thoughts on how to remove zed's easy lane safety and harass.

Wolfess··4 votes·565 views

there was another zed thread that seemed to touch upon him being unhealthy compared to other assassins, mainly because he has such easy escapes and harass, and I agree. Other champs usually have to blow their all-in ability to initiate and try to get the kill, whereas zed initiates with his ult and can not only displace himself back to the usually safe, original location where he cast it, but even has his W to "juke" others further while the delayed damage from his ult usually and often seals the deal on the target. Not to mention he works on energy and not mana, which adds more to his annoyance level since he'll never really have to worry about running out of mana to harass or farm with.

So, I had a few ideas on where to really cut some of his freebie access to damage that people abuse and make zed have to make actual decisions or make use of better positioning to be able to make use of his assassination kit.

A lot of zed's power in laning comes from free Q pokes that pass through all targets that he can repeat over and over due to energy. They should remove the ability to pass through all targets and make it so that it passes through one target and can hit a second, that way zed has to actually think about how to use his Q better with good positioning while laning instead of indiscriminately spamming it for free damage.

Another thing I thought would be good is to change his R from a targeted skill to a ground-target placement skill. Anther thing that makes zed annoying is that even if you move away when he ults, the animation will follow you until he appears, meaning he will always appear behind you. Making it a ground-target will allow people to not only be able to escape, but perhaps also make it so that if he did not hit a champion within the aoe range with the skill, he does not create a shadow to R back to, taking way a lot of his free escape. However, in order to compensate this being a nerf to his ult, I think he should be able to mark ALL champions that are within the area's aoe effect, meaning that a good zed player would be able to potentially mark more than one good target and possibly assassinate them both if he also uses his W's displacement to get the second and probably youmuu's moev speed buff, cuz we all know zed is going to build youmuu

There are obviously going to be zed mains and circlejerks who will downvote this, but what I really want is an actual discussion of where zed's abilities are over the line as an assassin and where does he have too much safety in his kit where people feel like they can just go in for the kill and not feel like there are any real drawbacks or penalties in attempting to do so.

4 Comments

SeargentAnus2 votes

Zed is one of the easiest assassins to counterplay. His ult will always put him behind you meaning if you know the timing you have a 100% chance to land CC, and a CCed assassin is a dead assassin. His poke is very poor unless he uses his w. By using his W he allows for the enemy lane opponent to heavily zone him. His pre lvl 3 is also one of the worst in the game. He can poke at you, but he will have to take heavy harass/trades in a ranged dominated lane to properly CS.

Wolfess1 votes

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Zed is one of the easiest assassins to counterplay. His ult will always put him behind you meaning if you know the timing you have a 100% chance to land CC, and a CCed assassin is a dead assassin. His poke is very poor unless he uses his w. By using his W he allows for the enemy lane opponent to heavily zone him. His pre lvl 3 is also one of the worst in the game. He can poke at you, but he will have to take heavy harass/trades in a ranged dominated lane to properly CS.

Early in the game it's not too easy to burst someone down from 100-0 that easily, they'd have to have some bit of health missing to do that much damage and if the complete burst is missed, he can return to a shadow for safety, immediately putting a large distance between himself and the opponent. Of course there are some champs that do have a good chunk of crowd control that will really annoy the hell out of zed, like Lissandra who can root in an aoe around her and even has her stasis ult after that which is a very prime opportunity for a jungler to come in and slap him for being overconfident, though most mid champs won't have a CC that out-lasts his shadow's timer.

and no, he doesn't really need to take heavy harass to properly CS, remember that his energy refills quite quickly, making using abilities to farm easier for him than champs with mana that do not have built-in mana sustaining abilities built in their kit.

fééd l0rd1 votes

Zed is a really fair assassin. He has the tools to outplay you but you also have the tools to outplay him. Dodge his shuriken, use your escape AFTER he spawned behind you. Cleanse his ultimate with qss or zhonias his ultimate entirely. He may have a strong and obnoxious lane but if we take power off his laning phase he will need huge compensations. What can a Zed do when the adc has qss while the ap carry and supporter have a zhonias? Basically nothing but splitpush which isn't enough. This means he needs a strong laning phase so he can snowball and do something before people are getting counter items.

If they would weaken his laning they had to weaken the counterplay to his assassination.

Wolfess1 votes

[{quoted}](name=fééd l0rd,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aBVrq8BF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-03T18:24:58.556+0000)

Zed is a really fair assassin. He has the tools to outplay you but you also have the tools to outplay him. Dodge his shuriken, use your escape AFTER he spawned behind you. Cleanse his ultimate with qss or zhonias his ultimate entirely. He may have a strong and obnoxious lane but if we take power off his laning phase he will need huge compensations. What can a Zed do when the adc has qss while the ap carry and supporter have a zhonias? Basically nothing but splitpush which isn't enough. This means he needs a strong laning phase so he can snowball and do something before people are getting counter items.

If they would weaken his laning they had to weaken the counterplay to his assassination.

I don't think it's right to rely on items alone as counterplay for a champion's kit. Sure they may work, but remember that having the items off cooldown is exactly when you need them is also very situational. You may need to blow zhonyas or qss to escape some other threat or CC. Plus a lot of champs won't have these items fully ready upon hitting 6. Also remember that we're talking about assassination, where a champ has to offer a level of risk to take out their target. When Talon, Kha, or even Kat go in to assassinate the target, they put themselves on the spot by not having any meaningful escapes. Kha and Kat can get their resets, but that's after they manage to successfully get a kill. If they don't get a kill, they're stuck in a regular fight waiting for cooldowns. Talon even worse, he doesn't get resets though his ult can serve as his escape, but will give away his location after coming out of stealth on where his blades move to. Even if you CC zed, he can still replace his shadow and has W to get away. If you stun kat, talon, or kha under your tower while they try to assassinate you, they're going to get slapped, zed can just R back out as soon as the stun lifts.

When you decide to assassinate, you should have to commit, it should be high risk with high rewards.

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