MAGE REWORK NOT SUPPORT REWORK!!!

Droppin Dymes·Mar 19, 2016·56 votes·3,813 views

Zyra IS a mage! I thought Riot was reworking mages.... this is a reworking of a support essentially. It is the wrong direction. Zyra IS a mage!

81 Comments

Lazypeon100Mar 19, 201626 votes

I think she should be a mid laner, but I'd like to point out that mages can be supports. Mage is a class, not a role.

Heckin SupportMar 19, 20168 votes

Mages can support, but supports can't be mages. If they become strong in any kind of solo role, riot whips out that nerf hammer really fast. cough Sona Lulu Soraka cough

CubedJusticeMar 20, 20163 votes

Oh yeah, it's not like Lulu has been a strong midlane pick for the longest time.

BattleBoarMar 20, 20163 votes

Let not for get champs like Zilean(who when play by the pro is all was mid) as well.

SaiannaMar 20, 20162 votes

Yi used to be best mage in LoL? And what? And he isn't anymore.

Zilean used to be OK'ish in mid, now he's all about supporting.

BattleBoarMar 20, 20161 votes

Yi was never a mage. A AD caster maybe or a Assassin (winch he still is)but never a mage.

As for Zilean. He just like Lulu. Why they are support champ in kit, if giving the gold of a solo lane then they get a lot more powerful. I'm trying to remember what game was it where a mid Zilean was play and the team with him got 18 kills and 0 deaths.

Ok after some looking it was NRG vs TSM - Week 3 Day 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp6VVYM554c&index=26&list=PLPZ7h6L6LC7XQHIsOu8QtpBfD2RK2SSQZ .

SaiannaMar 20, 20162 votes

Guess you are pretty new in LoL..

ZelnorackMar 20, 20161 votes

I remember the days. What was it?

1:1 scaling on Q, R reset everything INSTANTLY, and his meditate had a... what? 4:1 AP ratio? Yi would just heal for 4000 life late game because why the fuck not?

SaiannaMar 20, 20161 votes

AP Yi was OP as fk.

Which makes me wonder, why not just nerf the numbers? ratios? Make Yi be OK'ish as AP or AD... And now we are forced to play him as either AD or nothing.

Yea.. I'm still butthurt with Riots decision to rework him :|

BattleBoarMar 20, 20161 votes

Nope been here when Sejunai first came out.

I just agree with The Bearded Bard. Simple building AP does not make one a mage.

SaiannaMar 20, 20161 votes

Simple building AP does not make one a mage.

True, but if a champions has decent AP scallings on his abilities, then he's pretty much a mage. OFCOURSE it depends on how you build & play him.

"Mage Yi" is kinda sarcasm from my side

Anyways, point is: those guys were telling about old supports before they were nerfed by Riot and they were saying "how good they did in mid lane". That's long behind us.

And thus I am saying, Zyra should be a MAGE first, then maaaaaaybe Support.

BattleBoarMar 20, 20161 votes

The thing is so long as she has a lot of utility, people will play her as a support.

That why champs like Trundle, Poppy, Nautilus, Brand(more new to the lane), Annie and Fiddlestick(some of the more older) have been (or are) such great supports. As they have a lot of great utility in their kits for free. Unlike a normal support that need gold for their heals and shield to be good later on in the game.

So unless Riot take some of her utility away, it will just end up like it did when she first came out. Oh she a good mid? Then pros will find out she will make a better support, then ever one will see that and play her in the support lane. Then Riot will have to nerf her...well you now the rest.

SaiannaMar 20, 20161 votes

Brand was picked as support due to his flat passive, where he could go 0 ap and still deal dmg.

The Bearded BardMar 20, 20165 votes

Just because he used to build AP doesn't make him a mage.

Fizz Not a mage.

Evelynn Not a mage.

Katarina Not a mage.

Etc.

Lintu PuckMar 19, 20169 votes

Umm.....she is a mage and a support. She is the slowest mage support and has no natural speed boost unlike Lulu, Karma, Sona, Soraka and Zilean. Thus, she is an Immobile Mage and perfect for this update.

LankPantsMar 20, 20162 votes

I'd like to point out that Vlad and Cas both have movespeed boosts. MS boosts aren't considered as mobility.

Zyra was chosen because she is a traditional mage, not a supportive mage like the others. Mobility had nothing to do with it.

Voluug13Mar 20, 20162 votes

Karma having an MS, despite being an utility mage and not a support, was enough for Riot to use as an excuse to deny her a place on the MYMU.

And currently Zura is being reworked to be a support more that a midlaner, so...

YCitizenSnipsYMar 19, 20169 votes

TIL classes = role.

Mama SorakaMar 19, 20166 votes

I like Zyra as a support, which btw is still a mage class position. Sue me. Actually don't.

L0ve Is BlueMar 19, 20165 votes

The ONLYexpectation I had with this rework was that they would take Zyra back to mid since all the mages they chose for the rework are mostly seen in solo lanes and as AP carries, and then they come up with this ''bot lane mage'' thing and I couldn't be more frustrated and dissapointed. Litteraly almost no one wants her support, the only reason she is there is because the nerf she received forced her there and they want to push her deeper in there.

I really hope they change their mind, if they don't I'll just say bye bye to Zyra forever (and I REALLY don't want that but I'm tired of having to go bot lane to play one of my favorite champion just because mid is too dangerous for her).

KaipopMar 19, 20161 votes

Oh please. You barely play her.

L0ve Is BlueMar 20, 20161 votes

What you looked at my ranked stats and 10 last games on lol king? That is so relevant of what i play considering I almost played only normals for a year and then played like 1 ranked every 4 games.

KaipopMar 20, 20161 votes

You've played her 3 times in the last month.

L0ve Is BlueMar 20, 20161 votes

guess I got those 35K mastery from nowhere. And that is only AFTER the mastery system went on, I used to play her a lot more but these days I don't really feel like playing support unless I'm with a friend or I want to play a specific champion that looks fun to play support for me atm, so i play less of Zyra. I never said I was a Zyra main 1 trick pony always playin Zyra 39810938109k mastery with Zyra playin since her release. I don't play her as much as Lux Orianna but i did play her a fair amount of time. You must have a lot of time to lose to go through posts and look for the match history of everyone to see if they really play Zyra XD

KaipopMar 21, 20161 votes

No, it only took about a minute, but thanks for your concern. If you don't feel like playing her support, why not play her mid? And I never said you had to be an OTP, but I think feedback from players that don't play Zyra as much means less than those that do.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 20, 20165 votes

She IS a mage and was meant for mid originally, players forced her support.

Voluug13Mar 20, 20161 votes

Actually she was gutted when she was played midlaner and then she was used in support and Riot went to balance her from THAT role.

It wasnt the players, it was Riot that nerfed her damage leaving her with her utility, which was in the end nerfed too.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 20, 20161 votes

They HAD to nerf her damage though before zyra could simply just ulti and pentakill a team with how strong her damage was. Now she has to work a little harder for it although her plant ai still sucks. which will hopefully be fixed in the update.

Voluug13Mar 20, 20161 votes

Then nerf her base damages/AP ratios, but also her base stats were murdered too, which is what currently holds her back the most.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 21, 20161 votes

Well anyways when the mage update comes her kit will fortify her plants and kit more, with hopefully a better passive and increase how fluid she feels.

XeynidMar 20, 20165 votes

Mage =/= Mid

Those are two separate words.

CrazedPorcupineMar 20, 20164 votes

Those two terms are not mutually exclusive.

Brand/Annie/Zyra/Vel'koz/Lulu

All are mages, all can be support.

Support is a role/position, not a champion class.

The types of champions that DO support can be broken down into:

Guardians - Tanky Supports that focus primarily on peel and bodyguarding the ADC. Alistar, Leona, Braum, Shen, Poppy, etc. are all Guardians Clerics (For lack of a better word) - Squishy supports that focus more on sustain/mitigating damage. They'll often have some form of CC to help protect the ADC, but they often come equipped with heals, shields, and movement speed hastes. Soraka, Janna, Nami, Sona, and some others are Clerics. Blasters - AP Poke/Burst supports that have massive base damages, and come equipped with little to no CC save for one or two skills. They focus on whittling down the opponent, or just bursting them down in one massive combo. Annie, Brand, Vel'Koz are Blasters. Controllers - Champions that are loaded with CC, and focus on controlling the enemy's movement, or locking them down so they can't do anything. Often overlaps with Guardians, but not necessarily. Zyra, Naut, Shen, Trundle, Leona are all Controllers.

BattleBoarMar 20, 20162 votes

Well said and I think you did a great job in listing the type of support groups.

VanjieMar 19, 20163 votes

Yeah I read it as well. What a bunch of hypocrites Riot is. They refused to touch Karma for the sheer reason that they classify her as a "support/mage". Here we are . . . and they are working on a support oriented build for Zyra . . . . and reworking Brand . . . and Vel'Koz . . . who didn't need a rework and the community did not want touched. It's ok though . . . . Riot will apologize for the miscommunication and use this as an excuse for another botched rework they try to shove down our throats. Imbecile Riot balance and champ up team.

AbyssphereMar 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I read it as well. What a bunch of hypocrites Riot is. They refused to touch Karma for the sheer reason that they classify her as a "support/mage". Here we are . . . and they are working on a support oriented build for Zyra . . . . and reworking Brand . . . and Vel'Koz . . . who didn't need a rework and the community did not want touched. It's ok though . . . . Riot will apologize for the miscommunication and use this as an excuse for another botched rework they try to shove down our throats. Imbecile Riot balance and champ up team.

Their reason for not reworking Karma was because she was a supportive mage, not because she plays support sometimes. They wanted to hit the damage focused mages and given half of Karma's power budget goes into ally shielding and speed boosting, she's very different to every other person reworked.

Nobody who's being reworked interacts directly with their allies. Karma does. That's essentially the difference.

IxtaliKingMar 20, 20162 votes

You're right, but her kit only really became that way after Rickless decided she didn't need damage options outside of her Q. It hurts so bad :(

Voluug13Mar 20, 20161 votes

That only happened because they forcefully shifted her into a support lane instead of a midlaner, which is what she originally was.

SexySoapTurtleMar 20, 20162 votes

Lol to bad. I love how sheep love to get on the latest hype train. OH NO ZYRA IS BEING MADE INTO A SUPPORT? Suddenly all the Zyra Mains Are coming out of the wood work.

A LiberalMar 20, 20163 votes

wood work

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZoKaOnc7LAhXGYyYKHaHFC-wQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjeromiewilliams.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fi-see-what-you-did-there-iref-app-easily-avoidable-social-media-disasters%2Fi-see-what-you-did-there%2F&psig=AFQjCNFboZSB2IbKl-cQYGJ-qXvdIWAm5g&ust=1458527666043424

PokladnicaZlaMar 20, 20162 votes

Did you even read their replies or the discussion?

IxtaliKingMar 19, 20161 votes

I must be missing something with riot lately because I do not get how come to these decisions. They say they are focusing on damage oriented mages and not ones with supportive aspects like Karma (fair enough), but here they are in the Mage update planning to balance Zyra around support :/. Couple this with the fact tons of Vel'Koz players don't want him touched, but riot insist on reworking him. I really hope everything works out in the end, because if it doesn't I'm sure there will be hell to pay.

It Hertz When IPMar 19, 20167 votes

None of the Vel'Koz players wanted him touched. No one really minds facing him because his kit is straightforward and easily countered if you play well. He has literally been the epitome of a balanced champion almost since his release.

Riot: "Let's rework him."

IxtaliKingMar 19, 20161 votes

Their decision to rework him seems like they've just figured out something to make him a better pick, so they want us to just trust them on this. You know what they say about fixing what's not broken, especially when there are other mages who are so obviously missing the mark on many fronts.

Ariel the CruelMar 20, 20164 votes

Vel'Koz rework isn't about making him a "better" pick. It's about giving him a reason to "be" picked.

Right now, his output consists of: damage, low utility. That puts him in competition with Brand, Vlad, Viktor, Ryze (after nerf), Anivia, Cassiopia, and Xerath. Vlad has a niche of being super durable. Anivia niche is strong Zoning. Xerath niche is Long range. Cass is supposed to by a hyper carry.

So to fill the role of "damage and some utility", He's in direct competition with Brand, Ryze, and Viktor. Since they are each so strategically similar, the decision will always come down to "who does damage + some utility" better. Mind you, since they don't bring anything to bare that the niche champions don't, they have to do that output better by default.

Personally, I'm not against the goal. I just think there are a lot of much higher priorities. Even for the small scale they're suggesting. If they're going to do it anyways though, I hope they put more power into his true damage. Make his niche, "the mage who can shred tanks".

IxtaliKingMar 20, 20161 votes

Vel'Koz rework isn't about making him a "better" pick. It's about giving him a reason to "be" picked.

That's what I meant to say.

So to fill the role of "damage and some utility", He's in direct competition with Brand, Ryze, and Viktor.

This confuses me a little, is cc considered utility? I always thought utility was things like buffs, shields, heal, assisted mobility (Bard portal, Thresh Lantern) etc...

I do agree about the way these mages over lap though, it often makes choosing them come down to who you are more comfortable with or how you feel it's better to deal your damage that game. I know before Lux became super strong I had trouble deciding between her Xerath and Vel'Koz. It would be nice to see Vel'Koz become a dedicated tank shredder like an AP vayne, if Vel mains are cool with that it's cool.

TurquoiseYoshiMar 20, 20161 votes

Utility can be anything that can help a teammate rather than yourself. CC stuns an enemy so you or your teammate can beat them up. You can kinda compare this to something like Sona's W or Taric's Q where the user gets something as well as 1+ ally.

IxtaliKingMar 20, 20161 votes

Didn't know know that's how it was classified :/.

TurquoiseYoshiMar 20, 20163 votes

There's no official definition, but that's how I've always seen it.

StoryDuckMar 20, 20161 votes

Calm down. They are just focusing on her utility and powerful counter-engage/disengage power, zoning, and plant interations. That is all they mean. Would you rather they took away her utility and made her just another DPS mage?

BattleBoarMar 20, 20162 votes

Thank you! Some one else have put into word that I could not. Really so long as they keep her utility, I could care less what they do to her as that what I love about her. Of course that what make her a great support.