Boards›Gameplay

How to balance Zed - Reward good players , punish bad ones. Make this happen - upvote.

Call Me Ålex··22 votes·6,426 views

So as we all know Zed is a trash tier champion for quite some time now , no I'm not talking about you goldies complaining he's insanely broken or something , talking about high elo players. Zed has been in a rough spot for years with Riot seemingly unable to find a balance to his kit. Today we will see what defines Zed as an assassin and what his purpose is and how he should function in my opinion - also balance ideas that sound very good for balancing him in low and high elo at the same time.

Zed struggles versus armor severely. I'm talking literally even ninja tabi screwing him and with lethality being useless if you're not 2 levels ahead for effectiveness , it's hard to find a work-around to his either useless kit or dominating kit. I believe I have found a solution to it by adjusting the Following:

Reduce his ult base damage and scaling significantly > Therefore lower skilled players with the champion cannot oneshot others by a simple R E auto combo. Add a new effect: Whenever zed manages to hit a Shuriken (Q) Amplify the damage by a flat % (15-20% ex.) therefore rewarding players that can actually hit his abilities on the targets. Add new effect: If zed hits the target with ALL 3 Q's respectively , translating into 45-60% more ( based on following shurikens). dmg on ult > 30-40% of the damage deal is converted into true damage - giving Zed a chance to win against armored or heavily armored opponents IF he hits his Q's(these numbers are just examples not actual chances , I'm sure riot will find the right math to it.)

Other ideas - Reduce the damage on his Q slightly , but allow it to do bonus damage if he hits both of them , letting him duel his lane with actual skillshots that matter and reward him for good play. (I'm talking a slight bonus not insane damage)

Please give me feedback and upvote this so that hopefully Riot will address possible changes.Zed make Zed Great again , reward skilled players , punish bad ones. EDIT: His purpose is to destroy champions 1v1 , yet he can't do that due to all the armor , shields , zhonyas ,heals and all that.

81 Comments

The thigh guy11 votes

So you want him to delete tanks even harder? Mkay

Call Me Ålex2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ca9xt5Naxk - is this what you call deleting tanks ? she was 0/2 i was 3/1 with youmuu and dusk all she had was hp jungle item and tabis?

The thigh guy8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:11:26.156+0000)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ca9xt5Naxk - is this what you call deleting tanks ? she was 0/2 i was 3/1 with youmuu and dusk all she had was hp jungle item and tabis?

You do realize she still had her passive, and got aftershocks off on you right? Do you realize how much she got in stats. And no sejuani is not the average.

Hi Its Scirocco2 votes

NO, Zed main want to press r on target that has (sejau passive + afterchock + at least on that stage of game, she has 2 item) 260 armor and insta kill him for full Hp. xD Doesnt work like that buddy, armor is counter to Ad, u build ad they build armor, Thats how game work or shoud work If assasin can 100 to 0 tanks, then squichie become unplayble

FéliXXX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:10:16.858+0000)

So you want him to delete tanks even harder? Mkay

https://youtu.be/6YGhuPpraiQ

Sir Saltarin1 votes

So that's the item that mage mains on the Boards call trash right ?

item 3191

Seems about fine.

FéliXXX1 votes

150% gold efficiency item btw

The Ecdysiast7 votes

Except... it already works that way. Missing means you do less damage.

Call Me Ålex2 votes

I'm talking about more damage depending on the Q's and added True dmg to deal with the armor problem. Deal little damage if missing, but deal insane damage if hitting all 3 for example.

The Ecdysiast9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:02:30.239+0000)

I'm talking about more damage depending on the Q's and added True dmg to deal with the armor problem. Deal little damage if missing, but deal insane damage if hitting all 3 for example.

Armor... "problem"? There isn't an armor problem. Lethality takes care of that. And you aren't supposed to be able to assassinate someone with armor.

It already does do insane damage. You're just asking that he get a strength he's not supposed to have. You pick an assassin knowing you won't be the one taking down tanks.

Call Me Ålex3 votes

Tanks are allowed to int and still be more viable than an assassin, they aren't punished for anything. Lethality is bad especially if you're behind a level or two. Meanwhile mages get flat penetration regardless of anything. Even from F-in boots.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:13:49.094+0000)

Tanks are allowed to int and still be more viable than an assassin, they aren't punished for anything. Lethality is bad especially if you're behind a level or two. Meanwhile mages get flat penetration regardless of anything. Even from F-in boots.

That's just outright false. Tanks need to be able to perform their function even from behind because their extremely weak dueling and farming is pretty much guaranteed to put them behind.

Call Me Ålex5 votes

Is that so ? why are champions like Maokai , Sejuani , Malphite , Orn, Sion ,Shen Cho'gath , etc. Able to absolutely destroy squishy champions 1v1 completely onesided? they literally walk up to you and eventually kill you , with you having nothing to do to stop them? I've seen 0/7 sion destroy a 5/1 riven by simply being next to her and hitting her with autos and grasp?

The Ecdysiast5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:29:21.731+0000)

Is that so ? why are champions like Maokai , Sejuani , Malphite , Orn, Sion ,Shen Cho'gath , etc. Able to absolutely destroy squishy champions 1v1 completely onesided? they literally walk up to you and eventually kill you , with you having nothing to do to stop them? I've seen 0/7 sion destroy a 5/1 riven by simply being next to her and hitting her with autos and grasp?

Squishy

Because assassins don't belong at top. And once again, assassins aren't supposed to be able to take down tanks.

Sion has higher than normal damage because his Q needs to be charged for its hard cc. (and stating that anecdotal evidence with no actual proof doesn't really do much for you)

Daddy Ants6 votes

Armor is meant to counter Zed and Talon.

Deal with it.

FéliXXX4 votes

{quoted}

Armor is meant to counter Zed and Talon.

Deal with it.

its lethality counter part but strongeer thats the problem 1100 g in armor is way better than 1100 g in lethality and thats not good but thats not the whole issue since champs like kha do dmg even if the enemy has armor cos thats his job zed base dmg is too low and his cds are too high

InsaneBardPlayer7 votes

{quoted}

Armor is meant to counter Zed and Talon.

Deal with it.

the vayne player talking about counterplay is gigayikes. Atleast zed has to hit something , vayne is braindead.

Hawthorn Tree5 votes

Don't try to reason with these people. LL Stylish has been saying that Zed is garbage for the longest time, but the silvers on these Boards apparently know balancing and the state of Zed better than LL.

Call Me Ålex4 votes

Exactly. None of them have been in a high elo game where people know what they're doing , absolutely making zed USELESS, not by outplaying or anything , but by simply spending a tiny bit of gold to buy armor and poof zed is not in the game anymore.

Hawthorn Tree3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:31:22.819+0000)

Exactly. None of them have been in a high elo game where people know what they're doing , absolutely making zed USELESS, not by outplaying or anything , but by simply spending a tiny bit of gold to buy armor and poof zed is not in the game anymore.

I just finished getting to gold on this new account, and I can confirm that barely anyone even builds a Seekers against my Talon. And these people who rush a full Ludens into me usually have already died twice to me by level 6. These are the very same people who are complaining about damage and calling for assassin nerfs.

Call Me Ålex4 votes

Yet later on they are way more useful than you , not because they are good , but because their class is favored.

Hawthorn Tree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:40:09.541+0000)

Yet later on they are way more useful than you , not because they are good , but because their class is favored.

tbh I can live with mages outscaling us assassins. However, all the most recent patches have been erasing our early game advantage too. Multiple Domination page nerfs, nerfs to individual assassins, flat armor in runes...the list keeps going, and it doesn't fucking stop, lol.

Call Me Ålex2 votes

It's true. AD assassins are getting crapped on with each patch. Meanwhile champions like Akali , Irelia Sylas , Aatrox are allowed to be broken FOR MONTHS and riot just sitting on their ass doing nothing.

Hawthorn Tree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T22:47:54.042+0000)

It's true. AD assassins are getting crapped on with each patch. Meanwhile champions like Akali , Irelia Sylas , Aatrox are allowed to be broken FOR MONTHS and riot just sitting on their ass doing nothing.

It's because most of the playerbase are like Silver or below, so no matter how stupid they are, Riot still has to pander to them with their balancing. Otherwise they lose out on the $$$, because those players can't be bothered to actually learn the game and ragequit.

Call Me Ålex2 votes

It's just sickening that the Riot from season 3 turned into "please the casual average pleb to buy our skins and simplify champions"

Hawthorn Tree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T23:02:07.795+0000)

It's just sickening that the Riot from season 3 turned into "please the casual average pleb to buy our skins and simplify champions"

tbh we should just be glad that Riot isn't pulling a Blizzard and making a mobile League game lmao.

Call Me Ålex2 votes

They should pull a Telltale , they kinda deserve it at this point.

Hawthorn Tree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Ålex,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=apHIQrsz,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T23:06:17.772+0000)

They should pull a Telltale , they kinda deserve it at this point.

lol ur not wrong tbh

JhinuinelyDunk1 votes

Aatrox wasnt ever broken in soloq and is in sucks balls now

Anchorit Wracaj5 votes

Okay..lets see current state of the Zed. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/zed/diamond Zed is at 50.3% win rate,19.7 BAN RATE,8.6 pick rate. If he needs "adjusments" and if needs more power.Than following champions need it EVEN MORE THEN ZED. Mundo,Skarner,kayle,gnar,aurelion sol,kog maw,mordekaiser,amumu,azir,singed,cho gath,warwick,taric,varus,volibear,swain,syhvana,tahm kench,wukong,illaoi,ashe,hecarim,kalista,missfortune,rumble,garen,teemo,nautiluss,ornn,shen,neeko,rakan,diana,anivia,corki,olaf,ivern,zac,galio,tryndamere,brand,poppy.nocturne,pantheon,veigar,master yi,malphite,syndra.gankplank,nasus,rammus,kled,twisted fate,xayah,elise,malzahar,ekko,twitch,leona,orianna,viktor,ryze,xerath,kennen,fiora,graves,renekton,gragas,braum,leblanc,tristana,jhin,karma,kayn,alistar,irelia,sejuani,soraka,sion,jayce,urgot,lulu. So he have better winrate/banrate/pick rate than all of this champions.In Diamond. So yeah,Zed can get changes when every single of this champions gets buffed or adjusted.Till then,he can get only nerfs. Enjoy :)

LeftyRaydy1 votes

{quoted}

Okay..lets see current state of the Zed. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/zed/diamond Zed is at 50.3% win rate,19.7 BAN RATE,8.6 pick rate. If he needs "adjusments" and if needs more power.Than following champions need it EVEN MORE THEN ZED. Mundo,Skarner,kayle,gnar,aurelion sol,kog maw,mordekaiser,amumu,azir,singed,cho gath,warwick,taric,varus,volibear,swain,syhvana,tahm kench,wukong,illaoi,ashe,hecarim,kalista,missfortune,rumble,garen,teemo,nautiluss,ornn,shen,neeko,rakan,diana,anivia,corki,olaf,ivern,zac,galio,tryndamere,brand,poppy.nocturne,pantheon,veigar,master yi,malphite,syndra.gankplank,nasus,rammus,kled,twisted fate,xayah,elise,malzahar,ekko,twitch,leona,orianna,viktor,ryze,xerath,kennen,fiora,graves,renekton,gragas,braum,leblanc,tristana,jhin,karma,kayn,alistar,irelia,sejuani,soraka,sion,jayce,urgot,lulu. So he have better winrate/banrate/pick rate than all of this champions.In Diamond. So yeah,Zed can get changes when every single of this champions gets buffed or adjusted.Till then,he can get only nerfs. Enjoy :)

These baby's only know how to cry about their champ not being OP. Freaking Zed needing buffs is laughable especially with him Popularity (8% in Diamond with a 50.3% WR)

Anchorit Wracaj1 votes

{quoted}

These baby's only know how to cry about their champ not being OP. Freaking Zed needing buffs is laughable especially with him Popularity (8% in Diamond with a 50.3% WR)

Basically,Zed needs nerf 50.3% win rate,20% ban rate,8.6% pick rate.. Yeah...nerf the Zed please.

LeftyRaydy1 votes

Nerfs no he needs a rework.

0XFallen1 votes

He needs adjustments, not buffs, winrate isnt anything as well as playrate, have to look at the overall zed games on the account too, play rate is even lower as his banrate is so high, especially low elo

fire2633 votes

Like the idea of doing more damage for hitting more Q's, but no to the true damage one. He is not intended to kill tanks, and should not be able to kill tanks, as this will just make zed pretty much good against everyone, and will just make him pick or ban pretty much. There are some changes/buffs that I would like to see for Zed though to hopefully make him good, but not too broken in low elo. (Just a list of ideas, not suggesting add all of these lol)

  • Let Zed choose which way he appears out of his ult (hovering your mouse over which direction you want him to appear)
  • Buff Zeds energy refund for hitting more Q's, make him run out if he's missing but allow him to stay in fights if he's hitting his Q's, as I find energy to be a pretty big problem on him.
  • Give his ult a mutilator effect on his target (The one Aatrox passive gives, reduces shielding and healing by 45% on the target)
  • Revert ult cooldown buff, but decrease the cooldown on W.
  • Give his ult an effect that reduces target armor by a flat amount for the 3 seconds before the death mark pops. Just throwing some ideas around, I don't think he needs much damage increase as currently it's fine, he just needs some utility to make him a bit more viable. He also should not get any %armor reduction as that kind of just invalidates tanks, but rather get flat armor reduction to destroy squishies like he was designed too.
0XFallen3 votes

As a Zed main since he came out STRAIGHT NO. That will only make him worse in higher elo. He is already a hit all Qs or nothing and becoming more of a caster than an assassin.

My take:

Make him stronger early, as that is the main problem and "weaker" by stats I mean late game

nerf his ult damage late game

Decrease W cd early, or decrease W cd if you swap to your shadow as he "collects" the shadow

Increase Q damage lvl one, its non existent

Reduce E energy cost in late game, everyone says energy is busted but we know that energyusers have way more problems in extended fights after one combo and mana issues are no more with manaflowband, except for the likes of anivia. It got nerfed with reduced cd and less damage with no energy compensation.

Implement new passiv on W, mimicks abilities, dealing 50% of that ability, but increases to 100% by ranking up, allows us to be more assassins, better melee stats abilities that arent only balanced around triple Qs during Ult. That would also mean that he will have less waveclear early game.

Ben SwoIo3 votes

I'm so down for a Zed change. I do not like seeing low skilled Zed players think that they are good with him just because they smash R E AA but miss both damn shurikens. I've made bad Zed players miss a lot of combos but they still blow me up, which is lame.

I love Zed as he was my first champion. I'd rather be rewarded for playing him properly and ACTUALLY being good with him than some false sense of skill due to an easy to use R E AA.

0XFallen1 votes

Thats because of his trash early were he can only farm until he oneshots everyone because they only buffed his late game ton compensate his early

Sir Saltarin3 votes

How to balance Zed - Reward good players , punish bad ones

So, leave him as he is ?

There are way more problematic champs than Zed balance wise, leave him alone.

Yenn2 votes

Landing your Q's doesn't have anything to do with being a 'good' player.

Melee mids and casters who need to get into auto range to CS cannot avoid Zed's W + E + Q combo, and it dumpsters 50-60% of their health. Zed does not need more reward for literally pressing all of his buttons at once just because someone got in range to hit a caster (or melee) minion.

0XFallen1 votes

Thats so wrong, late game perhaps but in early his full combo against melee in a wave does about 100 damage pre 6. also easy jukable combo , dodge 1 q and he wont deal anydmg without electrocute and cant even farm in lane for 22 seconds

IP Masquerena2 votes

I'll get downvotes, but what ever.

Zed currently has a 50% win rate with a 10% play rate (depending on site) in D+ while M+ shows his (again depending on site) anywhere between 53% and 56%.

50% win rate at that pick rate is too high for a "high skill champ"

Those aren't "he's in a bad spot for high elo". The only place where he's bad in pro play, but other than Akali and LeBlanc, assassins are bad there by default and only get picked when they are borderline overpowered.

0XFallen1 votes

He needs adjustments, not buffs, winrate isnt anything as well as playrate, have to look at the overall zed games on the account too, play rate is even lower as his banrate is so high, especially low elo

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

I'd instead suggest to greatly increase Zed's damage from his shadow-mimicked abilities, but also greatly increase the energy cost of abilities in proportion to the number of shadows present (and give Zed an energy refund in proportion to the number of shadows that hit with the mimicked spell). That way if you're a good zed and land a full combo with 3 shadows you are basically guaranteed to delete your target. But if you whiff the Q for example you are suddenly out of energy and can't finish the combo.

0XFallen1 votes

That only makes him worse in high elo. Also you wont be even able to do a full combo with more costs.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Also you wont be even able to do a full combo with more costs.

Not if landing Q with all your shadows gave you a full refund.

The point is that if Zed is bad and whiffs his skillshots he can't do the full combo. But you buff his damage so that if he lands the full combo it does more.

0XFallen1 votes

The thing is he is already almost ooe with WEQ, if you increase it he wont be able to do so. I like that he might be a teamfight monster then, but I want the old duelist zed back

LeftyRaydy1 votes

LOL Zed another Zed thread lets look at Diamond + on League of graphs LINK BELOW FOR PROOF https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/diamond

Zed Mid 8.6% PLAY RATE 50.3% WIN RATE 19.7% BAN RATE 7.8 / 5.6 / 4.9 Average KDA

Oh God such Garbage tier please buff zed! Zed mains can suck it I am tired of hearing about ZED getting buffs he needs a REWORK to allow him not to control the whole laning phase. If he doesnt want to fight he doesnt have to just farm with Q, Is safe as long as he only uses shadow when wave is pushing towards him, Can sit back and poke until he gets you low enough to swap shadow and ignite to kill you, and dont even get me started on that dumb ultimate I mean it sucks its countered by Zhonya's I will agree but if you dont have zhonya's he just kills you no problem.

0XFallen1 votes

Can you even read, its how to balance him not how to buff him, he is currently not fun to play or play against because he does nothing until lategame where he one shots everyone

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Call Me Ålex

AP items and AP champs in general. - NERF THEM ALREADY.
Gameplay29 comments
15
votes
So when is Sylas getting the nerfs? in 6 or maybe 8 months ? like Akali?
Gameplay8 comments
2
votes