I'm a Silvertard, but I feel like there needs to be more of an incentive to not use TF's Gold Card.

Isaac McDougal··33 votes·2,227 views

Twisted Fate, without a doubt in one's mind, is a strong Map Support/Assassin-type champion, that uses his ultimate, Destiny, but more commonly its second use Gate, to teleport somewhere in order to peel for an ally or lock down/secure enemy champions with the Gold Card. However, even out of a scenario like this one, most people will just use their Gold Card since both other cards are just...meh. The Blue Card is known for dealing the most base damage (40/60/80/100/120 at respective ranks), refunding the Mana cost and granting even more back (10/20/30/40/50 at respective ranks) than before casing Pick a Card. The Red Card is the middle-of-the-pack in terms of damage, but is generally just ignored when in-game outside of waveclear, as both Blue and Yellow Cards can be considered miles better. The reason for this is because it deals 10/15/20/25/30 less damage than the Blue Card, but deals only double more than the Gold Card, which stuns for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds in contrast to the Red Card's area of effect slow for 10%/20%/30%/40%/50% for 2.5 seconds all ranks. In order to hold an incentive to pick a Red or Blue card towards enemy champions instead of gold, tweaking of the scalings would be needed, rather than base damage. A scaling a propose for potentially Gold Cards would be 80% of Attack Damage and 40% of Ability Power, Red Cards would get a stronger slow of 45%/50%/55%/60%/65% but Blue Cards would be changed to 120% of Attack Damage(Maybe not.) and 60% of Ability Power. Thanks for reading this possibly-a-shitpost

27 Comments

lolptwo20 votes

Diamond 3 here who enjoys to play TF.

All 3 cards have extremely versatile use and are actually very purposeful and unique. You're thinking of it wrong, you don't use different cards in 1v1 situations, you pick cards for DIFFERENT situations.

For ex: Blue card is best for laning phase and maintaining your mana, this is the card that you will use the majority of your laning phase to cs correctly, win effective trades and not go OOM.

Red Card: is best for clumped up team fights and team fighting in general, ever seen a group of enemies standing in a big cluster? Grab a red card it will actually do more dmg to their team than any Yellow or Blue card can do while slowing a large portion of their team, and it will help your team a lot ( even if it's not appreciated)

Yellow Card; This is your gank card, and 1v1 card. You need to utilize this card and it's mostly seen as the card that will GET you the kill, but it's actually not the most effective card in different situations.

For ex: Lets say 3 people are chasing you, A Sion, Yasuo and Fizz in that order. If you pick a Yellow Card and stun Q Sion, Yasuo and Fizz will still catch you If you pick Red card you will slow all 3 of them and you will live.

Now lets say you're in early game laning phase and you keep picking Yellow/Red card for best trade/waveclear as possible. You will eventually go OOM and have to back and you will most likely not be sustaining your lane properly.

TF is actually one of the most balanced champs in the game right now.

Remlap12233 votes

This, I may be ass with TF, but his cards are actually useful in multiple situations (kinda the point). It may have been that way a while back, but after Luden's Echo got released he became more than a stun bot.

JerulEon1 votes

Hey AegonTheDragon7, I've been playing TF in plat; thanks for sharing those tips.

I was wondering if you could give me some tips on how to play TF late game in terms of team-fighting and split-pushing.

I find that his team fighting is average to fantastic depending on the enemy team comp because an enemy team with Annie and 3 tanks just seems impossible to beat in a 5v5.

Also, I feel like his ultimate becomes more difficult to use because the longer the game, the harder it is to get roams/picks without a huge risk. Should I be splitting when facing a superior team composition?

LegendmakerGX1 votes

I'm Plat 1 and was ranked 8th top tf in NA with over 90 matches with over 74% winrate , was at 83% winrate but losing just 1 time takes 2% off my rate. Here is my advice. FK your jungler and screw your team because when you are tf YOU ARE THE BEST GANKER and support here is how I play tf I carry. Since I am skilled with tf and know how to farm even when losing I always give kills to my lane when I gank because when you give them kills they will have a good chance of steam rolling their lane so you can then focus and camp other lane with your jungler. As a tf main I can tell you to NEVER rely on a jungler since you don't know if he can even gank well but guess what? YOU AS TF CAN. Why? Because of all champion you have a click aim non skill shot stun.

Which lane should I gank first? BOT Is the best lane to automatically gank at lvl 3 or 4 if your enemy bot is on the tri bush side then always push your lane so hard that at lvl 3 or 4 you can leave your lane and go from the back tri bush at lvl 3 and if you do make the gank or fail then when you return to lane 90% chance the lane minion will be in the middle, also you have to push hard to their tower so they won't see you go bot river and think you B since who gank with tf at lvl 3?.

ALWAYS AIM FOR THE SUPPORT FIRST and spam mark on the enemy support.why? Because when you gank chances are if you aim for the adc he would have a mobility ability or his support for example Janna will set up a tornado/stun/slow. If you aim for the support there is no way for adc to cc you from killing her, give the kill to adc since all you need is the assist gold. You do nt want to gank top since the enemy will probably flash away and it would be harder to do a 2v1 rather then go bot and do a 3v1 a support for a insure kill even if the support flash or exhaust.

K for your answer about late game. YOU ARE THE SOLO LANE LATE GAME.Tell your top with purple tp to either bot or if it's super late game then all mid while you either top or bot. Why do I go alone and solo a lane? Why not top who has tp do split push while I mid with the rest?

Most top don't have fast wave clear, by lvl 10 which should be late game you can clear a while wave with red and Q. TELL your team to all mid and push hard while you also push hard, chances are the enemy team will all mid with your team. TELL THEM TO RUN ALWAYS but keep on pushing if the enemy backs off or a new minion wave comes, while you will keep on pushing. When you see a enemy either 1 or 2 go in the jungle chances are he is coming for you so spam mark your team to push mid and force a fight since if they get into a fight you can ult in, reason are 1. This gives you a perfect position to ult in from the back and W STUN WITH E STACK on either enemy adc or mid because remember it's going to be only 4vs4 but you can ult in making it a 5v4 and get a stun by suprise while your team rushes in and force a team fight.

Also your ult is way WAY faster then a tp and you don't need a ward or minion to ult for your position while if top who comes to stop your wave push has to tp late to the team fight since tp takes 2.5 sec and he needs a minion to tp in so his positioNing is not ensure a good one.

Ask me if you want to know the best split build if you want but this is my advice if you wanna be a good tf. Sorry using a phone to write this out since I'm on vacation so can't see my Grammer really well.

JerulEon1 votes

{quoted}

Ask me if you want to know the best split build if you want but this is my advice if you wanna be a good tf. Sorry using a phone to write this out since I'm on vacation so can't see my Grammer really well.

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to try out the lvl 4 cheese strategy in my next game, and split-pushing.

Also, I noticed that you go Nashor's tooth and that seemed surprising. What makes you want to go that?

LegendmakerGX2 votes

Push hard and i mean hard to the enemy turret at lvl 3 because if you do they enemy bot lane will be lvl 2 when you gank. This tactic usually works only if the enemy is on the tri bush side since it gives you space to go from the back to stun and get a nother stun off even if the suppory <<< ( aim for him) who can flash and exhaust. Also my build

You go doran ring first obviously then automatically get a lucidy boot on always first B so you have 10 or 15 % cooldown if you took that 45% max cooldown, you always want to gank non stop with tf since you got a non skill shot stun so it is good to get cooldown. After the boot you ALWAYS this is a must have item is to build lich bane. After lich If you are v sing a ap champion enemy then you go aby se September. Here we get to your question why build nashor tooth and why not rod of ages like you do, you have to remember that tf has to rely on his auto attack to stack off E and trust me if you do build nashor you can SOLO ANY LANE even a tank top, this build makes sure you can 100% solo a adc no matter what and take ignite. Since 1 nashor give atrack speed why give auto attack damage boost which also does ap damage.2 the item gives 80 ap and 20% cooldown since you need to max cooldown if you want to solo aND go alone. Last item should be void rod to SLAUGHTER AND TANK/adc/mid who try to be even stupid enough to try to stop your split push alone

You have luc boot and lich bane which gives you 20 or or 25% cooldown so if you get nashor you can max It to 40/45% so you can get a srun off ever 4 sec and Q+E. People don't realize it but E does crazy damage and chances are if you do stun them you will get off 2 E off for the first stun with combo and a 2nd E after stun.

Here is a problem with your build, you are going rod of ages which is a no situation t the only reason you should ever get ages is only if they either have a fizz or a zed which are burst champion and the BEST OF ALL way to counter tf because ages cost alot now but does not offer cooldown which delays your max cooldown which I'm seeing your games end by then.

Why not holy grail or the purple looking book item that both give 20% cooldown why nashor? Sorry I forgot the 2 other items name, reason are nashor gives 80AP with attack speed to process E way faster and 20% cooldown + au to atrack dam age boost with ap damage. The ordinary tf player don't realize that E does crazy damage so they always never buy nashor since they never give it a try.

If you do my build then by the time you get nashor you can solo a turret faster then a full build adc. ( always use blue card on turrent) chances are it will take 5 blue card and auto attack which is fast thx to your max cooldown and nashor attack speed.

Only champion you should build Zonya or ages is either v sing zed or fizz which is my only counter. I can counter practically all mids even Leblec you should be able to beat her and out damage her if you don't give her kills.

MAIN TF counter are zed/fizz (bring exhaust it won't save you after lvl 6 but it can stop them from diving you) reason are fizz trickster make your stun card if you throw it at him do nothung and zed ult is like a trickster too making him untarget able even when you throw the stun card it will do nothing if zed ults you when the card/stun travel to him. Next champion who counter you who are ap is viegar. The others are annie/lux/ahri/Leblec (you can actually beat and counter them if you dodge just 1 of their skill shot spells snce all of them needs to lane ever skill shot to get a burst kill). NO yasou does not counter a tf trust me in all my main tf games out of 20 m aches I love v sing a yasou since all you need to do is trick him by making him wind wall first since he will be saving it for your W stun card bythrowing a Q when you hold onto your stun card since they wait for tf spell animation. I only lost 3 times out of 20 v sing a yasou in lane.

JerulEon1 votes

{quoted}

If you do my build then by the time you get nashor you can solo a turret faster then a full build adc. ( always use blue card on turrent) chances are it will take 5 blue card and auto attack which is fast thx to your max cooldown and nashor attack speed.

Lol ok I'm going to try out your build. Thanks for the in-depth help! :)

lolptwo2 votes

Hey JerulEon, You're welcome. I am merely Diamond 3, I usually search up Guides from "DopA" on youtube.

In terms of late game depending on how the game looks Teamfighting you generally want to stay out of Flash - 1 shot champs. Your Q's and W's(whether Yellow or Red) will be doing a lot of poke dmg and if you were lucky enough to pick up Ludens, your Q alone will be very good poke.

If everyone is clumped as 5 you will be sitting in the back poking people down with Q depending on how deep the enemy front line is catching him out with a Yellow Card Q is a great way to lean the entire team fight in your favor (so long as you're in position)

(you never engage late late game with Destiny unless the big fight has already happened and a lot of summs/ultimates were burned and your team WON the fight and they are running to escape, they you can Destiny to catch the remaining the reason for this being, if you engage with Destiny right away they will just exhaust CC you, you will die immediately and probably cost the game)

**Watch for flanks ** From champions such as Kha, LB, Flash Annie, Talon etc... If you're looking to play TF as a main you will run into a lot of Fizz, Diana, Talon, Zed, Lb. Very rare will you face something else.

Every time you use your ult, you need to access the situation. Personally I run TF mid with TP in most cases just because TF is all about reaching his LV 6 powerspike where you can immediately turn a gank into a insta kill. Having TP means I just play safe in mid lane, farm farm farm (make use of that passive and if all else fails I still have incredible map presence with being able to TP back to my lane or elsewhere)

Splitting to me is more of a game decision rather than "I split vs this comp that comp" deciding when to split is completely relied on many different factors inn the game: who you are playing against, what is the score, can you guys team fight?, what does the game look like, can you get away with splitting, are their assasins fast?, do they have tp up, is baron up, are they nearing 5 drags, do we have map vision?.

That being said, you should always be clearing waves using Red Card and Q, but make sure your team knows where you are.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

Cheers.

MunchCrunchLunch7 votes

I think pretty much everyone would rather use gold card over red card even in clumped team fights

Volgaria3 votes

{quoted}

I think pretty much everyone would rather use gold card over red card even in clumped team fights

You literally just made a statement with nothing to back it up. Did you read any of Aegon's post?

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

I'd rather have a stun on anyone than a minute slow. the red card slow isn't significant and most of the damage comes from the lichbane so not a whole lot of aoe damage. time is only so much. I feel like putting more into the other cards would be great. do I see some situations where it could be useful. i guess. but you can find that about anything. you can find a good reason to buy wits end in some situation still a terrible item

and you'd be depending on their mistake. why would they clump with a red card shown? meanwhile a targeted stun is much more reliable.

VentusDragoon3 votes

The slow's actually pretty noticeable. It doesn't need to be a Nasus Wither level slow to be good.

Also, you're not supposed to hold out your card before a teamfight, you're supposed to pick on the fly.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

you can still see it before he uses it. and rfs range isn't that great. hes almost always used for ganks. hes not known for full on team fighting. hes a split pusher

VentusDragoon1 votes

He is a split pusher, it's what he's great at. You can also see ALL of his cards before he uses them, so that isn't too great of a reasoning when saying red card's worse than the others.

Even though he's a split pusher, that doesn't mean he needs to make his team fight every teamfight as a 4v5.

Volgaria1 votes

{quoted}

For ex: Lets say 3 people are chasing you, A Sion, Yasuo and Fizz in that order. If you pick a Yellow Card and stun Q Sion, Yasuo and Fizz will still catch you If you pick Red card you will slow all 3 of them and you will live.

In this situation, you are probably screwed no matter what, but if you stun 1 the other 2 WILL kill you. But with red card you have a chance to slow all 3 if they are together or at a spot where they can't spread out. Also, teamfights, you can slow and damage an entire team instead of just stunning and doing less damage to one target. Granted, that target could be a lot higher priority and the stun might be a better option. Red card could still be a good option in team fights to slow / damage and try to nuke down a while team.

Papa Slothy1 votes

as a player that needs to get better at TF this helped me understand the whole draw a card situation

thanks bud

Fondling Gems7 votes

I feel like more focus needs to be put onto red card's waveclear. Make tf's q do % less dmg to minions and buff red card to either a bit more dmg or % more to minions/monsters

Isaac McDougal2 votes

{quoted}

I feel like more focus needs to be put onto red card's waveclear. Make tf's q do % less dmg to minions and buff red card to either a bit more dmg or % more to minions/monsters

It's always been Wild Card's job to clear the wave. There's a reason it has that special quality of not dropping damage upon hitting units.

Fondling Gems1 votes

Yes but that is part of what makes red card feel useless. If you pull blue you get extra dmg and mana, gold is stun, red is you fucked up

Jungle Lux God1 votes

As a jungle main who loves to do some crazy stuff, I would love it if Red card did bonus damage to monsters.

Hayaishi26 votes

Nerf his Q waveclear (which is absolutely retarded btw) switch it to his red card, nerf his gold card damage and give blue card more damage.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Nerf his Q waveclear (which is absolutely retarded btw) switch it to his red card, nerf his gold card damage and give blue card more damage.

thinking the same.

gold card should deal almost no damage, except with the bonus damage on his e, and mainly be used for the utility.

his red card is fine. if im not mistaken, it spreads the e damage over the whole area, so its waveclear is actually really good. maybe increase the area by a good amount, and remove the slow.

his blue card could deal a bit more single target damage.

Bonipherus2 votes

This. Tf's pick a card is so flowchart-y it doesn't have enough meaningful decision making.

Jacknife1 votes

Yeah, it's kinda sad how an ability that's holding a lot of his power budget only has one iteration that's useful (like 90% of the time) and the other two are pretty much swept aside for situational purposes (mana needs or waveclear).

Old Man Teeto1 votes

His Blue card and Red card are highly incentivized for Objectives/Towers/Minion waves.

Blue card towers, Dragon, Baron.

Red Card creep waves.

Team fights however, a targeted 2 second stun is just... well there's a reason why there's highlight reels of Reginald pulling the wrong card.

PiVoRx1 votes

I think, after using gold card the cd of ability should be longer, but still the same for other ones. Its kinda stupid how tf can kite any meele by spamming gold card every 4 seconds with 2 second stun.

Llanite1 votes

Red if I want to waveclear/ they stand close to a minion but behind them. Blue if it's off CD and I don't have the range to red/gold them. Gold if they are within range.

Even if blue offer x3 dmg of gold, you still want to use gold, as it lets you also hit Q AND walk away from the trade with no retaliation.

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