This Jungle is Just BAD!

Gale Aria·10/10/2014, 8:11:48 PM·8 votes·9,083 views

Ok this is some bull crap right here. There are what? 5 good junglers now? And buffs are too good from dragon and jungle pathing eather A: leaves you open to be counter jungled by not taking buff before your 3rd back. Or B: Die It's so bad Trundle can't even stay in the jungle for more then 3 camps. TRUNDLE with sustain only 2nd to Aatrox and Fiddlesticks . The smite cool down is way to long and the new hunter's buffs are just bad. The only good ones give smite a better CD and the one that stuns. (Hell, that might be the same one) Riot don't do this to us.

Riot needs to consult some regular summoners before doing something this big... There's theory and reality, the thing is that if you think something is a good idea, ask the people that are literally making it possible for you to do it

~Edgar A Pwn

41 Comments

RiotGhostcrawler10/10/2014, 8:29:03 PM19 votes

I would argue Jungler diversity isn't particularly good on live. What we are trying to do is having multiple axes on which a Jungler can be good so that the same champions don't keep rising to the top. One champ may be better at traditional camp clearing, but another might be better at counter jungling or even farming Feral Flare-style.

In any case, we will have to adjust the tuning on some champs for sure if we go through with these changes. It isn't worth taking those steps until we feel pretty solid about the changes themselves or the target will just be constantly moving. I would focus on your feedback on the system overall and not necessarily which champs have become better or worse at jungling. That information is still important, but it's easier to iterate on than the new jungle design overall.

Pokeprof10/10/2014, 9:03:44 PM3 votes

Dude, not only is it the FIRST ITERATION (Read, NONE OF THIS STUFF IS BALANCED AND THEY'RE STILL TRYING THINGS OUT) but from what I've seen so far all the junglers in the game can STILL jungle, but the vast majority of them (Read, those without a STUPID amount of health recovery of some kind) are forced to go back after their first clear. After you get the upgraded Jungle item, the jungle goes back to pretty much what it is on live in terms of letting anyone easily jungle in it. Even currently weak junglers like Sejuani are able to do it fine after they go back for that upgrade. Hell, old junglers who've been kicked out of the Jungle Diana might be able to come BACK to it with these changes.

Frankly, I kinda LIKE this idea. Not only does it take away from the stupidly strong early game ganking/pressure that's become dominate in the game without outright killing it, it actually GIVES the option of Counter Jungling, cuz that kinda doesn't exist what so ever in the current meta. Heck, Junglers now have a bit more choice in things they want to do now, which is a HUGE upgrade in general. Want to give a jungler with weak ganks a bit more reliable ganking ability Shyvana ? Or how about making one of the best counter Junglers in the game able to do it even MORE and have it actually MATTER Nunu ?

Honestly, I like the ideas that they're trying out, and this is PRESEASON. The things we see here are not 100% guaranteed to make it to live and even if they do, we ALL know for a fact that if Riot see's a problem with a set of changes or something becomes so stupidly dominate that it pushes everything out (I'm looking at you LeeSin ) Then they'll take measures to change this. So instead of reflexively fighting back against something, how about you try to learn the new set up BEFORE saying the entire things crap?

Pinker 1010/10/2014, 10:16:34 PM2 votes

TRUNDLE with sustain only 2nd to Aatrox and Fiddlesticks Wut

Anomander10/11/2014, 2:04:54 AM2 votes

The new jungle and jungle items are amazing. They make you think about which camps to smite how you can conserve your sustain and gives counter play. There is a somewhat limiting factor on champs who can currently clear but that can always be tweaked later.

On the PBE I have tried Jax, Sion Hecarim, Elise, Nocturne, WW, Diana, Nunu, Udyr, Skarner, Shaco and Nautilus. Out of all these the only hard clear was Nautilus. All of these champions had time to clear and time to gank sometimes even keep all mobs down while ganking. The sustain you get from the new jungler items is a bit lacking but overall the diversity is where it is at.

You can grab warrior enchant for those hard hitting champs like Sion or Hecarim. You can grab Juggernaut for those who need a bit of health like Skarner.(although I prefer this on SION and Hecarim but I usually play them tank.) The magus is a bit underwhelming but still gives ap jungles some love. And finally the Slayer enchant. This is a perfect item on jax nocturne and WW. Scaling att spd with on hit damage. I think I am in love.

The Smite options are also quite refreshing. Stalkers give poor gankers a nice slow and some true damage.(I think this was made for Shyvana) Poachers give a reduced CD on smite and increased gold for invaded jungle creeps.(Shaco Nunu Lee Sin all benefit.) Rangers Trailblazer drastically helps some slower clearers with AOE smite.(Sejuani Naut) Skirmishers is kinda a gank assist for those who already have sticking potential by giving a bit of damage on attack and vision when used on a player. (Xin Jarvan nocturne)

All in all I am very pleased with the thought put into this new jungle and with a bit of tweaks to some of the jungles this can be the best jungling season yet.

Merxamers10/10/2014, 8:52:19 PM1 votes

i'm sure it will eventually balance itself out, and it's still really early. it's just a little funny that they tried to open up the jungle to more champions last season by making it easier, and now they're making it harder again. I hope that the wrinkles will get ironed out!

Thats Frosty10/10/2014, 8:54:59 PM1 votes

I dont mind the jungle that much as it is. I do agree having some more diversity would open up things for junglers a little more, but most of the people who complain about jungle dont really play it that often. One thing that would be nice is one more additional jungle camp on double golem side, make make some room down in that huge chunk of trees by the 2nd inner turrets. Also, lots of champs are good in the jungle, it just comes down to timing and understanding where their jungler is as well

Raptamei10/10/2014, 8:19:53 PM1 votes

So then just pick Aatrox or Fiddles? You know Riot changes the meta and makes different champions viable in order to keep the game fresh. Move with them or get run over.

Sire Hippington10/11/2014, 11:36:30 PM1 votes

I managed to stay rather healthy for nearly as long as i wanted as morgana in the jungle after my first back, so i really have to wonder waht u are doing with Trundle.

The oonlything i agree on is that smite(atleast if u don'T go for the quick-smite option) has to high cd, especially on those that can be used vs champions. Smite is now a big part og ur jungleclear, and the buffs from big creeps are really great, so puting it on cd for a champion sets u far,far back in terms of jungleing. even with only jungling, i only had it up ever 3-4camps as morgana(i went for tribalizer, the aoe nuke+stun together with W allows really fast clear).

If u utilize the buffs from smiting, especially gromp(the big wraith on live) or the 2 golems, ur clear will really improve alot.

RadicalGG10/10/2014, 8:30:06 PM1 votes

I think this will let many junglers do better than before. The changes are not even here and everyone is already complaining?

Come on guys, you look like a 90 year old gandpa scare from the change.

So far I can't complain about ritos changes.

Merxamers10/10/2014, 8:38:51 PM1 votes

quite frankly i am worried about nautilus; the ANcient GOlem item was all that made him viable again, and now i have no clue how he's supposed to get his first clear in. Oh well, at least Cho might be good again

wolfax10/10/2014, 8:42:50 PM1 votes

Ok this is some bull crap right here. There are what? 5 good junglers now? And buffs are too good from dragon and jungle pathing eather A: leaves you open to be counter jungled by not taking buff before your 3rd back. Or B: Die It's so bad Trundle can't even stay in the jungle for more then 3 camps. TRUNDLE with sustain only 2nd to Aatrox and Fiddlesticks . The smite cool down is way to long and the new hunter's buffs are just bad. The only good ones give smite a better CD and the one that stuns. (Hell, that might be the same one) Riot don't do this to us.

Riot needs to consult some regular summoners before doing something this big... There's theory and reality, the thing is that if you think something is a good idea, ask the people that are literally making it possible for you to do it

~Edgar A Pwn

Have you actually played with the changes or are you saying this from just looking at the changes on paper?