Draven is out of hand, seriously.

AD champs only··13 votes·1,883 views

Tryndamere can't kill Draven. Both equally fed. That means something's terribly wrong with Death's dance.

43 Comments

Crimzyn8 votes

Sorry but Trynd is not a benchmark for determining if a champ is OP or not lol. Is Draven out of control or OP? Maybe, but using Trynd as a measuring stick is not accurate lol.

Rexxiee5 votes

Stop blaming DD for draven being broken.

He can go BT, he can go IE shiv, he can literally go anything and roll faces atm, hes legit overtuned.

Gelmous1 votes

well then how come he wasn't meta untill the DD changes ? he wasn't popular even after his small buff

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Because he was meta. Just not popular. He only sorta sucks in high ELO because it's easy for them to break his Q. Low ELO is too uncoordinated to do that.

Gelmous1 votes

no was he not he had a really low pick rate almost nobody played him at any elo before the DD buff

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Pick rate is pretty irrelevant. Sleeper OP champs exist. And I've always been instabursted post 30 by a Draven as anyone but a serious tank, if I didn't get the drop on him. He's almost nothing but damage.

CppL1 votes

{quoted}

Stop blaming DD for draven being broken.

He can go BT, he can go IE shiv, he can literally go anything and roll faces atm, hes legit overtuned.

Yes ,but DD made him even worse.

Dasdi964 votes

The thing is draven gets more gold from a kill than every other champ in the game due to his passive, sometimes up to 700 gold from a single kill. Never go 1 for 1 against draven.

Unreformed Shaco3 votes

It's not even just Draven, he is just the main offender.

Lifesteal in general needs to become a unique passive, so people can't just stack 30-40% with max attackspeed for 500 heals per second.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

You can't get 30% Lifesteal from any combination of complete items. Neither can you get 40%. And you can't get that much life steal and max attack speed. It's literately impossible. Nasus is the only one who could build only AS and still get above 30% life steal (BorK and passive), yet he cannot hit 2.5 AS. And, let's say you do. Guess what?

You're left with the shittiest AD total ever.

Because you'd be forced to build 5 item 3115s and a item 3153, because nothing else could make sure you stayed at 2.5 AS. You would also have no crit chance, because no Zeal item gives as much AS as Nashor's Tooth does, and Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver give none.

Don't just spew nonsense that anyone can disprove with basic research.

Unreformed Shaco3 votes

{quoted}

You can't get 30% Lifesteal from any combination of complete items. Neither can you get 40%. And you can't get that much life steal and max attack speed. It's literately impossible. Nasus is the only one who could build only AS and still get above 30% life steal (BorK and passive), yet he cannot hit 2.5 AS. And, let's say you do. Guess what?

You're left with the shittiest AD total ever.

Because you'd be forced to build 5 item 3115s and a item 3153, because nothing else could make sure you stayed at 2.5 AS. You would also have no crit chance, because no Zeal item gives as much AS as Nashor's Tooth does, and Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver give none.

Don't just spew nonsense that anyone can disprove with basic research.

Jinx with item 3031 item 3085 item 3006 item 3139 item 3046 item 3072

2.47 Attack speed. 80% crit. 30% Lifesteal not including Warlords or Elixir of Wrath (15%)

This doesn't even take into account the healing and attack speed provided by item 3504 , which nearly all supports buld now.

Checkity Check yourself, before you wreck yourself.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Not to debate technicalities, but 2.47 isn't max, 2.5 is. (Not sure if that's what it'd actually be, but I'll assume that it is, because I'm lazy).

And your AD will only be (99.43 base@18+80[BT]+70[IE]+65[MS]=215+100) 315 (before runes and masteries). That's not very high, and Jinx needs to be revved up. The AS from Ardent is uselessly minimal in this, because she's only .03 away from the cap, and 10 health per second (60/10s) when attacking is almost nothing in a fight.

Let's not forget that you've left yourself with no armor to survive being blown up by an AD assassin, fighter, or whatever fucking class that Yasuo, Fiora, and Irelia are. Or a Nasus, for that matter. Or maybe just a Cait, Twitch, or well-stacked Kindred that could kill you outside of your range (and let's not forget the title Champion of this post: Draven, who can absolutely blow you up easily). You have decent MR, enough to counteract the Mpen of an AP assassin (counting in runes, masteries, and items), but not really enough to survive Ahri, Akali, Annie, Syndra, etc. from blowing you up.

And let's not forget that CC exists. Sure, Scimitar will remove any on you once every 90s, but that means the enemy team just needs to land two bits of CC. Outside of Bronze 2, there's usually at least 5 abilities that can shut you down. Or someone could just use Exhaust on you...

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

Not to debate technicalities, but 2.47 isn't max, 2.5 is. (Not sure if that's what it'd actually be, but I'll assume that it is, because I'm lazy).

And your AD will only be (99.43 base@18+80[BT]+70[IE]+65[MS]=215+100) 315 (before runes and masteries). That's not very high, and Jinx needs to be revved up. The AS from Ardent is uselessly minimal in this, because she's only .03 away from the cap, and 10 health per second (60/10s) when attacking is almost nothing in a fight.

Let's not forget that you've left yourself with no armor to survive being blown up by an AD assassin, fighter, or whatever fucking class that Yasuo, Fiora, and Irelia are. Or a Nasus, for that matter. Or maybe just a Cait, Twitch, or well-stacked Kindred that could kill you outside of your range (and let's not forget the title Champion of this post: Draven, who can absolutely blow you up easily). You have decent MR, enough to counteract the Mpen of an AP assassin (counting in runes, masteries, and items), but not really enough to survive Ahri, Akali, Annie, Syndra, etc. from blowing you up.

And let's not forget that CC exists. Sure, Scimitar will remove any on you once every 90s, but that means the enemy team just needs to land two bits of CC. Outside of Bronze 2, there's usually at least 5 abilities that can shut you down. Or someone could just use Exhaust on you...

Seriously going to say 2.47 isn't 2.5?

If you don't believe me, go into practise tool and do it.

AD assassins in a team fight? Don't make me laugh. AD assassins are worthless right now.

You might not have the MR yourself, but instead you have a Janna sitting on your ass, shielding you for 3 billion while giving you 30 BF swords worth of damage.

The ADC/Support combo is way too strong right now, and it makes Assassins worthless.

The damage reduction from DD,PD and Tabi combined with a support is just way too powerful.

As for ADC killing another ADC that doesn't excuse it. "Nuclear weapons aren't a problem because you can just nuke the country with them"

I am not saying Jinx herself is an issue, but there are plenty of Marksmen with AS steroids who can get 2.00 Attack speed easily, whilst having high lifesteal and damage. They are supposed to deal high sustained damage but be very vulnerable to burst. Right now, they are not vulnerable to burst, and the blame is a mixture between OP support items and stupid damage stackable damage reduction.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eBXPTGdJ,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-10T01:48:26.691+0000)

Seriously going to say 2.47 isn't 2.5?

I was pointing out a technicality. I explicitly said that's what I was doing.

If you don't believe me, go into practise tool and do it.

Why would I have to go into practice tool to see that 2.47 is .03 less than 2.5?

AD assassins in a team fight? Don't make me laugh. AD assassins are worthless right now.

Maybe in pro play. But there they've figured out how to get past life steal pretty easily. It's called coordination. Here, in low ELO, where we all are, you're fucked if the enemy team has Talon or Zed. Or Rengar, If you're the ADC. If you aren't, you're fucked if they have Kha'Zix.

You might not have the MR yourself, but instead you have a Janna sitting on your ass, shielding you for 3 billion while giving you 30 BF swords worth of damage.

Janna shields for far less than that, even at full build. No combination of items lets her E even pass 1k. And it gives less than 100 AD.

The ADC/Support combo is way too strong right now, and it makes Assassins worthless.

See point #3

The damage reduction from DD,PD and Tabi combined with a support is just way too powerful.

Tabis aren't good on ADCs unless you're against a high-AD team, and it resists auto attacks as its passive.

PD only gives you defense against one champion.

And, for the last fucking time:

#DEATH'S DANCE DOES NOT GIVE DAMAGE REDUCTION. IT ONLY DELAYS IT

As for ADC killing another ADC that doesn't excuse it. "Nuclear weapons aren't a problem because you can just nuke the country with them"

I pointed out a host of champions that beat anyone with your build. Yasuo, Fiora, Irelia, any high-damage mage, any larger-range marksman, any assassin.

I am not saying Jinx herself is an issue, but there are plenty of Marksmen with AS steroids who can get 2.00 Attack speed easily, whilst having high lifesteal and damage.

Not really...Most viable builds get you 50-80% crit, 2.00-ish AS, 15-25% LS, and 300 AD. That's not enough to complain about.

They are supposed to deal high sustained damage but be very vulnerable to burst. Right now, they are not vulnerable to burst, and the blame is a mixture between OP support items and stupid damage stackable damage reduction.

They still are. Have an Akali run up against any ADC but Draven (who, we all know, is busted). Give the ADC Death's Dance. She will still deal enough damage to kill the ADC, or at least burn both sums and an ult. She may still be able to burst the ADC before the delayed damage kicks in. It's not hard. Just don't go up against a fed one. Hell, she can take down a Draven with any build you please, as long as she has a gold lead.

Apocalypsic3 votes

Draven is just too strong, items make it worse but they don't have anything to do with him, Cait, and twitch all being overturned currently.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

I'd say that Cait isn't overtuned. A bit strong, yes, but not overtuned.

unless you're a minion, then enjoy taking 1.3k damage from a headshot

Sumpp12 votes

[deleted]

Yaśuo Main2 votes

are you being serious or what, because i can't see this as for real.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

I don't think he can do 1.7k, but I have seen him crit for 1.2k. 1.7k is just absurd. Nobody can do that much in a single AA but Nasus.

(Alright, technically Veigar can with Nashor's Tooth, but shush).

Ninjas Flossing3 votes

thresh with enough souls like several hours of soul farming to be precise but a technicality is still a technicality

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Ah fuck. I forgot about Thresh.

But if we count him, we also need to count Sion/Chogath with item 3748, Fiora/Vayne (and anyone else with %health damage on an auto) against either of them, and... are we counting AAs versus minions, too? Because item 3087+item 3094 on Caitlyn on a critical E-based headshot against a minion can do metric asstons of damage. I've seen it pas 1.4k with just Shiv. So perhaps she can, if we allow minions. And it may be possible that a Zed mirror matchup could allow them to gain enough AD through their ults off of each other to pass 1.7k. Although I'm tired, so I may be wrong

But, realistically, nobody's doing 1.7k damage versus a champion on a single auto. Even Draven's not that broken.

Sumpp11 votes

[deleted]

Yaśuo Main1 votes
  1. why does and why would he have tld, and how'd he proc it because he'd have to full combo you before that

  2. u probably built 0 armor

  3. according to Death Recap, TOTALLY NOT UNRELIABLE

  4. I need more proof than just empty claims

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

I thought this was a throwing axe meme.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-26-2016/mUm1G2.gif?

rtbf2216514122 votes

Definitely nothing wrong with Draven's damage either. No way.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Darkdemon6531 votes

Please tell me how DD benefits Draven in a way lifesteal doesn't and benefits Draven in a way that doesn't apply to other RADs.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

Please tell me how DD benefits Draven in a way lifesteal doesn't and benefits Draven in a way that doesn't apply to other RADs.

Death's Dance damage mitigation is the problem. It allows you to just draintank.

Darkdemon6532 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eBXPTGdJ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-07-08T19:38:16.845+0000)

Death's Dance damage mitigation is the problem. It allows you to just draintank.

DD does not have damage mitigation.

Also, that didn't fulfill the task.

LethalTempo Jhin5 votes

Draven + item 3812 item 3047 item 3046 item 3031 item 3087 item 3139

Try killing this fucker.

Unreformed Shaco2 votes

{quoted}

Draven + item 3812 item 3047 item 3046 item 3031 item 3087 item 3139

Try killing this fucker.

Exactly, 30% of the damage disappears due to DD bleed being outhealed, 12% damage reduction from PD, 10% from tabis and can break CC on demand.

This doesn't even factor in the 3 billion shields and heals that are current.

Cereal4201 votes

and the RIDICULOUS amount of lifesteal

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Irrelevant. Death's Dance still doesn't mitigate damage. It delays it.

Sure, he's basically unkillable if your team doesn't have an Ahri and a Leona, but it still doesn't remove the damage.

No flash no life1 votes

{quoted}

Draven + item 3812 item 3047 item 3046 item 3031 item 3087 item 3139

Try killing this fucker.

Veigar with 2k ap farmed up might be able to with the press of 2 buttons. Also Chogath +item 3193 1v3 against draven team = instant 2k true dmg, maybe more if cho kills enough.

Draven+item 3812 item 3026 item 3046 item 3031 item 3094 item 3139

Now we're talking [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

DaNinad1 votes

Boohoo a tryndamere couldn't fight somebody. Also, if trynd and draven had equal kills, draven would still have the leg up.

Ninjas Flossing1 votes

woo another attack comment accomplishing nothing! go team useless!

BerylCrab1 votes

Thats the human race for ya, ever the useless bunch of assholes. GO PEOPLE!

Avarist1 votes

I tend to agree, and have thought that Draven was sleeper OP for a -long- time now, deaths dance just makes him accessible to less experienced draven players, bringing him into the spotlight more and making the "issue" more apparently.

Issue in quotes because it's entirely subjective if you think Draven is overpowered.

Still, I don't think he's the worst offender. Caitlyn is worse, and Twitch is right up there - In my opinion, feel free to disagree.

I think Dravens earlygame should be a lot worse than it is though purely because of how his cash-in works, I don't know why they would give a character with that sort of snowballing effect a strong earlygame, it seems somewhat counter intuitive to me from a design standpoint. It seems like something that should accelerate him to his power-spike, not just be a "Now your early damage is even more absurd!" situation.

AD champs only1 votes

Guys, i see that there are someone who doesnt agree.

I put Tryndamere because Tryndamere SHOULD win a 1v1 against every ADC (except Vayne). But i just couldnt deal any damage to Draven, he just healed and healed. It was a 1v1, so there were no shields, no Kinght Vow's and stuff. (My maxed W decreases 80 AD for every nearby enemy champion, guys, that are 2 B.F SWORDS !!!) He should deal no damage..

Also, Draven's always been that guy who dominates early but never falls off late, which is kinda, you know... Terrible.. If that was a melee champ, nobody wouldnt mind. But dealing that kind of damage from a distance is just .. idk. + he has a self peel and ms buff.

Oh, ye. There is our favourite melee champ Yasuo , but honestly i havent seen him in a long time in my games or being bitched about on the boards.. I think Yasuo with PD+DD + some support sh*t like Knight's Vow would be more overpowered.. (don't hate me yasuo mains, i was one of you back in the day lmfao)

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Draven's passive means that he's always more ahead than anyone else with his KDA and CS. You could be the exact same level, both have started with the same items, have the exact same masteries and runes, and the exact same number of kills, assists, and CS (and quality of CS), and as long as he has one kill he will always have more gold than you.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

If you wanted to be serious, you should've put Yasuo vs an ADC since he is supposed to counter that and see if Yasuo wins.

Also, Knight's Vow would make him lose too much damage potential just to survive for a few more seconds, his base stats is too low to benefit much from it. But that's if he's building it.

DD is meh on Yasuo too, BT is way better because it has a shield on it.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

The percent damage reduction on item 3812 item 3046

and the strong support itemsitem 3190 item 3109 item 3107 are creating adc that are a bit too difficult to kill come late game.

Draven stands out because his increased difficulty always allowed for a bit more power in his kit. The class wide benefits shine brightest on him.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Death's Dance still isn't damage reduction. It's damage delay. You still take the full damage from everything, it's just slowed down.

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