With the chalice rework this preseason, any chance of spammy mage nerf reverts? (Ziggs specifically)

The Worst KogMaw··2 votes·1,887 views

Not entirely sure where to ask this, first time posting on the new boards. xD

So since Ziggs was picked up in pro play he got a whole string of nerfs to address his enormous waveclear and infinite spam with chalice, though most of them didn't touch that issue directly and were more about safety (Q detection radius nerf, Attack range nerf, MS nerf, mana cost increases, CD increases). I was curious if he'd get anything back if the chalice issue was resolved. Specifically, I'd like to see Q detection radius increased again, but that's just because it's near impossible to hit at the moment on anyone paying a remote amount of attention. I even miss moving minions, though that's mostly fail muscle memory on my part.

But this is not a QQ thread!

There have been other mages who have had mana cost increases or other nerfs due to their interactions with chalice. If they prove too weak in preseason, would the balance team lean more towards re-buffing the champs or buffing new mana regen?

Edit: Whoops, I mean detection radius, not detonation radius. It's fixed now. I'm talking about the 180 to 150 detection thing. For comparison, Karthus's lay waste is 200.

10 Comments

TeemoHunter13371 votes

give him reduced ult cooldown and thats it.

his Q is so annoying and if u cant hit anyone with it then you are just bad this game.

The Worst KogMaw1 votes

While I acknowledge my suck, I could make the same argument that people who couldn't dodge the old radius were bad at this game.

Regardless, ult CD reduction would be welcome. Also, what specifically about Q do you find annoying? Just curious; I've never had someone explain it to me beyond the initial dislike.

Raja Chachki1 votes

It can do tons of damage when it hits, so much that it can chunk 1/4 of a squishie's health. I find Ziggs very fun, but he does need a small buff or two.

The Worst KogMaw1 votes

Ah, that is definitely a thing. I honestly would not mind having the base damage/ratio drop in return for other buffs though. IMO it'd be more fun for both parties to have it easier to hit, but do less damage when it does. Something like the somewhat less annoying Nidalee spears after her rework.

Sailor Mint1 votes

You're not supposed to be able to siege for all eternity with only a Chalice.

Morello's is +100% base mana regen and more AP.

The Worst KogMaw1 votes

I am aware. My topic is asking that if the new mana regen system happens to be weak on champs that previously relied on chalice/athene's to the point where they're no longer viable competitively would the regen be buffed or would the champs be buffed (or neither).

Sailor Mint2 votes
  • Using the relatively common 7 (+0.6) mana regen and 250 (+50) mana scalings.
  • All versions of Chalice/Athene's assume 50% mana.
  • Season 5 Athene's does not give more mana than Athene's.
  • Does not include mana regen from runes, masteries and other items.

Chalice: 7MP5 -> 50% Base Mana Regen Athene's: 10MP5 -> 50% Base Mana Regen. (S4) Mana Font: Increases your mana regeneration by 1% per 1% mana you are missing. (S5) Mana Font: Restores 1.5% of missing mana every 5 seconds. Forbidden Idol (60% Base Mana Regen). Morellonomicon (100% Base Mana Regen)

Champion LevelBase RegenBase ManaChalice (S4)Chalice (S5)Idol (S5)Grail (S4)Grail (S5)Morello (S5)
17.630021.913.712.226.413.715.2
28.235022.814.913.127.314.916.4
38.840023.716.214.128.216.217.6
49.445024.617.515.029.117.518.8
510.050025.518.816.030.018.820.0
610.655026.420.017.030.920.021.2
711.260027.321.317.931.821.322.4
811.865028.222.618.932.722.623.6
912.470029.123.919.833.623.924.8
1013.075030.025.120.834.525.126.0
1113.680030.926.421.835.426.427.2
1214.285031.827.722.736.327.728.4
1314.890032.729.023.737.229.029.6
1415.495033.630.224.638.130.230.8
1516.0100034.531.525.639.031.532.0
1616.6105035.432.826.639.932.833.2
1717.2110036.334.127.540.834.134.4
1817.8115037.235.328.541.735.335.6
The Worst KogMaw1 votes

Thanks a bunch, that chart is helpful. It's not as big a nerf on regen as I thought it was, at higher levels. I guess I'll have to see how things turn out.

AnomalousChimera1 votes

Does S5 Morellonomicon really give +100% Base Mana Regen? I already get it because of the 20% CDR, but that is pretty crazy if it's true. Riot basically encouraging people to buy a relatively low cost item that gives a good amount of AP, huge mana regen, great DCR reduction and infliction of Grievous Wounds when the target is under 40%.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Pretty much.

Not too sure why Forbidden Idol is 60% Base Mana and no items give 75%. I should probably math how much mana you need for Grail to be better.

More info in my other thread.

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