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A very simple solution to the dynamic/solo queue issue

MrPharmD·Jun 4, 2016·61 votes·2,934 views

Remove soloq players from playing with premades.

Teams of 5 vs Teams of 5 Teams of 2&3 groups vs Teams of 2&3 groups Teams of 5 solo players vs Teams of 5 solo players

There, now people can queue up and play with their friends AND solo players don't have to worry about playing with/against premades of 3 and 4, and occasionally 5. This doesn't exactly address the rating/ranking system, but it sure as hell fixes the main problem solo players have with dynamic queue. 5v5 queue times would be similar to what they were with ranked 5s obviously, and there are plenty enough of groups of 2 and 3 that the queue time wouldn't be crazy. One queue that satisfies both player bases.

Edit:

So some of you are concerned about queue times, specifically with the 2&3 groups. One person had a good idea of allowing 5s to play vs the groups of 2&3. I don't know, I don't seem to love this idea too much, but I would be more than pleased with it if it meant the other factors are done as well. And to be honest, no 3 man premade would have the right to complain about it being unfair to be against a 5 man since they don't have a problem being a trio against 5 solo players. So I would be fine with that.

About the 2&3 queue. It's hard to say whether or not the queues would skyrocket as a result. There are A LOT of people playing the game. A lot. And since you have to select multiple roles, I personally don't think it would be that big of an issue. One thing that could possibly be done is to let the solo player have the option of being ok to play with premades. This would allow some solo players to "fill" the 2&3 queues without forcing them to. I think this would shorten queue times.

89 Comments

BLYAT moon AkaliJun 4, 20167 votes

you can't possibly have thought about that for more that one second. because you'd have realized this would completely ruin the game.

YJRBqwXJcSJun 4, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI RealSuperSand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bwE9f6iP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-04T14:09:56.593+0000)

you can't possibly have thought about that for more that one second. because you'd have realized this would completely ruin the game.

how

MrPharmDJun 4, 20163 votes

It did only take me about second to come up with this solution. Seems pretty obvious. Can you explain what is so bad about it?

BLYAT moon AkaliJun 4, 20163 votes

without gapfiller solo players, there is no balance of skill whatsoever. also no position choice.

playing top supp jung premade? try finding mid adc premades of your skill level AND 2 complementing groups of enemy premades of your skill level. complete nonsense. especially in mid to high elo. you will never find 3 specific groups similar to yours.

"It did only take me about second to come up with this solution." - i believe that.

that's the same reason dynamic queue and solo queue can't coexist because soloqueue would just cannibalize dynamic queue because it cannot possibly work without solo players.

the only way to solve the "premade problem" for solo players is to remove dynamic queue for good. and riot does not want that.

MrPharmDJun 4, 20163 votes

without gapfiller solo players, there is no balance of skill whatsoever.

Huh, there would be just as much balance lol. The 3 players MMR will average out. You would then combine it with another premade with similar MMR.

playing top supp jung premade? try finding mid adc premades of your skill level AND 2 complementing groups of enemy premades of your skill level.

Given the massive amount of players in this game, not likely too difficult. Especially since you pick 2 roles, not 1.

It would seem as though you didn't think it through :)

BLYAT moon AkaliJun 4, 20161 votes

your idea of this game is beyond actual reality. if groups were abundant, queue time problems and mmr differences in games would not exist currently. but they do.

are we even talking about the same game here? it's about league of legends, right?

MrPharmDJun 4, 20161 votes

Lol, what are you so angry for? It is possible to have a discussion about things without getting so upset about it.

Regardless, most of the queue time bitching has come from higher elos where the pool is just simply too small. But they already pre-determined what they think the solution is for those players.

BLYAT moon AkaliJun 4, 20161 votes

it just amazes me how something so simple and obvious is not understood. like the fact that the odds of finding a silver 2 solo adc and a gold 5 solo jungler in the player pool are way higher than finding a group that consists of specifically a silver 2 adc AND a gold 5 jungler. it's not rocket science. and then you also want to find 4 of those specific groups at the same time to make 10 players out of that.

that would multiply current waiting times for say midlane players by...what...5-10 times? not even in high elo. that's just common sense, basic understanding of probability.

but let me break it down for you. imaginary example: currently there are 1000 silver 2 adcs in the player pool, waiting to play. and 800 gold 5 junglers. how many premade groups of specifically those 2 types would realistically be in the pool? maybe...20?

first scenario: you pick 2 solo people and can fill 800 teams with them. second scenario: you pick a group of 2 premades and can fill about 20 teams with them.

queue time goes up to about 4000% of current waiting time!

MrPharmDJun 4, 20161 votes

it just amazes me how something so simple and obvious is not understood. like the fact that the odds of finding a silver 2 solo adc and a gold 5 solo jungler in the player pool are way higher than finding a group that consists of specifically a silver 2 adc AND a gold 5 jungler. it's not rocket science. and then you also want to find 4 of those specific groups at the same time to make 10 players out of that.

I think the problem in your understanding, is the fact that you think the group must consist of EXACTLY a gold 5 jungler and a silver 2 ADC. That's simply just not how the match making system works. But ok. It's obvious this conversation is going nowhere because of that. So have a good day.

BLYAT moon AkaliJun 4, 20161 votes

well, you can just swap the gold 5 jungler for a plat 3 jungler in this group of 10 and see how that turns out... or better, a plat 3 mid. and pit that mid against a silver 5 mid while team mmr is roughly the same.

President Swa1nJun 5, 20162 votes

The best solution to this I have come across is having three sliders in DQ home screen, one for queue time, one for MMR and one for position priority. You would adjust these sliders to indicate how much you want to prioritize each aspect of the queue. Would give credit, but do not remember which post I saw this on.

shalexadeJun 5, 20163 votes

Wow, such rudeness and condescending from an imaginary example.

You state a 4000% increase like it's fact, then rage off like he's an idiot for not knowing that fact.

What if his idea would cause an increase in queue times of 5% for the folk involved?

You don't need to be rude when you have no actual idea on what the numbers are.

You can have a conversation and explain your thoughts like a grown up.

MrPharmDJun 5, 20161 votes

It's not even the rudeness that bothers me, I deal with plenty of rude people on a daily basis and just laugh at them. The issue I have is the inaccuracy of his claims. He is talking as those the groups have to SPECIFICALLY be exactly a gold 5 jungler and a silver 2 ADC. No where in anything is this even how it works lol. I'm not sure where he got this from.

KeevalroyJun 4, 20162 votes

Ruin the game? Because 5's would go back to the way they used to be, and solo queue would be massively populated as if hardly anything changed, I can almost guarantee that. That leaves the premade group queue, where you would be waiting forever to get into a game because a ranked system built to support premade queuing is conceptually flawed.

Gee, it's almost as if premades are the problem or something.

Sneakyy XDJun 4, 20164 votes

What about people who want to play as 4 or solo people who want to play with and against premades?

The only solution is to have two separate queues.

rtbf22147970Jun 4, 201624 votes

No solo player in their right mind wants to play with or against premades... The only caveat is no 4 man premades in ranked.

ErockandrollJun 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No solo player in their right mind wants to play with or against premades... The only caveat is no 4 man premades in ranked.

I wouldn't mind if it happened only on occasion. The Solo players way out number the number of people playing with friends.

Unless your saying that a) Riot's statistics about the frequency of being pair up with premades is completely wrong. or b) you don't care about likely hood, and feel that it's wrong in principle.

rtbf22147970Jun 5, 20161 votes

I'm gonna go with B for +22 Lp; final answer.

Michael SykesJun 5, 20161 votes

Agree with that. I am pretty sure that 4 guys can find a 5th. And when they wanna play as 4, they can tryhard in a normal game. But under the circumstances that are described in the post, dynamic queue would be less of a problem. Maybe Riot is already doing this, but it takes some time

MrPharmDJun 4, 20167 votes

Solo players don't want to play against premades lol. And most of them don't want to play with them either...or they would be seeking out such premades. 4 player premades could either seek a 5th or drop one. Not that inconvenient to pick up a player.

Sneakyy XDJun 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Solo players don't want to play against premades lol. And most of them don't want to play with them either...or they would be seeking out such premades.

{quoted}

No solo player in their right mind wants to play with or against premades... The only caveat is no 4 man premades in ranked.

If you truly believe that, you haven't been reading the forums.

{quoted}

Not that inconvenient to pick up a player.

Wow, I cannot believe you were able to type such hypocrisy without having your fingers break themselves off from your hands.

MrPharmDJun 4, 20166 votes

Wait, you're saying that if I believe that solo players don't want to play against premades I haven't been reading the forums that are full of players bitching about having to play against premades?

Also, can you explain how that's hypocritical?

AtheosisXJun 4, 20163 votes

If they share the same ladder it doesn't really fix the issue.

MrPharmDJun 4, 20161 votes

As I said, it wouldn't fix the rating system. But the biggest issue solo players seem to have is playing with/against premades, especially 4 man. This would fix that issue.

AtheosisXJun 4, 20161 votes

That's the bigger issue, but the ranking disparity and legal boosting is not a minor thing.

Nimble MantaJun 5, 20161 votes

This isn't a big deal, at all...

The only way to boost is to play with smurfs, which isn't legal. Ranking disparity isn't any different than people complaining about elo hell. "I'm a solo player, so my skill level is actually much higher than my rank."

MrPharmDJun 5, 20161 votes

Actually, there is no rule against playing with smurfs. I'm not sure why you think that, but there isn't. I'm not pretending that ranking isn't a big deal, because this system messed it up and it is very much a big deal. I just think the aggravation of solo players is a bigger issue. I don't see the rating system ever being fixed as long as they keep this dynamic queue, which they will.

Nimble MantaJun 5, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure smurfing, or at the very least using it to boost someone, is against the ToS. If not, then it needs to be, but that's not an issue with DQ it's an issue with riots rules.

No one has explained to me how solo que players are disadvantaged in this new system. I used to play with a 4 - 3 man premades, a couple of them went over to overwatch and now I'm playing mostly solo and duo que. With the 4 man premade my rank was stagnant, now without them I'm climbing at a pretty considerable rate. "Well then you must of been queing significantly weaker than you." Well, one was a gold I smurf (I was silver IV at the time) and the rest were either slightly above or at my skill level.

Of course, this is all anectodal evidence and means jack shit. But when my own expiriences tell me that solo que players aren't disadvantaged and I can't logically think of a reason why they would be, I'm inclinded to scoff when people on the boards make posts like yours are claiming "Solo que players are at a huge game changing disadvantage" without any other explanation other than the occasional invalid one of "The enemy premade 5 man turret dives me but the premade on my team does nothing and refuses to communicate."

MrPharmDJun 5, 20161 votes

When people complain about the ranking, it's typically them complaining that a solo player is in the same ladder as a premade of 3/4/5, because that doesn't seem right.

Nimble MantaJun 5, 20161 votes

How so? It's the same game, playing with friends or not. Preventing people too far apart from queing together along with weighting their elo for matchmaking prevents it from distorting someones "solo elo" too much.

LaughingStaplerJun 4, 20163 votes

Solo rankings shouldn't be polluted by 5s, 4s and 3s. Even duo is questionable.

EpicMusicJun 4, 20162 votes

QUEUE TIMES THO

MrPharmDJun 4, 20162 votes

I don't think queue times would increase that much, though. 5s would basically be the same as ranked 5s were. There are a shit ton of players, and given that 2s and 3s have to select more than 1 role, I don't think queue times would be that much different.

AtheosisXJun 4, 20163 votes

It absolutely would increase queue times as the system can no longer fill the cracks with solo players. You go from having possible combinations like 3+1+1, 2+2+1, and 4+1 to only having the possible combinations of 5 and 3+2. Having to find a three man group for every two man group would cause huge issues.

President Swa1nJun 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think queue times would increase that much, though.

"That much"

Also, kill off 4 man premades

MrPharmDJun 5, 20161 votes

I can see the concern. I am not sure that it would really increase it that much. There are a lot of people playing, and a lot of premades. I mean, we can only assume that rito is going to remove ranked 3s next. So there will be a slight influx of 3 man groups. Also, a potential option to this is to allow solo players the option if they don't mind playing with/against premades. That would provide some solo players to shorten queue times.

BG DeathJun 4, 20161 votes

Lol and who's gonna fill in the team for the "2&3" premade? last i checked there needed to be 5 players on each team

MrPharmDJun 4, 20164 votes

The 2's get teamed with the 3's. Sorry, thought I made that clear.

IGotScuttleCrabsJun 5, 20166 votes

You did. Some people are just oblivious

kaltenashesJun 4, 201611 votes

2+3=5

President Swa1nJun 5, 20169 votes

Best Math NA

MhihnjJun 5, 20162 votes

no, 2 + 3 is definitely Draven

Project RivenJun 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Remove soloq players from playing with premades.

Teams of 5 vs Teams of 5 Teams of 2&3 groups vs Teams of 2&3 groups Teams of 5 solo players vs Teams of 5 solo players

There, now people can queue up and play with their friends AND solo players don't have to worry about playing with/against premades of 3 and 4, and occasionally 5. This doesn't exactly address the rating/ranking system, but it sure as hell fixes the main problem solo players have with dynamic queue. 5v5 queue times would be similar to what they were with ranked 5s obviously, and there are plenty enough of groups of 2 and 3 that the queue time wouldn't be crazy. One queue that satisfies both player bases.

Your idea is flawed. What about premades 4's? Who will fill the last player spot. Yup, you guessed it, a solo Q player! DING DING DING DING DING!

Premade 5's queue time will be tremendously long, unless the team faces the same team over and over and over again.

Premade 2 and 3 will also have a long queue time. To solve this, Riot will require solo players to fill those gaps. DING DING DING DING DING!

VoidreyJun 4, 20162 votes

Maybe have a very smart bot take up the last spot, maybe? idk

President Swa1nJun 5, 20164 votes

Do not allow 4 man premades in Ranked. They alienate the Solo

kaltenashesJun 4, 20164 votes

premades of 4 not allowed and if you wanna get boosted, i mean play with friends you have to wait for a long queue.

It still the best solution

fk dyna q

VoidreyJun 4, 20161 votes

wont that make queue times even longer?

kaltenashesJun 4, 20162 votes

yep, thats the trade you'll have to make to get boosted, i mean play with friends

Papa SlothyJun 4, 20161 votes

the problem is that queue times would be much longer which really just makes it worse

Project RivenJun 4, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Papa Slothy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bwE9f6iP,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-06-04T22:49:23.547+0000)

the problem is that queue times would be much longer which really just makes it worse

This is only based on your assumption. You don't know for a fact. Even if it's true, it possibly may not be based only on the queue compositions. Other factors can possibly be role selection and MMR balancing.

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