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Kindred Buff!!!!!!

tpcameron22··1 votes·1,701 views

I haven't played in a while because I was annoyed with some aspects of the game, most of which have been fixed. I started playing again and looking through the new patches looking for a kindred Kindred Buff. She was good for a while then idk what happened she just became impossible to do good with and it was really bothering me bc I started to main her and was heavily carrying games. Have I missed something. I'm scared to play a game with her to see if its fixed. Have I just overseen a new patch? the last time I played was the middle of season 6. I feel like she is just very underdeveloped. She could use something a little extra because she is a delicate balance, like maybe the enemy not seeing her marks or her ult not healing other team or something small to make her playable again Thank you

Edit: I remember an insane power drop off late game even though early game was bad and mid was only good if I got like first 2 bloods. And if you down vote please tell me why this ahs been bothering me

12 Comments

Tormentula2 votes

They were the most horrifying thing to let exist in this game when they were meta.

The champion's kit design is so bad its impossible to balance them without either tipping them over the edge or making them super weak. They're honestly in the azir and kalista situation right now.

{quoted}

Edit: I remember an insane power drop off late game even though early game was bad and mid was only good if I got like first 2 bloods.

Oh hell no that is not true, atleast not for release kindred.

They basically lived in your jg level 2, or level 2 ganked lanes, while easily catching anybody level 3 with their nasus wither E. Mid game was a weird time for them if they weren't snowballing, but late game was like dealing with another vayne due to their permanant %health stacking and traditional scaling with items like most marksmen.

Right now their early game is weak and its harder for them to get their marks to scale mid-late game, but riot is currently testing some stuff on the PBE with the mark spawning (such as guaranteing first mark is crab not raptors). They're also going to try and make kindred favor crit builds so they scale better like a marksmen rather than their current attack speed armor pen mallet bruiser build. They need buffs but there was never a better reason for something to get gutted this badly. (then again there's lee and yas...)

tpcameron221 votes

Even something small like before 15 mins the enemy cant see your marks or anything to make marks easier because if you don't collect your marks early you are basically screwed for rest of game. and I have trouble ganking with her pre-6 because of how squishy she is. there were games I would KS so hard and be like 4-0 in 5 mins then finish the game 8-8 bc I didn't pay attention to marks. I just want something small to make her playable again

Banned12562 votes

The real issue with Kindred is their skill requirements. If you look at stats like on op.gg their win rate skyrockets after about 10 games played, but op.gg only uses stats from plat or higher. This means that these games are based on people who already have extensive game sense and knowledge that lower elos have a hard time with. One of the bigger ones is definitely using the map actively to track the enemy team to know if you are about to get 3 manned or if the marks are free pickings.

While on the marks, kindred has a loaded kit that revolves almost entirely around the marks. All three main abilities rely on the marks for damage, q has a flat +5(i think) boost from the # of marks, w receives a percentage of the mark damage and e is based on auto damage, so yeah. Again some people don't understand the critical value of the marks and the true power of infinite scaling percent health damage. Not to mention hidden mechanics and decent outplay potential

In terms of buffs, a small buff that really helps out the bronze - gold players in the game has a massive effect in diamond-challenger. For example, when the change for the w was released after worlds in season 6, the heal was replaced with a slow on jungle monsters, riot released two mid patch changes for kindred that canceled each other out.

The first reverted to mechanic that was on kindred in their initial release. Basically, the mark damage earned throughout the game was added into attack damage before crit multiplier when into effect so you could get monster crits. One video shows over 8k crit on baron(really old video before they capped it). Anyway, this means you can have ~150-200 ad and crit for 750 with ie(instead of 500) on another adc, which is unhealthy(not to mention the ~2 attack speed). Once riot saw this they immediately removed that change.

Basically kindred changes are incredibly unstable, a parallel could be drawn to ryze, and something closer to a minor rework might be required.

tpcameron221 votes

Just something little, like a base armor buff because I always find myself getting deleted right away I 2-3 hits and cant hit a successful gank and then I'm behind for the rest of the game, And what is your build? thanks for the contribution

SirLapse2 votes

I had a 3 game winstreak from only practicing some mechanics for the champion and watching high elo players. I'm technically mid/high silver 2 on game knowledge and execution so I'm below my elo, but I didn't even own Kindred until late last year when I bought her with Rek'Sai.

Her early game is not weak at all. You just get your ganks going as fast as possible and your base damages alone will get the opponent vulnerable to your laner and will take 50% of their health. Her base armor is what is low (since she is a marksman and that nerf was needed), so anything that attempts to invade her will smash her early if she is not aware of the possibility.

You have 4 mixing possibilities essentially for Kindred players: -They know how to place marks so that they'll be getting a mark or CLOSE to getting a mark every 2 minutes. -They know how to snowball a game while only getting less than 4 marks, abusing the fact that the mark is in the enemy jungle and incompetent low elo junglers will go obtain it, losing lane pressure to prevent kindred from getting what is usually a whole 11-25 damage on auto's and 5 damage on Dance of Arrows. -They know when to use ultimate instead of waste it because there was no chance of survival. -They lack knowledge on jungling itself or Kindred herself.

Riot has balanced Kindred on the first 3 possibilities, and the majority of the players failing with her have the 4th possibility mixed in which is not able to be quantified.

I do not agree with crit builds really, even the highest winrate Kindreds build attack speed as a priority and only grab Black Cleaver when there is a tank on the enemy team. Junglers don't get much gold so crit DAMAGE items are horrendously difficult to obtain vs. just a Runaan's. Mallet is late game usually and helps to support wolf, so I'm not sure why Riot thinks the interaction itself wouldn't be something she'd aim for. Same for Teemo and Gnar, who function somewhat like marksman if sticking to auto-attacks.

tpcameron221 votes

Thank you, I will take that into consideration. Just to be cklear you recommend to leave the marks in enemy jng and just focus on your marks? and what is your favorite build? I normally start with runnans but end up building armor so I don't get deleted leaving me with no offense

SirLapse2 votes

{quoted}

Thank you, I will take that into consideration. Just to be cklear you recommend to leave the marks in enemy jng and just focus on your marks? and what is your favorite build? I normally start with runnans but end up building armor so I don't get deleted leaving me with no offense

Just going to note that she's horrible at URF. Understand that I'm speaking from Ranked POV.

You have to be a little experienced specifically with the rune setups you are planning on using. Currently there's the Lethality marks/Armor(or HP) seals/Attack Speed glyphs/Attack Speed Quint, and full Attack Speed/Armor seals. The former is really good at getting high damage ganks but arguably fits better with Flash and Thunderlord's. The latter is better with Stormraider's and Ghost, primarily because you'll be able to attack fast enough to utilize both earlier into the game.

Choose one of those and start using practice tool to do no leash clears. Blue > Wolves > Red and Red > Wolves > Blue. Do not Smite the first camp and attempt to clear this path by specifically smiting your last camp or Scuttle if you can manage that. Always start Hunter's Machete and Refillable, popping the first refillable potion and NOT the second after getting done with your first camp. If you've done everything right, you should have one Smite coming up soon, one refill charge left and enough HP to go for scuttle safely. Once you've done Scuttle, you can look for a gank. This formula is very important to follow, but always look out for invasions. Everyone loves to invade Kindred early.

Here's where it gets tricky: with the Stormraider's build you have to Ghost before the enemy sees you walk into lane. Ping your teammate and you should be able to make something work out. Bottom lane is a risk. They have Exhaust 99% of the time and will kill you if your laners aren't going to follow up. With the Lethality build you have Flash to cover for you to dodge skillshots or escape a potential death. Keep that in mind.

Marks are the easiest thing ever. If Raptors are marked for the enemy, your practice should mean that you have a Smite charge up. They will have to waste THEIR smite if they want to clear the camp sooner, because most junglers cannot handle that camp specifically. If they won't Smite it then ironically you can contest the big Raptor (which is the only one that gives the Mark) and just leave right after. If it's Graves jungle or something that can't handle Raptors in the early stages at all, you can find them around the area and kill them. If it's a lower tier jungler like Gragas, Rammus, etc. who do not have fast clears, you can for sure take the big Raptor because they usually won't have Smite ready. Scuttle is the hardest Mark in the entire game honestly, because the enemy jungler most likely can contest you on it based on which side they started. If it's around you then your second Smite can be used to secure it and you can gank from there. If you know the enemy started on the side it spawned, they can't be there for when they finish initial clear, so you do not need to smite Scuttle 100% of the time.

Builds: -Attack speed before anything. That means you should be getting Daggers before Skirmisher's 9/10 times unless you are expecting to duel in the early stages of the game. Bloodrazor first item. -Complete boots next, as it helps you move around the map. Very important for Kindred. Berserker Greaves honestly are garbage unless you're snowballing, Mobility boots are garbage unless you already are an experienced Kindred, and usually you will have to resort to Ninja Tabi (if they have a lot of auto-attackers) or Merc Treads (MR but mostly for the CC reduction). -Third item is based on what you need. BoRK for dueling, Runaan's for waveclear, Black Cleaver for handling tanks as they start scaling (Lee Sin usually builds tank items so keep that in mind). Runaan's is a key item so it should be your 4th item if it isn't your third. BoRK is starting to feel really good as a third item for most games. -Guardian Angel is the best item you can get if you're already at the stage where your team can win fights. You don't need to keep building offense at that point, but you shouldn't rush this item before you can actually fight the enemy. -As for Frozen Mallet, honestly it's a terrible item for most of the stages in the game and works like GA in that you're defensively building to make the enemy unable to respond to you. Never rush this thing.

You should look for jungling tips if you need knowledge there across multiple Youtube videos, or just plain Kindred high elo vids. You can advance a lot of skill in just improving how you handle camp clear order and the macro game alone regardless of jungler. That's all I can really give you information-wise so good luck putting it to use.

tpcameron221 votes

omg, I just got 3 s- with kindred in a row, but that's because I got evry mark right away and solo every drake, I didn't engage at all till 15 mins where I was 2 lvls ahead of everyone and had full jng item and berserker's graves, I deleted both bot laners in a 2v1. the other team also had a kindred and fail she went like 2-18. I'm concluding these posts saying kindred kindred is very inconsistent and is only good with an excellent pre game! Thank you to everyone who contributed. but I still believe the opposing team shoukd not be able to see the marks on their camps bc they got the hang of it and I was 5-1 destroyed.

edit: one last thing, What would the desired rune page be, I was working off basically full ad page with a little attack speed and 1 armor

SirLapse1 votes

{quoted}

omg, I just got 3 s- with kindred in a row, but that's because I got evry mark right away and solo every drake, I didn't engage at all till 15 mins where I was 2 lvls ahead of everyone and had full jng item and berserker's graves, I deleted both bot laners in a 2v1. the other team also had a kindred and fail she went like 2-18. I'm concluding these posts saying kindred kindred is very inconsistent and is only good with an excellent pre game! Thank you to everyone who contributed. but I still believe the opposing team shoukd not be able to see the marks on their camps bc they got the hang of it and I was 5-1 destroyed.

edit: one last thing, What would the desired rune page be, I was working off basically full ad page with a little attack speed and 1 armor

The enemy has to see the Marks or they won't know what camp you're planning on going to. You can use this for mindgames like I said and pop up where they least expect you. Keep track of the enemy jungler if you can and try to ward before starting a camp in their jungle.

Generally you'll want to Mark champions and get Marks at least once every 2 minutes. Either from a gank or from a jungle Mark.

I noted the runes you can use, just re-read my last post. Warlord's is garbage on Kindred because it doesn't work on jungle creeps, stick with Thunderlord's if you're going to use one build every single game. Try to stick with a single build.

Your example build for most games will be: item 1419 item 3006 item 3085 item 3153 item 3026

You take BoTRK before Runaan's if you're not massively ahead. DO NOT SELL YOUR JUNGLE ITEM. STOP BUYING THINGS RANDOMLY LIKE PHANTOM DANCER/RELIC SHIELD. Apparently after Last Whisper changes, it is better to buy it vs. Black Cleaver if you have to deal with tanks after you see that their second armor item is built (press TAB to check that stuff). Anyway the rest should fill itself in if you want high elo Kindreds in your spare time and see what they do build/rune/strategy-wise.

tpcameron221 votes

the main reason I bought phantom dancer is because it also increases movement speed and kindred was becoming really slow and I was falling behind, and I only sold jng item once and it was after lvl 18 and I only needed 1k till full build I forgot what I was building but yeah

Dviné Kaylè1 votes

She needs a buff... she is a marksmane jungler riot it self said that is one of her unique things but that´s what makes her squichy and risky. The heal on her w balanced that althaugh she is a marksmen jungler she dont deal 2863782836 dmg no thats why she could need this heal. Her ult is pretty unique but they rlly should change it. 325 movment speed is rlly awful and becuz she isnt a tanky jungler she already was ez to kill but they even decided that she had too much armor and took 5 of it to [zombie-nunu-tears] her pickrate is 2%!! maby the winrate isnt rlly dat low but just if someone plays her in high elo . I rlly wanted to main her but she just got boring to play....Kindred All in all she needs a buff otherway this insanly high price of 6300 seems ludicrious

tpcameron221 votes

right, I love her ult I used it once as I w qed and got a penta off it

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