they want.

Like was said, an exclusive X laner will be fine waiting several minutes for their game. Just like I am fine only having to wait 30 secs on average for mine as a supp. But if I ever get forced into another lane when choosing supp, then I'll have to bow out if no trades. I simply am terrible as JG and ADC, and I'll not be keen on being forced into those roles with this system.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

{quoted}

Nah. I agree with OP. I haven't been forced into another role yet, and I exclusively support, but people should get the lane they want and are good at when we're talking about ranked. I'm all for learning how to do other lanes and characters in blind, but in ranked, I want the most confident people on my team, and that means making sure they get the lane they want.

Like was said, an exclusive X laner will be fine waiting several minutes for their game. Just like I am fine only having to wait 30 secs on average for mine as a supp. But if I ever get forced into another lane when choosing supp, then I'll have to bow out if no trades. I simply am terrible as JG and ADC, and I'll not be keen on being forced into those roles with this system.

you clearly are a new player

imo introducing the role queue was a big mistake because it's hard to maintain and people are spoiled with it way too easy

there is literally 0 oblige for anybody including riot to give you your lane

Jyoeru1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEyaNgbE,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T00:08:51.781+0000)

you clearly are a new player

imo introducing the role queue was a big mistake because it's hard to maintain and people are spoiled with it way too easy

there is literally 0 oblige for anybody including riot to give you your lane

Is that how you just refuted my point? By trying to assess how new of a player I am? Okay, cool.

In ranked, it makes way more sense that you get the lane you excel at. If you're trying to subtly make a point that you should only play ranked when you're 100% in every station with at least ten champs for each station for counterpicks, well, I disagree. Maybe in the high end ranked, but most people aren't there, won't ever get there, and this isn't about those high-end players.

Not sure how it's hard to maintain? If you mean keep everyone's queue times low, maybe. But if you don't want to wait long periods of time, then that should be incentive enough to learn other places you can fit in and get your times down. That seems fair enough of a system over forcing players into stations they are not ideal for playing.

You can disagree. That's fine. But most people playing probably will not.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

{quoted}

Is that how you just refuted my point? By trying to assess how new of a player I am? Okay, cool.

In ranked, it makes way more sense that you get the lane you excel at. If you're trying to subtly make a point that you should only play ranked when you're 100% in every station with at least ten champs for each station for counterpicks, well, I disagree. Maybe in the high end ranked, but most people aren't there, won't ever get there, and this isn't about those high-end players.

Not sure how it's hard to maintain? If you mean keep everyone's queue times low, maybe. But if you don't want to wait long periods of time, then that should be incentive enough to learn other places you can fit in and get your times down. That seems fair enough of a system over forcing players into stations they are not ideal for playing.

You can disagree. That's fine. But most people playing probably will not.

yes

you can't imagine that the roles can be not guaranteed while i can

you will eventually adapt to it too after you stop throwing your tantrums liek a spoiled child

Jyoeru1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEyaNgbE,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T00:16:19.079+0000)

yes

you can't imagine that the roles can be not guaranteed while i can

you will eventually adapt to it too after you stop throwing your tantrums liek a spoiled child

Damn, you're harsh and stupid. No part of my point indicates my experience with the game and facing situations where I didn't get the role I wanted. I disagree with those systems from experience.

And now you add tantrums into the mix? Man you're the lowest kind of troll. Let me guess, Riven main? lol. Piss off kid, you've no valid stance.

NEStalgicGames1 votes

because when you force people to do something they don't want to do you get alot of trolls and feeders, I'v had alot more trolls in my bot lanes lately because of it

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