What do you think Tanks do?

Poop Jelly··3 votes·1,076 views

Tanks, tanky supports, tanky bruisers, tanks enthusiasts, what do you think the tanks do? what do you think they are intended to do and how do you use them?

The reason why I asked this question is because I've been seeing threads around here and saw many many threads raising voices asking some demands on tanks. I had my own opinion, but i want to gather opinions, so I'll keep this question as objective as possible.

28 Comments

Troy2426214 votes

A better question would be, "What do you classify as a tank?"

A TRUE tank would have extremely high defense that demands the enemy team's attention through the combined use of CC, utility and disruption to compromise the enemy team's fighting capability. Examples include Shen Rammus Nautilus.

A lot of bruisers are being mislabeled as tanks, such as Shyvana Elise LeeSin.

Sakura Mirage2 votes

Shyvana has been a tank since s3

50000000000000003 votes

With what disruption tool? Knockback from ultimate?

Sachabot2 votes

I count killing the entire backline of the enemy team single-handedly as a form of disruption.

50000000000000001 votes

So assassins are tanks? Shyvanna is a fighter, not a tank.

The Whamboozler1 votes

{quoted}

A better question would be, "What do you classify as a tank?"

A TRUE tank would have extremely high defense that demands the enemy team's attention through the combined use of CC, utility and disruption to compromise the enemy team's fighting capability. Examples include Shen Rammus Nautilus.

A lot of bruisers are being mislabeled as tanks, such as Shyvana Elise LeeSin.

I would define a tank as someone who's primary job in teamfights is to soak up as much damage and abilities as possible to prevent those things from being used on his/her team. All three of those champs CAN be their team's tank. Oh, they might not work as effectively in some situations as a tanky utility champ, but they can draw fire easily and be pretty durable if they're built for it. People just seem to think that "tank" = no damage, when that's a lie. A tank is someone who's job it is to TAKE damage for his team. If the enemy team focuses you because you're a defense-heavy bruiser and ignoring you will let you run riot on their team, possibly killing their back line... you're a tank who draws fire by being too big of a threat to ignore. It that the preferred sort of tank for most team comps? Probably not. But if one of it's contributions to fights is trying to eat as much damage and CC as possible, it's a tank.

Rope Fox3 votes

I'm new this season, and I'm talking in the forums for the first time today. My favorite Tank is Sejuani, but I also play as Garen and Gnar who is often built to be pretty tanky.

I think Tanks are supposed to get out in front of the team fight and draw fire. I think the idea here is to let your carries operate freely without pressure from the enemy team. Typically with Sejuani I am am able to make my team engage by diving in, sometimes even under turret.

Whether or not this ends well is usually dependent on whether the engage is good enough (do I get the Q knock up or the R stuns) also things like was I paying enough attention to the remaining health, energy, or mana of my proximal allies. Tanks allow for Turret dives like most other classes cannot. By drawing turret fire other champions can get inside the turret hotbox and attack without that turret focus as a repercussion. Tanks can also do this to allow allies time to take the turrets.

I'd say good tanks have disruptive stuns and CC or AoE attacks that can slow or inhibit. Even ability limiting powers like Cho'Gaths Silencing Scream comes to mind, or Garens silencing Q. The knock ups from champions like Rammus, and Sejuani are particularly handy.

Without the insight that comes from a lot of experience, I think that making yourself a hard to kill target that can disrupt formations and draw fire is the real bread and butter of a Tank. I find they make great initiators who can usually get out of dodge with good play, even from team trades.

Only Play Darius3 votes

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.VYaEhW%2fUudFvm5XtcSrMVg&pid=15.1

0ne-shot anything while being extremely difficult to kill. Accurate.

The Whamboozler1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cgLv6yMn,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-08-20T00:41:25.264+0000)

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.VYaEhW%2fUudFvm5XtcSrMVg&pid=15.1

0ne-shot anything while being extremely difficult to kill. Accurate.

I shall admit. I lol'ed.

Crunchyfied2 votes

Initiate, peel.

Poop Jelly1 votes

Simple, i like it. -thumbs up-

50000000000000001 votes

So Janna can be a tank?

Earl Eulrich1 votes

janna turns everything into a tank...*sigh*

ALethalBanana2 votes

Yes, because tanks are so frustrated to play right now. Tanks are supposed to be tanky but not almost every carry can 1v1 and take the tanks out. What's the point then. Riot keeps going and going to nerf armor & MR items, so now the tanky tanks like rammus and mundo can't have an good engage anymore. It's all about champs like Vi, Rengar, Jarvan, those who both have damage and seem just as tanky as the others.

Poop Jelly1 votes

Thanks, i know a lot of people feel this way, too.

The Whamboozler1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, because tanks are so frustrated to play right now. Tanks are supposed to be tanky but not almost every carry can 1v1 and take the tanks out. What's the point then. Riot keeps going and going to nerf armor & MR items, so now the tanky tanks like rammus and mundo can't have an good engage anymore. It's all about champs like Vi, Rengar, Jarvan, those who both have damage and seem just as tanky as the others.

Carries = the team's primary, often ONLY, damage dealers. If you don't think that the people on the enemy team who are built ENTIRELY to deal damage can kill tanks, then you are saying that no one should be able to kill tanks. This is exceptionally dumb. While I won't pretend tanks are always strong and a worthwhile pick, saying they are bad because a champion built entirely to do damage does damage to them is utterly stupid. If tanks couldn't die games would never end.

No, what tanks do is initiate fights, eat up cooldowns and CC that would otherwise land on their squishy assassins and carries, and they peel to protect said carries. A tank does enough damage to kill a carry in a teamfight if he's allowed to sit there are slap them around undeterred. But his job isn't to kill the carry. It's to FORCE the carry to focus him and the carry's tam to waste abilities and resources protecting said carry while his teammates mop up the enemy. If you're trying to 1v1 ANYONE as the tank, you're doing it wrong. If the enemy carry is killing you so quickly that your team gets nothing done before you fall.... your team is too weak. The carry is SUPPOSED to be able to kill you. He's the carry. His job description is "able to kill anything in the game, but easy to kill if I get caught". Your job isn't to be unkillable, it's to take as many of the enemy's spells and abilities to the face as you can to spare your teammates. EVEN if it kills you.

The problem with tanks was that there was little reason to ever focus them. Once Malphite ults, he's done being a problem for a while unless he's VERY far ahead... or unless he built some damage. You need to be just enough of a threat to draw fire, and tanky enough to eat as much hurt as you possibly can, so it won't be sent to the people on your team who aren't tanky. This MMO-style impression of tanks is NOT how they work in league. The tank isn't the guy who never dies. In fact, tanks die in successful teamfights ALL THE TIME. It's their job. There are essentially 3 things tanks need to do other than just being tanky to matter. Four maybe.

-Damage. AKA bruisers or fighters. Every champion does SOME damage, but these guys do more. They draw fire because if you ignore them... they hurt. They can slap people around good and letting them get to your carry is a bad plan. If they're ahead they can also kill other bruisers, assassins and tanks as well. They're the most common "tanks" in a lot of games, and the line between a tanky damage champ and a damaging tank is VERY blurry. It's a sliding scale, with people deciding how much damage and tank they need based on how ahead they are, their team comp and so on. Garen and Olaf are PURE damage champs. They lack much else besides damage and durability. Plenty of other champs can fill the role tho, just with more overlap in the other things tanks do. Like...

-Initation. Freakin' Malphite. These scmucks go hard and start fights when their team has an edge (hopefully). Traditionally these guys have AoE CC or damage skills, often that involve diving headfirst into the enemy. These champs tend to suffer the biggest "tank problems" if they ONLY initiate fights with nothing to do afterwards. Fortunately, this role has a LOT of overlap with damage tanks and the CC/peel tanks below. Absolutely NONE of the initiaton tanks in the game are devoid of CC AND damage. Some have both. In fact, it's VERY rare for a champ to be an initiation tank without CC. Shyvana is the only I can think of off the top of my head. She can dive the enemy to start a fight, but beyond that she's mostly a damage tank. Technically, this category also includes champs like Blitzcrank, Thresh and Naut who start fights by getting a pick, forcing the enemy to either leave a member of their team for dead or pick a fight to try and save them.

-Peel tanks. CC/lockdown types usually. I just call them peel tanks. This tank is defends his squishies. This USUALLY involves CC, but can also involve a swift, gory death instead. While almost all initiators can by default peel, thanks to that AoE CC, peel tanks are tanks who cannot usually initiate well. They often have strong CC to disable attackers coming for their back line. Taric is probably the only peel tank in the game who isn't split into damage or initiation as well (barring the ever-majestic flash+dazzle play). The other champs most associated with peeling are the decidedly NON-tanky mage-supports like Janna, but while most people assume peel champs are always squishy, low-damage support types that is NOT the case. Darius and Galio are tanky and have pretty strong damage, but are too immobile to really start a good fight. But if you come at their carries, prepare to be peeled and killed.

-The Aura tank. This sort of tank doesn't REALLY exist, but possibly could. A tank who's presence provides such useful buffs to his team or debuffs to the enemy that them just staying alive helps to win fights. Many champs have abilities like this and items can provide more, but these champs don't really fulfill the tank role, since they're rarely focused EVER unless they are one of the other types of tank as well. It's always more useful to slay the squishy carry RECEIVING the buff than to try and kill the tanky SOB giving it to him. Debuffs work better for drawing ire, since an aura or ability that cripples the enemy's ability to fight makes you more of a target than just someone who heals or buffs people. But even then, it's still rarely a reason to focus the champion giving the debuff so much as to avoid fighting in situations where the debuff will keep you from winning. If the debuff is a crippling slow or AS slow, these guys are technically just weak initiators or peelers... preventing the enemy from fighting their carries effectively or slowing someone while the enemy is fleeing to let the team pick them off. Healers by default are this sort of champion, but are rarely tanky and rarely focused first.

But yeah... name a tank in the game and they probably fall into one or more of those catagories. Some are in all three, some focus on one, and some vary in how well they handle each... but if you wanna call yourself a tank, you had BETTER do one of those things in addition to taking an extra few seconds to kill if focused, or you are ENTIRELY useless.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Carries = the team's primary, often ONLY, damage dealers. If you don't think that the people on the enemy team who are built ENTIRELY to deal damage can kill tanks, then you are saying that no one should be able to kill tanks. This is exceptionally dumb. While I won't pretend tanks are always strong and a worthwhile pick, saying they are bad because a champion built entirely to do damage does damage to them is utterly stupid. If tanks couldn't die games would never end.

This is the kind of mentality that made tanks useless. A) tanks are more or less designed to engage at the entire team, so it should be a team effort to deal with them. A good ADC may be required to kill the tank. But a good ADC shouldn't be soloing the tank. To say that ADC's are a Direct counter to tanks is also foolish. B) With all the previous points in mind. It's still fair compared to a glass cannon build. Because a Glass cannon, while not having the team presence of someone who can tank everyone, will have better turret sieging power and faster objective control in general.

The Whamboozler1 votes

{quoted}

This is the kind of mentality that made tanks useless. A) tanks are more or less designed to engage at the entire team, so it should be a team effort to deal with them. A good ADC may be required to kill the tank. But a good ADC shouldn't be soloing the tank. To say that ADC's are a Direct counter to tanks is also foolish. B) With all the previous points in mind. It's still fair compared to a glass cannon build. Because a Glass cannon, while not having the team presence of someone who can tank everyone, will have better turret sieging power and faster objective control in general.

Ok, so let me get this straight. You think that killing the tank should take all, or at least the majority of, the enemy team. Well you are wrong, sir. Some adc's are very strong duelists. Some are very GOOD tank shredders. Strong sustained damage and tower-taking is quite literally all they bring to a team. Every adc won't be able to do this, but some can... and all of them should have the capability of doing so if they outplay you. Hell, mages, bruisers and even other tanks should be able to kill you 1v1 if they play the fight better than you. It sounds like you want tanks to be duelists... and most are not. The few who are tend to be damage-heavy bruisers.

In any case, I never said adc's are a counter to tanks. That depends on the champion match ups. I said a character who is built entirely for damage, should be able to put out damage. If your tank is far ahead, they shouldn't have enough damage to kill you quickly, but they WILL still kill you eventually if you just keep eating attacks. That's the point. If they are ahead, they should kill you quicker. And come endgame 6-item builds... they're carries. They ARE supposed to output strong endgame damage against everyone. They also require an entire team to protect them due to their vulnerability. It's not a game of 1v1's or trying to rack up a lot of kills. If you die to the enemy adc, but you drew his fire long enough for your team to win the teamfight... you did your job! If you want to dive into the enemy team and kill their carry... there are champions for that! Assassins are the role best at it, but you seem to want the safety of some decent defensive stats. So grab a dive-happy bruiser and go for it. There are plenty. Olaf Pantheon Shyvana Urgot MonkeyKing Garen Diana and Gragas can all be pretty tanky and still put out a good chunk of damage. Go nuts.

But don't complain that tanks as a whole are crap because you got killed by a 4 item Vayne or something. There is no perfect champion out there that does everything. "Tank" is a role with a wide variety of champions in it. Pick the ones that suit the situation and learn how to turn situations that aren't your champion's bread and butter to your advantage. Don't just complain about something being OP because it beat you.

AtheosisX2 votes

There are different kinds of tanks, and generally a lot of confusion over the term. So here's my take on the three basic types of tanks:

  1. Support tank - This is what most people refer to as true tanks. They have lots of cc, build all or nearly all tanky items, and exist primarily to enable damage dealers to apply their damage and survive via "peeling".

  2. Engage tank - This is a kind of tank that is fairly similar to support tanks in terms of lots of cc. In fact a tank can be both, with some support tanks being engage tanks and vice versa. The big thing with this kind of tank is initiating team fights, usually with an ult, and disrupting the enemy team in such a way that your team can get the edge in damage application. Most jungle tanks are engage tanks.

  3. Tank bruiser - Tank bruisers are entirely oriented towards advancing on carries, soaking damage, and killing said carries when they reach them. They have mediocre to virtually non-existent cc, but are often just as hard to kill as "true tanks". They generally have ways to apply quite a bit of damage without building damage items, but are pretty much universally kitable.

What's worth noting is that there really isn't any universal rule for which kind of tank is most durable. It's more how they use their durability and what they are supposed to do with it within the context of a team.

The Whamboozler1 votes

{quoted}

There are different kinds of tanks, and generally a lot of confusion over the term. So here's my take on the three basic types of tanks:

  1. Support tank - This is what most people refer to as true tanks. They have lots of cc, build all or nearly all tanky items, and exist primarily to enable damage dealers to apply their damage and survive via "peeling".

  2. Engage tank - This is a kind of tank that is fairly similar to support tanks in terms of lots of cc. In fact a tank can be both, with some support tanks being engage tanks and vice versa. The big thing with this kind of tank is initiating team fights, usually with an ult, and disrupting the enemy team in such a way that your team can get the edge in damage application. Most jungle tanks are engage tanks.

  3. Tank bruiser - Tank bruisers are entirely oriented towards advancing on carries, soaking damage, and killing said carries when they reach them. They have mediocre to virtually non-existent cc, but are often just as hard to kill as "true tanks". They generally have ways to apply quite a bit of damage without building damage items, but are pretty much universally kitable.

What's worth noting is that there really isn't any universal rule for which kind of tank is most durable. It's more how they use their durability and what they are supposed to do with it within the context of a team.

This is a less wordy version of the exact same post I made on the page before this one. I'm glad someone else agrees with me at least, but I gather you didn't read the comments before responding.

AtheosisX1 votes

Not all of them, no. Read it after you said this though. You and I are in complete agreement. Trying to define tanks as only one thing just doesn't work. You need various categories for them to really understand them.

LithiumWednesday1 votes

Hope they have enough HP and pray their carries can do enough damage while they soak?

Erockandroll1 votes

I feel like a standard Tank. (usually as a top laner) Should have high CC. (preferably in an AoE), hard to kill unless focused, And at least one initiation tool.

{quoted}

Yes, because tanks are so frustrated to play right now. Tanks are supposed to be tanky but not almost every carry can 1v1 and take the tanks out. What's the point then. Riot keeps going and going to nerf armor & MR items, so now the tanky tanks like rammus and mundo can't have an good engage anymore. It's all about champs like Vi, Rengar, Jarvan, those who both have damage and seem just as tanky as the others.

Now when did those two ever have good engage? Rammus has good catch potential which makes him a better Jungler, not necessarily a better tank. And Mundo, I consider to be more of a Juggernaut, since he lacking in CC, but has some pretty good DPS.

{quoted}

A better question would be, "What do you classify as a tank?"

I'll separate this into Top, Jungle, and Support tanks.

Top lane: I see a good top lane tank as someone with Good AoE, a lot of CC, and a good engage tool. Compared to Bruisers who way back when, simply did the tanks job better. I feel like a Tank should have more AoE and Essentially more magier qualities. The reason for this is, aside from Team wide disruption, But as a top laner, you should have enough power to clear wave. (not necessarily with one spell, but in one rotation) But unlike Juggernauts. it should be in the form of Burst and not DPS. CC is particularly important because any Disable against the enemy compliments your tankyness. Champs who would fit this would be Sion and Maokai.

Jungle: Similar to Top lane, except trade some of the Unkilability with additional or more reliable engage. Because your going to have fewer items than a top laner, you need to be more reliant on you abilities. Because Tanks will have slower objective taking power than other Junglers, they need to make up for that with their ganks. Any tank with good gank/enage power like Gragas or Sejuani, are perfect. Splash in an extra slow to slow down enemy retreats, and you have the formula for a good tank Jungler.

Support: When people think Tank support, they usually think of the catch potential that a thresh, Leona, or Blitz has. But I want to set those aside because I don't think that should define a "Tank Support." (Fighter support might be more accurate.) I feel like a support tank should be a good damage mittigator. Similar to any other tank, only that your tankyness comes almost exclusively from your spells. (rather than tanky items) Champions such as Alistar and Braum, who take reduceds damage as result of their abilities, regardless of items.

Poop Jelly1 votes

thanks. It was insightful to read.

DEN TEL0S1 votes

Lots of hp, armor, and mr. So hard to kill. Very little damage, but enough cc and other effects to make them important enough to focus.

Meep Man1 votes

Control the enemy

Baunjo1 votes

What a tank does depends entirely on what the team comp of your team and the enemy team is. But as a general rule of thumb, they should be causing disruption that cannot be ignored and making either the enemy back line's job harder or your back line's job easier.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

it´s really a good discussion to have, as the term is somewhat off in lol.

lol-"tanks": provide a lot of CC, used to engage or peel. have quite some base-tankiness due to abilities (e.g. alistar ult, braum shield, leona ball of stats w), so they donßt need much gear to "tank". Also, they don´t offer enough sustained threat to force an opponent to directly focus them in a teamfight, so they mostly just eat some random ongoing dmg instead of the brute-force of the opponent team.

lol-"bruisers": need to actually tank everything and then some, as they have to wade through tons of CC and dps in order to get to a spot where they can actually impact the fight. Those Champs are incredible dependend on tank-items providing good defense, as they usually have to build dmg aswell as tankiness to be effective and can´t relay on too much base-tank-tools.

so the term "tank" really doesn´t hit the nail...most "tanks" are actually supports for all needs and purposes.

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