Possible fix to Rengar bola situation.

Emperor Time·Mar 2, 2016·7 votes·2,747 views

So alot of Rengar mains are pretty upset with these bola changes. Pretty much all of /r Rengarmains are livid over it. We were fine with the q and ult nerf, but this bola nerf was just plain dumb. So here is a possible fix. Instead of giving bola a cast time, why don't you just decrease the missle speed while in jump? I think that would have been a more reasonable fix to Rengar's "lack of counterplay" problem. Or you could just remove the change completely. He's insanely hard to play now thanks to this new bola. Also the bola doesn't spawn behind Rengar at all right now. Here's some video proof if you don't believe me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GTdqno6ylA This is from a 2 year Rengar main. While your at it you need to fix the jump AA bug with statikk shiv and RFC. At the moment if Rengar has either of these items they will not proc on the jump AA, which is not how it's supposed to work. Please riot I don't ask for much, but please just fix these problems.

40 Comments

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20164 votes

Shh, you'll piss off all the Kha'Zix mains who can't W mid-air anymore.

But honestly, Riot needs to decide whether they want him to even have the ability to E mid-air anymore.

If they think he SHOULD be able to E mid-air, then why make it so difficult to execute every time? It needlessly increases the skill-cap of the champion. Why is this a bad thing? Because, just like Riven, it means Rengar can be garbage in the hands of most players, while utterly broken in the hands of skilled ones. This will prevent Riot from nerfing him due to stats showing a low win rate, meaning those few dedicated players will have a completely unfair advantage. Making Rengar less difficult to use would allow him to be easier to balance, since Riot wouldn't have to compensate for that very small percentage of players who have completely mastered him.

Of course, most people who main a champion do take pride in reaching that level of champion mastery, and don't want everyone able to play the champion. This is still the current problem with balancing Riven: People who main her have worked so hard to master the champion that they would rather see her gutted than have that aspect of her removed that makes her so difficult, even if it would result in a more balanced champion.

Both sides of this argument have valid points, and honestly neither approach is the correct one; leaving the champion as-is will leave the game less balanced, while changing the champion will devastate those who have mastered that champion.

Going back to Rengar, if he SHOULDN'T be able to E mid-air, then they should hurry up and remove it instead of letting it linger like an open wound; it either needs to be properly stitched up, or amputated quickly to prevent infection. Leaving it with a smiley-face bandage and a kitten "Hang in there!" poster will make him a subject of imbalance.

As of now, if a player can actually execute the E mid-air combo through all its clunky interactions, then Rengar is considered obnoxiously strong. If the game decides to be buggy when he does the combo, then Rengar will fail that current mission, making him feel weak.

TR;DR: Rengar is super clunky, to the point of executing his combo correctly feeling like blind luck. Either make this ability smoother, meaning Riot doesn't have to balance based on the randomness of the ability working correctly, or remove it entirely, meaning Riot can apply power in other places.

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20162 votes

I enjoy the Rengar complaining about the bola missing when he still instakilled the ADC without an empowered ability

GamblerOfLivesMar 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:37:40.056+0000)

I enjoy the Rengar complaining about the bola missing when he still instakilled the ADC without an empowered ability

imagine if that wasn't jhin. let's say it was lucian or graves. You miss the bola, you died:).get it now?

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

imagine if that wasn't jhin. let's say it was lucian or graves. You miss the bola, you died:).get it now?

Am I supposed to feel bad for Rengar or something

cuz I really dont

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20162 votes

No one is telling you to be sorry for anyone?

You SHOULD want the game to be working properly, that way it can be balanced correctly.

Also, you should pay more attention to basic facts, like a Jhin being out of position. He made a mistake, and he got punished. My guess is he probably made enough mistakes all game long to get Rengar fed to the point where he can still kill him without his Bola.

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:07:21.958+0000)

No one is telling you to be sorry for anyone?

You SHOULD want the game to be working properly, that way it can be balanced correctly.

Also, you should pay more attention to basic facts, like a Jhin being out of position. He made a mistake, and he got punished. My guess is he probably made enough mistakes all game long to get Rengar fed to the point where he can still kill him without his Bola.

Half the champs I play are bugged and have been for years

Darius gets trapped in W animation if the target becomes untargetable during the animation Vladimir loses his Q heal if he pools immediately after using it Yasuo can't autoattack after ulting, took 3 years for Wind Wall to work remotely properly vs targeted spells and still doesn't half the time Azir I just want to autoattack without the soldier failing to deal damage

Get in line

Support EvelynnMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:12:57.362+0000)

Half the champs I play are bugged and have been for years

gets trapped in W animation if the target becomes untargetable during the animation loses his Q heal if he pools immediately after using it can't autoattack after ulting, took 3 years for Wind Wall to work remotely properly vs targeted spells and still doesn't half the time I just want to autoattack without the soldier failing to deal damage

Get in line

Yeah but they didn't intentionally do that to these champions, if they wanted to nerf Rengar fine, but it completely ruined the feeling of playing him.

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20162 votes

So apparently this is all Rengar's fault from your perspective?

I'm not saying that every other champion is perfect, I'm just saying that a fundamental part of Rengar's kit is super clunky and nearly unusable. It's pointing out a problem that needs to be solved. How is this bashing on any other champion?

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:25:40.998+0000)

So apparently this is all Rengar's fault from your perspective?

I'm not saying that every other champion is perfect, I'm just saying that a fundamental part of Rengar's kit is super clunky and nearly unusable. It's pointing out a problem that needs to be solved. How is this bashing on any other champion?

>Aim a skillshot instead

Just pretend you're playing Khazix, another garbage champion

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

Okay now you are just bashing on the champion and its players while displaying that you have little to no understanding of how this mechanic actually works.

You still have to aim the Bola while you're in mid-air; it's not going to magically attach itself to the correct target. The only difference is that you effectively cancel its animation by using it mid-air, similar to the way Riven can cancel a ton of her ability animations by using her shield.

How does stating your opinion on Kha'Zix being a "garbage champion" (which is completely false) helping to prove your point in the slightest?

GamblerOfLivesMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:01:07.815+0000)

Am I supposed to feel bad for Rengar or something

cuz I really dont

w/e dude, You clearly don't understand

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

w/e dude, You clearly don't understand

Turn around and press E

I know landing skillshots is hard and stuff but you'll manage

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

Again, clearly you have no understanding on how the combo actually works, and that it's not just being "unable or unwilling to aim a skillshot," but being upset that a mechanic that Rengar mains have put many hours of practice into mastering has been reduced to a random chance of actually working correctly.

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:48:53.211+0000)

Again, clearly you have no understanding on how the combo actually works, and that it's not just being "unable or unwilling to aim a skillshot," but being upset that a mechanic that Rengar mains have put many hours of practice into mastering has been reduced to a random chance of actually working correctly.

"Mastering"

You mean the combo with a .2 second window to react, because they're dodging half the animation of an ability from 400 range that you cast from stealth?

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

So because it doesn't offer a lot of counterplay, it means that getting the timing down correctly while still leading the skillshot in the direction the enemy is going to be walking isn't difficult to pull off?

That's like saying Alistar's old Headbutt - Pulverize Combo didn't take practice because the enemy couldn't do anything to react.

And even if it wasn't "difficult" to master, it's still a mechanic that Rengar players have trained themselves to do instinctively. If it were changed, it would put to waste all that time spent into getting it memorized and turned into a natural impulse.

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=00010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:56:40.312+0000)

So because it doesn't offer a lot of counterplay, it means that getting the timing down correctly while still leading the skillshot in the direction the enemy is going to be walking isn't difficult to pull off?

That's like saying Alistar's old Headbutt - Pulverize Combo didn't take practice because the enemy couldn't do anything to react.

And even if it wasn't "difficult" to master, it's still a mechanic that Rengar players have trained themselves to do instinctively. If it were changed, it would put to waste all that time spent into getting it memorized and turned into a natural impulse.

You mean like when I had to relearn Apprehend's range every 2 patches as they made undocumented changes to it, finishing with a complete revamp of the ability to make it no longer function at max range on fleeing or dashing targets?

You'll manage

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20162 votes

Oh so because YOUR champion went through changes, I'M not allowed to complain that Riot is leaving this mechanic buggy and unplayable?

Just because other champions have had problems doesn't mean we should suddenly stop pointing out mistakes in Riot's changes. Even if they have different ideas than us, we have the fucking right to voice our opinions. They may see eye-to-eye with us, or find a mistake they didn't notice.

GamblerOfLivesMar 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:50:41.234+0000)

"Mastering"

You mean the combo with a .2 second window to react, because they're dodging half the animation of an ability from 400 range that you cast from stealth?

???????? this guy..

Listen here dude. I used to love playing rengar. I even played him ADC and dominating, that's how comfortable i was with him. currently have like 190 mastery points with him. After the nerfs i played a few games and he feels buggy as hell. I still did good, bcs well, i am a good player.

Since now he feels so clunky to play, i don;t really enjoy him.

Also, the dmg nerfs, and especially the ulti nerfs early were a bit overdoing it. Now, as a jungler, when you hit level 6, you won;t kill the target. he can see you from a mile away, which is bs. He needs 12 stacks in order to even be a good assasin. And 12 stacks with an unreliable ulti, really hard to do. But it;s fine, i can make it work, bcs i used to love playing him

Now, with this new change on his E. It;s not even a new mechanic, It's more like a 50-50 RNG chance.

And also, he was not op before the nerfs, good teams could shut him down. But, the QQ from bronze players is too strong.

PS. His combo, it;s not that easy to do. Even i fail sometimes.

Jolly RogeredMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:01:07.815+0000)

Am I supposed to feel bad for Rengar or something

cuz I really dont

You take this game too seriously.

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

The point is that the champion's kit is not functioning correctly to begin with.

If it WAS working correctly, then Riot could properly say "Okay, when the player executes this combo correctly, with the Bola actually working the way it's supposed to, he is this strong. We can now change his numbers to put him in a more balanced state."

Right now, they are still experimenting with his numerical statistics based on the fact that his Bola is acting clunky. Because of this, they can't reliably determine how much they should change his stats because of this nearly RNG natured occurrence.

Also, he didn't kill him instantly at all. If Jhin was playing safer, maybe staying near teammates, Rengar wouldn't have been able to kill Jhin before he was locked down and blown-up, all because his Bola isn't doing what it is supposed to do.

^This would be much more noticeable in a teamfight, where ONLY executing this combo perfectly will result positively for Rengar. If, however, the Bola acts up like this, then Rengar would be unfairly punished despite him performing this combo the same way he has been doing it for (in this example) 2 years.

Support EvelynnMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:37:40.056+0000)

I enjoy the Rengar complaining about the bola missing when he still instakilled the ADC without an empowered ability

Come on he crit like 3 times rofl, with just a shiv no less. If he didn't crit he would have probably died to jhin and his team mate because he missed a huge part of his damage combo.

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simon Blackquill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:17:15.871+0000)

Come on he crit like 3 times rofl, with just a shiv no less. If he didn't crit he would have probably died to jhin and his team mate because he missed a huge part of his damage combo.

So many .3 second death recaps

So little compassion

Support EvelynnMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:20:13.769+0000)

So many .3 second death recaps

So little compassion

I can do those with Talon, Eve, Nocturne, etc... Are you going to sit here and pretend it's just Rengar who instakills people?

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simon Blackquill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:22:07.277+0000)

I can do those with Talon, Eve, Nocturne, etc... Are you going to sit here and pretend it's just Rengar who instakills people?

Rengar is the only champion I've ever had burst a teammate so fast that they died while untargetable during Devour's animation

At least the others have some kind of warning or combo

Support EvelynnMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=00010002000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:28:18.410+0000)

Rengar is the only champion I've ever had burst a teammate so fast that they died while untargetable during Devour's animation

At least the others have some kind of warning or combo

https://45.media.tumblr.com/abb8747a45fd5b7e0f3f04d58f216089/tumblr_nfhs4qolU51sdk5d7o1_500.gif

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simon Blackquill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=000100020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:35:28.731+0000)

https://45.media.tumblr.com/abb8747a45fd5b7e0f3f04d58f216089/tumblr_nfhs4qolU51sdk5d7o1_500.gif

?

https://youtu.be/yW_st2H2Y2Y?t=5

Talon actually has to complete a Q animation, Rengar kills you the instant he contacts your model

And he can't even do that anymore regardless, good luck itemizing crit on Talon in season 6

Support EvelynnMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=0001000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:40:58.140+0000)

https://youtu.be/yW_st2H2Y2Y?t=5

Talon actually has to complete a Q animation, Rengar kills you the instant he contacts your model

And he can't even do that anymore regardless, good luck itemizing crit on Talon in season 6

That video has been irrelevant since they changed when the Q hits in the animation. That was when Q hit in midair instead of landing so you could prime a second Q right before landing while also landing the bola, W and tiamat.

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simon Blackquill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=00010002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:56:03.166+0000)

That video has been irrelevant since they changed when the Q hits in the animation. That was when Q hit in midair instead of landing so you could prime a second Q right before landing while also landing the bola, W and tiamat.

And no one else on the list can build crit anymore, so that still makes him the fastest

Support EvelynnMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cf2hEh91,comment-id=000100020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T06:00:49.899+0000)

And no one else on the list can build crit anymore, so that still makes him the fastest

I'd argue AP assassins like LB and Eve can be just as fast or faster.

And just because Rengar is marginally faster than someone like Talon due to crit (and I do stress MARGINALLY) it doesn't mean that an adc has any effective time gained to react lol.

Let's be real what is an ADC supposed to do against this?

http://puu.sh/nrOIA/af7acf9775.webm

Emperor TimeMar 2, 20161 votes

I don't get your vendetta against Rengar, but a lot of people have put time and effort into learning the champion and to just have that taken away and put at the mercy of random chance is not ok. In case you didn't read the post i'll say it again. HIS BOLA IS BUGGED!!! Let that sink in for a moment...alright now, since his bola is bugged there is a 50/50 chance that it lands now. Which just throws all the skills Rengar players have learned out the window. On top of this we can't even build the damage items we need late game because of statikk/RFC bug with his jump, which gimps our damage even more. So we are pretty much forced into buying a sub optimal crit item. Yes Rengar was able to kill the Jhin, but any assassin could have done what Rengar just did. Again, the bola isn't about skill anymore, it's literally up to chance whether it works properly or not. Rengar may or may not need damage adjustments, at this point I don't give a shit if they nerf his damage more, all I want are these game breaking bugs fixed.

LastHasagiMar 3, 20161 votes

you wanna see a vid of kogmaw instakilling a rengar?

GamblerOfLivesMar 2, 20162 votes

totally agree with the op. It's not about skill cap. it's the fact that i feels real buggy, sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't hit. Ye, they fcked him up.Used to love this guy. my main jungler. But, now, he feels so buggy that i can;t even play him properly. i find him unreliable bcs of that.It's not something that we as players can control.But, i guess, the bronze noobs voice is too strong