Poacher's Dirk should just be removed at this point.

The Milky Bae·May 22, 2017·148 votes·4,394 views

Poacher's Dirk is quite literally useless. Why would I buy an item for 600 gold, then go risk my life once every 50 seconds to go kill an enemy jungler's camp. Just purely for the "great reward" of saving 700 gold. In total if you killed the enemy's camp perfectly at 50 seconds right as it refreshes, it would take you 2:30 seconds to transform Poacher's Dirk into Serrated Dirk.

Now not only do you have to risk going into the enemy's jungle every 50 seconds, you have to pray that every time, you not only find a camp that isn't already killed, you have to hope that the whole enemy team doesn't collapse on you and kill you instantly. Plus all the time you are gone, the enemy jungler could be stealing your blue!!

Basically, in short, Rito either needs to buff Poacher's Dirk in some form, or they might as well remove it.

116 Comments

SweedishGunnerMay 22, 201764 votes

Zephyr was probably bought more and we know where that went.

rtbf225618241May 22, 201712 votes

It is one with Janna's W now. In equillibrium. -_-

FilDaFunkMay 22, 20173 votes

So where's her tenacity, then?

MelledoneusMay 22, 201726 votes

The bird has tenacity. She doesn't.

rtbf225618241May 22, 20173 votes

sigh It was a joke about the name of Janna's W since they're the exact same.

FilDaFunkMay 22, 20177 votes

sigh I was extending the joke.

I forgive you.

5000000000000000May 23, 20172 votes

Wait! Janna's W is also called Zephyr, just like the deleted item!

######am i doing this right

RainbowIceeMay 22, 20176 votes

fuck that.. i want the item back! it was my 6th item.. i got it and sold boots.

NeameanMay 23, 20172 votes

Honestly I want them to add more items that wouldn't be bought by many.

Like a 2/3 Triforce, It would just be there for champ who don't really synergies well with all component of Triforce item 3044 + item 3101 = zephyr item 3057 + = a modern ionic spark + = a reverse item 3025 where it leave a speed zone instead

A lot would probably stick with triforce or other sheen, phage, stinger item but it would be nice to have options, even if it's not popular options.

Lestat S46May 23, 20173 votes

Removed Zephyr but for some ungodly Reason Ohmwrecker is still in the game.

Votable JesterMay 23, 20172 votes

It's because it has a player name in it or whatever.

EndlessSorcererMay 22, 201740 votes

I'm not going to lie here.

I completely forgot that item existed.

PunisherJBYMay 22, 20177 votes

I have never actually seen it in game. Not when i'm looking through the shop or when i press tab to see what everyone is building. Not once. This might be the first time i have seen what it looks like.

Oakleaf RangerMay 23, 20173 votes

its on Vi's recommended item items, I laughed when I saw it because

Vi isn't an assassin so why I want this?
That item is garbage and I felt bad for anyone who is new to this game and naively buys it.

morris1May 23, 20172 votes

Same with Lee Sin. Eww, get that item away from me.

RalanrMay 22, 201735 votes

Maybe just stop making items or effects that announce, "I AM GOING TO COUNTERJUNGLE YOU NOW!!!" In bright, neon letters?

Sire HippingtonMay 22, 201710 votes

Not saying poachers is a good item or even a good concept, but 'saveing 700 gold' IS a fucking huge reward, that's like FB+another kill

DatalessMay 22, 20178 votes

I've never even seen Poacher's Dirk built in any game I have played since it was added.

Sp33d Zer0May 22, 20177 votes

I like to use it. Then again, I like Cull, Refillable potions, and pink wards. Anything that provides a lot more value over time and can possibly accelerate my mid-late has always been a favorite for me.

Ben SharpioMay 22, 20172 votes

oh so youre that guy on the team that has the shittiest early/mid game because you like to buy the crappiest of items, and ultimately make your team 4 v 5 because you dont buy any actual items.

Sp33d Zer0May 22, 201714 votes

No, I'm the guy who sees what items are good in what spots, and buys accordingly. If I need to speed up to a mid/late game and it seems like there isn't a lot of fighting in my game, then I can afford to take it slow.

Those items are all actually good. The problem with dirk is that the champs who primarily want it want early aggression so they can snowball.

And here is a crazy thought, if I buy refillable, I get to my Zeal item sooner, because that is less gold I spend on pots. If I get a pink ward, I get to IE sooner because I don't die to that mid roam. If I get a cull, I have a little bit of extra sustain on top of my masteries and dorans, because crazy thought, rushing a long sword isn't the best choice in every game if you need to back early for some reason.

Subject 5May 22, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Corsair Sion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c1VtPbt4,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-05-22T18:06:43.565+0000)

oh so youre that guy on the team that has the shittiest early/mid game because you like to buy the crappiest of items, and ultimately make your team 4 v 5 because you dont buy any actual items.

Take note everybody, only play early game champions.

DU BaymaxMay 23, 20172 votes

oh so you're the bronze [zombie-brand-clap]

Ben SharpioMay 23, 20172 votes

lol no

Fallen ArtemisMay 24, 20173 votes

Sir you are wearing the Bronze icon atm

DU BaymaxMay 25, 20171 votes

if u aint bronze then dont say stupid shit that bronze players would say

alfavhunterMay 22, 20175 votes

how they should change it

getting a kill or assist reduces the remaining CD by 20 seconds

in other words, go take a camp, gank a lane or 2 and then you can go take another camp

edit: this is also a healthy item with this change still because it lowers their power to use gold on this item vs another option giving the enemy a chance to catch up to a lead, but if they fail to do so it pays off better for the person buying it

similar to item 1083

rtbf225618241May 22, 20171 votes

Then it would be useless on most Junglers anyway except ones like Lee and Ivern who can pull off early ganks and/or have enough to peel for themselves.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 22, 20172 votes

not useless. This item cost 600 only... even if u don't refresh the passive via gank if u manage to complete it, its great. This item is situationnal IMO.

rtbf225618241May 22, 20171 votes

In other words:You think this item is useful despite it being built less than Zephyr was in it's current state.

Well that sums up about how useful your comment was.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 22, 20172 votes

My words : when u buy this item its a bet, if u can evolve it, it make u save 500 gold.

GixiaMay 22, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Milky Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c1VtPbt4,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-22T16:12:11.767+0000)

Poacher's Dirk is quite literally useless. Why would I buy an item for 600 gold, then go risk my life once every 50 seconds to go kill an enemy jungler's camp. Just purely for the "great reward" of saving 700 gold. In total if you killed the enemy's camp perfectly at 50 seconds right as it refreshes, it would take you 2:30 seconds to transform Poacher's Dirk into Serrated Dirk.

You say that like 700 gold is not a significant amount of gold. Like... seriously? "Why would I buy an item for 600 gold that gives me 700 gold?" That's really a question you have to ask like you can't figure it out? Yes, it takes longer to turn a Poacher's Dirk into a Serrated Dirk than it takes to just buy a Serrated Dirk, but it's faster to turn a Poacher's Dirk into a Youmuu's/Duskblade/Edge of Night than it is to turn a normal Serrated Dirk into one. It's a risk-reward item. You're getting your Serrated Dirk slower so that you can finish it faster by being able to put that 700 gold you saved into the other components.

Now not only do you have to risk going into the enemy's jungle every 50 seconds, you have to pray that every time, you not only find a camp that isn't already killed, you have to hope that the whole enemy team doesn't collapse on you and kill you instantly. Plus all the time you are gone, the enemy jungler could be stealing your blue!!

All this tells me is that you don't understand how to counter jungle properly. That 'the enemy jungler could be stealing your blue' in particular is the worst damn excuse for anything. Yeah, he could be. He could also be taking blue while you're ganking, or he could be taking dragon or rift herald while you're taking your own blue. The enemy jungler isn't going to just sit on his ass twiddling his thumbs while you do things. In fact, as a jungler, part of your job for the team is to try and keep track of whether the other jungler is at any given point in time, either by tracking his jungle route or through wards. And hey, when you're dropping wards to scout for him, maybe you see a camp he hasn't taken yet. Assuming you're not bad, you should be taking that anyways just to deny him it, and if you have a poacher's dirk then that's an extra reward for doing it. Enemy team is starting to collapse on you? Good thing you were watching the minimap and those wards you just dropped so you know to quit what you're doing and get the hell out of there.

Subject 5May 22, 20174 votes

Talon Jungle is what I play often recently. I get 3 poachers and earn myself a bunch of gold using them and just ganking all day. I might lack EXP but Riot is like "You're good m8, just gank all day and you'll recover." so that's why I get poachers. He's real safe in the jungle because of his E

Tobias BracknerMay 22, 20174 votes

Git gud, counterjungling isn't that hard or scary

Legacy HydralphaMay 22, 20176 votes

But why risk counterjungling for an item you could easily just farm up for?

Tobias BracknerMay 22, 20175 votes

Combined with the counter jungling you could easily be 1000 gold ahead of the other jungler.

And if you are aware of how counterjungling works there is 0 risk.

Legacy HydralphaMay 22, 20172 votes

I don't disagree with the idea of counterjungling, it can be very useful, but why do it just for one item which you could buy anyways?

And depending on when and how you counterjungle, there's always the risk of running into the enemy jungler who might even be able to 1v1 you, or be close enough to an ally laner who will help them.

Tobias BracknerMay 22, 20174 votes

Homie you completely ignored my argument. Item + Counterjungle you get way ahead in gold. When you combine gold from their camps, gold they lost, and what you save on the dirk you are way ahead in gold.

And yeah it depends on how and when, so you counterjungle when it is safe. You need to pay attention to the game and not just automatically buy it every single game.

TwitchInMyPantsMay 22, 20173 votes

I notice they regularly make items for playing on the enemy jungle but they always have shitty stats. My biggest concern invading is getting caught and not escaping. AD won't help me with that, wards might, health might, but its not great outside of on Nunu. Where's an item with movespeed for being on the enemy side? Why isn't there something that actually acknowledges that going across the river from your jungle risks time which if your enemy is farming normally has to spare?

rtbf225618241May 22, 20173 votes

It should just randomly choose an enemy camp or one of the 2 buffs to transform it and only require one steal. That way it would actually give initiative.

TormentulaMay 22, 20173 votes

Its such a useless item.

Especially considering the fact that in the time it takes to transform poacher's into a dirk, you usually can just afford a dirk and that 600g is better spent on two long swords or if you don't have enough, a long sword and a control ward which gives more counter jungle pressure in itself.

Unless poacher's dirk literally becomes a jungle starting item, I see no reason to get it on any junglers besides Khazix Rengar Pantheon but even they don't rush dirk anymore (or build it at all for that matter) with their more recent builds.

Even if it was buffed, there aren't as many junglers as there are mid and top laners who actually build dirk.

It Hertz When IPMay 22, 20172 votes

I believe there used to be a jungle item that had this effect, and it was removed for the exact same reasons that OP is noting Poacher's Dirk is useless for.

crippler38May 22, 20173 votes

There used to be a smite upgrade that gave you more money and or speed from stealing camps.

ShinjusukeMay 22, 20173 votes

I love this item in theory.

It's just so goddamn useless right now.

If they dropped the wait time from 50 seconds to 30 seconds, or dropped the amount of steals required from 3 to 2, it'd be worth it.

"But then it'd be too gold efficient!" you might protest. Well then, unknown-and-totally-not-made-up commentor, my counter-argument is that this item takes up an item slot and forces a pretty damn hefty risk on you as the jungler, especially if the enemy team notices you bought it. Seems worth it to me.

DU BaymaxMay 23, 20172 votes

at least you're admitting it's a straw man in the post [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ShinjusukeMay 23, 20171 votes

Oh it's TOTALLY a straw man, it's just that it's probably the most obvious counter-argument so might as well answer it lol

DU BaymaxMay 25, 20171 votes

yeah that wasn't meant to be too mean spirited, mostly my post was intended to be comical

YambrinZMay 23, 20173 votes

What is really needed is other items similar to poachers dirk that offer other buildpaths. Like an item that costs X amount of gold that turns into a giants belt....or an ap item. The fact that there are very few junglers who can even use serrated in their builds means people just forget the item exists usually....which wouldnt be the case if EVERY jungler could build an item that was risk vs reward like that.