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Talon needs an ACTUAL nerf. Removing his silence for a slow only increased his damage output.

Blumpkin Nation··2 votes·2,533 views

I don't know the mastery changes for S5, but the extra % damage you put in really gave his already innate 3-15% damage increase a huge buff.

You get a total of 16% from masteries, one of which requires you to have your target below 50% health. So lets say 13%. Combined with his E, you get 19-28% extra damage on your spells. THEN you add in his extra 10% from his passive, you get 29-38% extra damage on your basic attacks. That's an absurdly large amount of extra damage for basically doing nothing. He already has 2 slows, the silence never proc'd off his passive. But with that change, you actually get more damage off when you E/Q/W/AA/ or whatever combo you choose to use.

Why should talon get ANY free damage increase from his spells when he has a reveal, gap-closer, 350 (350 on a champ with a fucking auto target blink???) movement speed, stealth, an AA reset in his Q, AND low cool downs.

No. Talon is not a fun champion to play against as anyone because all you have to do is rush Brut and LW and you pretty much 100-0 anyone who doesn't have 3k health. Talon is not a fun champion to play against, especially in 3's (And you've already nerfed other champions for that mode, i.e. Cass, Teemo, Sona) in the past. So he needs to be gutted if you don't remove the free % from masteries.

Talon needs to be reworked or nerfed because getting all that free damage combined with being an Assassin/Burst/AD user, is just crazy nonsensical.

10 Comments

forist3 votes

The mis-information in this post is giving me a headache, talon needs buffs not nerfs.

Blumpkin Nation2 votes

No, he does NOT. Removing his silence and giving him a slow gave him an extra 10% ensured damage when using his E. Combining the increase % damages from Masteries and his E, he gets 20%+ extra damage on spell useage, and 30%+ on basic attacks.

No champion should have that amount of extra damage. Not to mention he gets an AA reset to further use his damage on Q and further AA's outside his massive burst.

He needs nerfs if they don't change the masteries to remove the extra % damage.

Maester Seymour2 votes

Talon is a melee "midlaner" assassin. Zed can do all the things you mentioned here much better, and much more consistenly. It is very easy to outplay a Talon especially without his silence and make all this "omgwowsodmg" things you're spouting completely irrelevant.

I won't attempt to convince you fo what I'm saying since this is a QQ thread after you got pwnd, I'll just say this:

If you think this champ is OP and not balanced well by Riot, play and master him yourself and use this "unbalance" to your advantage. ***

But you're not gonna do that, cos Talon is trash tier compared to others in the same category and deep down you know that, don't you?

TLDR: Play him or wipe your item 3070 item 3070 and move on

Raptamei1 votes

No, he does NOT. Removing his silence and giving him a slow gave him an extra 10% ensured damage when using his E.

On ONE attack. He does about 30 more damage with his full build.

forist3 votes

Knew it, don't post on here to whine about a bad game you had. Talon is a trash tier champ atm. If anything he needs buffs, i don't wanna recycle old explanations, but just check how many threads he's been getting recently about how bad the nerf to his e was, and how he is much more unviable than he already was before.

SouL1ess2 votes

Mastery bonuses don't stack additively, nor does Talon's Cutthroat.

Where are you getting 16% from?

Edit: even adding them all up I don't get 16%. What were your maths?

Edit 2: actually can you show math for how does Talon kill someone with only brut and last whisper, assuming the enemy has 2500 health and 20 armor?

Blumpkin Nation1 votes

Spell Weaving and Blade weaving stack. Up to 3 times (1% each stack). So 3 from both of those are 6%.

As a Melee champ he gets 2% damage given from Double-Edged Sword. 8%

5% from Executioner. 13%

Havoc gives you 3%; 16% from masteries.

Normal damage deal from all sources (Talon only) comes to; 10%

On top of his Cutthroat, he gets 13-23% (based on cutthroat rank) extra damage from all his sources.

3% from Spell Weaving.

10% from his passive, assuming you have the target slowed from E/W; 3% added from Blade Weaving = 13%

So his total combined extra % damage at max is going to be around 46% increase damage if he pulls off his combo, which is relatively easy to do.

edit; maybe I overreacted with the health and armor bit, but as someone with 2000 health and 180 armor, I shouldn't be bursted down by talon in ONE go just because he has Last Whisper and Brut>Youmou. Granted, this is his ultimate missing- I took a 1,000 damage Q from talon. Why the hell is that even a thing? That's excluding the DoT it gives.

SouL1ess1 votes

Because critical strike is a thing and Talon uses it well...

Judging by 1000 damage with only those items, he probably hit you twice with Q.

Deathrecap already include the DoT in it regardless of if it went the full duration.

Edit: spell weaving gets up to 3% spell damage, blade weaving gets up to 3% autoattack damage. They don't stack together to give 6% spell damage.

Edit: no I mean...Talon's combo damage with one rotation of his spells doesn't even reach 2000 raw damage (damage before resistances) if he only has Brut and LW, so it's basically impossible for him to kill you within one combo. You didn't mention he had Ghostblade, and you may have taken too many crits from Talon, resulting in the combo damage imbalance....but I don't have any proof of that happening = = 15% crit is too small of a chance to rely on, even for just 2 hits.

You can do the damage calculations yourself. Assuming no critical hits, AA does (1.0*BaseAD)+(1.0*Bonus AD), Q does (150)+(1.0*Base AD)+(1.3*Bonus AD)+(50+1.0*Bonus AD bleed), W does 260+(1.2*Bonus AD), E is 1.15% increased modifier, R is 440 + (1.5*Bonus AD). At this point, Talon has below 100 bonus AD, so he gets at most 1750 damage in that combo. Lets say he dealt an extra 150 damage with mercy and whatever else (Hahahahahahahaha). That is still 1900 damage before resistances.

What I honestly think is faulty here is additive mastery damage multipliers. IMO, they are multiplicative with each other, not additive with each other.

Constantine221 votes

Wait what???? Are you serious? You trying to compare old Talon with the silence that could do auto +Q while the enemy was silenced vs the new talon who CANT auto +Q because the enemy will just dash/blink/push you away ??? You think that a single Q enhanced by his passive is MORE damage than actually auto attack once and then immediately Q? Have you ever played Talon? He got nerfed. not buffed. get your facts straight. read something about him from the forums. or guides in youtube. Talon is predictable. You know what he is going to do. He has low mobility. just stay away from his E range if you are so afraid of him.. or do something else. just auto attack him... do NOT use skillshots. just keep them for the moment Talon E's to you. you are gonna win every trade. In order for Talon to win a trade he needs to hit anything and NOT get hit by anything. If Talon hits everything on Ahri and Ahri hit everything on Talon they damage wont be balanced. Ahri is gonna win the trade. get it? in order to be a "good" Talon you need to dodge stuff by walking and sidestepping. not like zed who has his shadows or fizz who has his troll pole or Leblanc and kassadin with their mobility. And when he E's to you dont just run away. the closer you are to him the easier it is to dodge his W. just side step and use your skillshots. he gonna miss his rake and you gonna win the trade. Believe me. Talon right now is the weakest mid laner in the game. you have nothing to be afraid now that he lost his silence.

SouL1ess1 votes

This guy gets it...

For Talon to initiate any trade, the opponent must have already made an mistake. Initiating while the scales are balanced is suicide.

Even if you hit your full combo, if the enemy also hit their full combo on you, you have lost the trade. There is no way for Talon to initiate any trade unless the opponent already wasted a skill for no effect.

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