How was Graves intended to work? Jhin seems to be strictly better at burst than Graves is. Insight?

KindBreaK·1/14/2016, 5:08:59 AM·1 votes·2,289 views

Graves is my most played ADC. I love his aggressive, upfront playstyle and how powerful you feel in lane and in short, explosive skirmishes.

However, ever since the rework, I've been having difficulty working with Graves. It's not issues with his kit, that seems fine. My biggest problem with him is that attack speed feels like an incredibly wasted, useless stat on him, yet you gain the most crit (a very valuable stat for Graves) on these attackspeed items.

Because of this, I either find myself building Graves similar to either:

  1. Old-school Draven with no crit and lots of AD, penetration, and lifesteal
  2. A pseudo-bruiser build with tanky items instead of crit, with black cleaver and maw
  3. Your typical ADC build, ending up with 70% crit, but also a seemingly almost wasted slot thanks to an AS item, which also reduces my burst thanks to the reduced AD

Each build has a different set of core items, but you are never able to itemize burst and crit with Graves properly. The AD heavy build requires you to get ghostblade, which works extremely well with his abilities, but you lack crit in the lategame.

The bruiser build allows you to stay in fights incredibly long, but your burst damage is decreased (and I'm pretty sure Black Cleaver only applies once per auto, instead of the intended once per pellet) and you generally don't have the same damage as an ADC

Building Graves as a typical ADC ends up having you to give up attack damage because you went for an attack speed item for crit, critical strike because you skipped a crit item (the AD crit items only give 40% together) for attack damage, or you're giving up in-combat effectiveness due to not getting ghostblade, an item that greatly increases Grave's effectiveness due to the mobility it provides.

So because Graves has difficulty finding good itemization, he has trouble fulfilling his role as a marksman. I am unsure whether I want to go essence reaver for 30% CDR, massive amounts of AD, critical strike, or tanky stats. Whenever I build to optimize for a few of these stats, I am massively punished in other regards (by losing mobility, damage, or in-fight effectiveness) which makes his strengths feel less powerful.

So if there's a Rioter out there or someone who knows more than me, how is Graves intended to be played and built? I feel like his playstyle is more or less alright, although he feels quite clunky to me at times, but I feel like if I could figure out his itemization, he would feel a lot more powerful and explosive as he did before.

Currently, Jhin can possibly burst as hard as Graves can with a single autoattack, but attackspeed is not a wasted stat on him at all, compared to Graves where the reload speed feels almost untouched by attackspeed. Jhin's kit also feels like it works together much better, because Graves oftentimes has to give up the reload on his E to simply get in range of a character, while you can't combo your Q and R together reliably because of the dash on his ultimate and the unreliable nature of Grave's damage, meaning doing a burst combo and not killing someone effectively dashes you out of the fight.

TL;DR: It feels like you can't itemize well on Graves ADC, so you don't feel effective or like you have a distinct role as a marksman. There is so much that I need to get on Graves to be effective. Building to supplement one area of his kit heavily punishes a different part of his kit. Jhin doesn't have this problem because attackspeed is better incorporated into his kit. In short, Graves rarely feels like I'm being effective with him.

3 Comments

LordKentravyon1/14/2016, 8:13:35 AM1 votes

item 3508 item 3031 item 3072 item 3006 item 3087 item 3036 /item 3033 Has worked well for me

item 3139 item 3156 item 3812 As situational items

I've had a blast playing him.

Wolfess4/4/2016, 11:48:27 AM1 votes

graves will literally kill any non-tanky champion in like one atk, one Q, and his ult. Maybe toss in a quick atk-resetting E for anyone with a half decent defensive item.

I had a game where we were still relatively early game, both our ADCS had just dorans blade still..... and one Q from graves chunked half our ADC's hp from full. It was utter bullshit.