Should Wit's End be buffed?

Isaac McDougal·5/11/2016, 3:29:39 AM·12 votes·1,462 views
Wit's End

Now, we all have had that encounter with the purple blade while we were bad and still leveling our accounts. "40 Magic Damage!" you thought to yourself as you scanned the item. "Holy shit, 40 MR too?" You had to get it. It was a bargain after all! So you bought and went back to lane. You started autoing the enemy laner, but alas, no result. Bummer. A shitty bargain within a shitty bargain. But it wasn't even a bargain, it was 2.8 thousand gold. You swear to yourself about how the item sucks, and sell it to buy a second Statikk Shiv.

Alright, kiddies. Storytime's over. Now with the Midseason Magic Update, we got all this cool shit, like a revolver item that finally shoots things, Mei's rocket launcher, the I'm-Annie-and-I-need-a-Blink-but-I'm-not-level-eight-yet, the God of Ages is now the Shod of Ages, and our favorite budget Bilgewater novel stole the Unholy Grail's passive because the author is a douchebag. Don't worry though, Mr. Goblet! You got a compensation prize! It's called a math formula more complicated to understand than Whisper's!

More things were changed, but for TL:DR another focus of the changes was to grant a little more artificial power to Mages by nerfing some MR items but mainly the Mercurial Scimitar through changing it to only remove CC effects. That raises the question: should they buff Wit's End? One could raise the question of it causing another generic anti-Mage sword to be relevant. However, with Scimitar's remove-all being limited and being forced to now pick between Sterak's Gage or the Maw of Malmortius, it could be seen possible as the power-pick between the three. My method of achieving this is through either allowing Wit's End to Crit or buffing its damage/MR steal.

Now, the first method mentioned is allowing Wit's End to Crit like I just said. With Crit, Wit's End is given the ability to be picked up by Marksmen who need more MR, but keep some damage. This might make it viable, but thing about this is that it shoehorns Wit's End into only Marksmen, Tryndamere, and Yasuo. However, because of this, it might allow for more Marksmen that are actually centered around their Basic Attacks like Twitch and Varus especially to make a possible return.

The second method is buffing damage alltogether. The first way this could be done is granting 10 damage to it. Done and simple. The second, however, could be to add Magic Damage based on how much Magic Resist you've stolen. This could raise its potential damage from base 40 to 65. Lower than a Crit, for sure, but it's a route. This could be an alternative to the method just mentioned as a way to avoid Wit's End being shoved to the role of Crit users, and open it up to Champions like Irelia and Jayce.

The third method I'm devising is raising its Magic Resist steal per hit to seven, eight, nine, or even ten, effectively making it the Black Cleaver for pansy Muggles. Doing this could make it more, relevant but this could most likely be seen as incredibly dangerous. The problem with raising the MR grab against enemies is not how much they're losing, but how much you're gaining. The base Magic Resist of Wit's End is 40. If it is raised above five, the amount of Magic Resist could be as high as 90 with stealing ten from the enemy. Champions like, Olaf, Irelia, the Kindred FUCKING JAX, and Udyr would most likely terrorize League, signing tickets to Super Hell.

Thanks for reading this shitpost. If you liked it, cool.

34 Comments

Keti5/11/2016, 8:06:25 PM3 votes

Make warwick great again

Jonheath2915/11/2016, 4:18:23 AM3 votes

Teemo item 3085 item 3091 item 3115 item 3006 item 3031 item 3022

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Sir Hammerlock5/11/2016, 3:36:26 AM2 votes

Wit's End used to damage mana on Champions, too, way back in the day. Ever since they removed that, the weapon has just been meh.

MunchCrunchLunch5/11/2016, 4:01:23 AM2 votes

on hit builds do no damage compared to crit unless you have a 2.5+ as kayle or kog maw that do spalsh damage. wits end is one of those reasons. why get 40 magic on hit when you can get crit and as items that double your damage output and stack additevely.

to make wits end a good item. increase the on hit to like 60 on hit. and give it a better build path. also give on hit builds. some sort of crit. not crit. but something. i dont like the phantom hit concept but something like that.

also i'd like if it stole MR by percentage. like black cleaver. but more because MR is less on most champions. 8% per hit stacking up to 5 times for 40%.

Tribbles Foxfolk5/11/2016, 7:43:21 AM2 votes

Wit's End falls off really easy on most champs after the mid-game and just flat-out doesn't do enough for the cost. You can roughly get a Statikk Shiv for more mixed damage, crit, waveclear, and multi-target magic damage.

I really only find it situational at best on the vast vast VAST majority of champions, really only 3 I can think of right off the bat that would consider it core: Kayle Early Nashor's Tooth does more damage AND has 20% CDR, so Wit's End is STILL not a good early item for even Kayle. Teemo Wit's End gives more on-hit magic damage and shreds FLAT MR, I guess, so maybe it's good early? I still like Nashor's better. Udyr ONLY ON PHOENIX. Tiger is more about AD-scaling instead of on-hit, so Wit's End sucks for one of his two builds.

Teridax685/11/2016, 10:02:57 AM2 votes

Marksmen already have enough anti-mage options to not need another, so I wouldn't go for crit (the item's also not geared towards crit-builders in the first place), and I don't think raising its damage or MR steal would be the best course of action, as it's really powerful on the champions who do pick it. Perhaps it could be made into a more powerful, more expensive item (which would be the "scaling" solution), but even then I don't know if that would really help.

Right now, I think the main issue with Wit's End is that it's not really an interesting item on most champions. There are plenty of on-hit magic damage dealers who'd normally love a MR-shredding item, and who could potentially make good use of its MR too, but there are better, more specialized options for either. If you want proper defense against magic damage, many items out there have better defenses and a better build path, and if you want more magic damage on an on-hit champion, Nashor's Tooth and Guinsoo's Rageblade do a much better job (Sorcerer's Shoes are also a simple and effective option). The magic resist steal is powerful, but poorly visible, and in general the item doesn't really feel like it adds to the user's kit. By contrast, even a shred item like Black Cleaver feels powerful because it's got better optimization and more attractive stats, and it also has the advantage of a shred paradigm that works better, since physical damage is better-suited towards DPS whereas magic resistance shredding tends to be at its strongest at the very beginning of a fight, when every AP champion has their abilities ready, and not later on, when they go on cooldown. If Wit's End really needs to continue existing, it should probably ditch the steal component on its passive and focus on MR shredding, possibly even shred differently (e.g. apply all of its shred instantly and have it decay over time).

Another potential reason why Wit's End isn't popular is because its build kinda sucks. For the most part, you're stuck with a Null-Magic Mantle in your inventory when you'd rather have a Negatron Cloak, which makes it an even poorer reactive pick against magic damage dealers. Here's the recipe I'd give it:

#Wit's End

  • Recipe: Negatron Cloak + Recurve Bow + Kircheis Shard + 1030g (3500g total)
  • Stats:
  • +50 magic resistance
  • +50% attack speed
  • +50 magic damage on-hit
  • New unique passive - Energized Strike: Moving and using basic attacks Energize you. When fully Energized, your next basic attack deals 50 - 150 bonus on-hit magic damage, based on level, and reduces the target's magic resistance by 25 - 50, based on level, for 5 seconds. The magic resistance shred applies before the on-hit magic damage.

So basically an item that lets on-hit magic damage dealers initiate and give themselves and their team a window to go nuts on them, which they can then recharge by attacking and moving. The numbers are almost certainly off (the shred duration should probably be a lot lower, more like 2.5-3 seconds), and with the above recipe you could very well just remove the Negatron Cloak entirely and make it a purely offensive MR shred + magic on-hit damage item.

ltmetal5/11/2016, 10:34:17 PM1 votes

Wit's End was viable right up until the point it stopped doing 42 damage on hit. It knew the answer to life, the universe, and everything until that patch.

Hullabaloo9075/11/2016, 9:22:04 AM1 votes

They should just get rid of the Mr and make it a purely offensive item. Most of its problems comes from its direct competition with abyssal

Glaedr5/11/2016, 9:26:31 AM1 votes

I don't think allowing it to crit is the right solution. It's an interesting item, but it doesn't belong on ADCs. I feel like the item should be niche and become a solid item on auto attacking mages, like above examples with the dude giving Kayle, Teemo, and AP Udyr. I really like its design, it's just way too weak to justify buying it over some CDR or penetration and generally you don't need much more than a Nashor's Tooth on above champions. If it stole more MR, it could actually be pretty scary in extended trades, which is generally what those types of mages want.

Pierce The Veal5/11/2016, 10:38:20 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KOR Kylo Ren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JK6oL9e7,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-11T03:29:39.063+0000)

Now, we all have had that encounter with the purple blade while we were bad and still leveling our accounts. "40 Magic Damage!" you thought to yourself as you scanned the item. "Holy shit, 40 MR too?" You had to get it. It was a bargain after all! So you bought and went back to lane. You started autoing the enemy laner, but alas, no result. Bummer. A shitty bargain within a shitty bargain. But it wasn't even a bargain, it was 2.8 thousand gold. You swear to yourself about how the item sucks, and sell it to buy a second Statikk Shiv.

Alright, kiddies. Storytime's over. Now with the Midseason Magic Update, we got all this cool shit, like a revolver item that finally shoots things, Mei's rocket launcher, the I'm-Annie-and-I-need-a-Blink-but-I'm-not-level-eight-yet, the God of Ages is now the Shod of Ages, and our favorite budget Bilgewater novel stole the Unholy Grail's passive because the author is a douchebag. Don't worry though, Mr. Goblet! You got a compensation prize! It's called a math formula more complicated to understand than Whisper's!

More things were changed, but for TL:DR another focus of the changes was to grant a little more artificial power to Mages by nerfing some MR items but mainly the Mercurial Scimitar through changing it to only remove CC effects. That raises the question: should they buff Wit's End? One could raise the question of it causing another generic anti-Mage sword to be relevant. However, with Scimitar's remove-all being limited and being forced to now pick between Sterak's Gage or the Maw of Malmortius, it could be seen possible as the power-pick between the three. My method of achieving this is through either allowing Wit's End to Crit or buffing its damage/MR steal.

Now, the first method mentioned is allowing Wit's End to Crit like I just said. With Crit, Wit's End is given the ability to be picked up by Marksmen who need more MR, but keep some damage. This might make it viable, but thing about this is that it shoehorns Wit's End into only Marksmen, Tryndamere, and Yasuo. However, because of this, it might allow for more Marksmen that are actually centered around their Basic Attacks like Twitch and Varus especially to make a possible return.

The second method is buffing damage alltogether. The first way this could be done is granting 10 damage to it. Done and simple. The second, however, could be to add Magic Damage based on how much Magic Resist you've stolen. This could raise its potential damage from base 40 to 65. Lower than a Crit, for sure, but it's a route. This could be an alternative to the method just mentioned as a way to avoid Wit's End being shoved to the role of Crit users, and open it up to Champions like Irelia and Jayce.

The third method I'm devising is raising its Magic Resist steal per hit to seven, eight, nine, or even ten, effectively making it the Black Cleaver for pansy Muggles. Doing this could make it more, relevant but this could most likely be seen as incredibly dangerous. The problem with raising the MR grab against enemies is not how much they're losing, but how much you're gaining. The base Magic Resist of Wit's End is 40. If it is raised above five, the amount of Magic Resist could be as high as 90 with stealing ten from the enemy. Champions like, Olaf, Irelia, the Kindred FUCKING JAX, and Udyr would most likely terrorize League, signing tickets to Super Hell.

Thanks for reading this shitpost. If you liked it, cool.

I like the highly increased mr shred. As for ridiculous amounts of MR, simple, now it only steals half of the MR shred.

The Yetii Rider5/11/2016, 1:24:23 PM1 votes

The problem with on-hit items is that the user either needs to be tanky enough to survive and get some hits in, or they need to be ranged.

The best way to buff Wit's End isn't any of the things you mention. It's to give it health, make it an offensive counterpart to Spirit Visage.

New recipe: Null Magic Mantle + Giant's Belt + Recurve Bow + 550 (3000 total)

40% AS 50 MR 500 Health

Unique Passive: Your basic attacks deal 40 magic damage on hit.

Unique Passive: Enemies struck by your basic attacks lose 10 MR for 3 seconds. (Further hits refresh duration.)

Sire Hippington5/11/2016, 7:31:11 PM1 votes

Wit's certainl can use some buffs, buit it doesn't need any crit for sure. The entire point of an item like Wit's is to offer dps on NO!!!! - crit builts. If you want an offenive mr item that scales with crit, maw and mercurial are enough options.

The main issues right now are that it's not gold efficient enough to be a rush item in lane, nor is it slot efficent enough for beeing a good lategame item, and the builtpath is uneccesarily ankward.

I think the best option would be increaseing the dps it gives a not by upping the AS to 50% and increasing the damage based on mr stolen, maybe with a small buff to the mr steal(6 instead of 5) This should go together with replaceing the nulmage mantel with a negatron cloak in the built path and increaseing the total cost by some(maybe to 3100) as well as maybe slightly lowering the base on-hit(30-35), cause up to 70 on hit with 50% as would be quite alot on top of the mr and mr steal for that gold.

Venowolf5/11/2016, 7:56:14 PM1 votes

Change the mr stealth on hit to: 3(+5%mr) from 5, in this way it can stealth more in champs that stack great amounts of me also be relevant in late game.

FourVsFive5/11/2016, 4:18:04 AM1 votes

if they buffed it to 50magic dmg per hit i would use it.

Valhalla Rising5/11/2016, 8:17:30 PM1 votes

it should stack 6 times and not steal but just shred 5% enemys MR per stack.

Wenderwall5/11/2016, 8:52:20 PM1 votes

Why not give it one more passive same as item 3156. Then it will have a decent use in Magic damage build. Like item 3156 is best for AD build with armor pen + MR + AD + awesome passive.

Wit's End has similar. On-hit Magic damage + MR + AS + MR steal (kinda magic pen) and if it provides the shield.. I'll totally use it on shyv and dive in their front-line tanky their ADC + support + mages hit. pop the shield and I fly back.

KillerKell5/11/2016, 7:04:59 AM1 votes

I've always loved the item, and with Sated tried to use it in as many Sated Builds as I can.

Also it's a great item for Anti-Mages... but the problem with that is the most common Anti-Mage is Kassadin, who doesn't really need it. I mean, sure... he CAN use it... but I've never seen it in a legit Kassadin Build. I've made Kassadin Builds with it... but I did say I never saw it in a LEGIT Kassadin Build. :D

The idea of every Auto Attack making me STRONGER vs. Mages (More MR) and making them WEAKER versus Mages and Hybrid Damages (whether myself or Allies) is amazing. It really is. It's The Black Cleaver of MR, except TBC gives you HP up front instead of granting you the Armor 'stolen'.

I don't want the 'up front pay off'... I want to keep the "I hit you once, you lose X MR and I gain it... I hit you twice...". I also like that it gives Attack Speed at a huge 40%... since, you know, it works better the more Auto's you land. +25 MR for you and -25 MR for them is nice.

But like you say... it needs something, more.

First, let me say I voted for your "Steal More MR" because that is the UNIQUE Function and what makes this item what it is. This going 'far enough' would almost warrant in on Champions that don't even look at Attack Speed... but it would STILL be a Niche Item. I mean, that's good... not Item should be 100% Buy. But it might make it to OP.

So I'd like to offer this.

At 5 Stacks, when you get your +25 and they are -25, it does an additional 100 True Damage instantly AND 100 Magical Damage over 5 Seconds (20 DPS) affected by MR (which you've just nerfed the hell out of). I'm also down with a small, say 100 HP Magic Shield further protecting you from said Mages.

So BAM, hit 5 Stacks and you have your same old +25/-25, but now 100 True Damage and 100 Magic Damage over 5 Seconds (must reset to 0 Stacks to proc again, can't be used on Same Champion in X Seconds kind of thing, so no abusing)... and a small 100 HP Magic Shield to help sustain the Anti-Mage Fight.

I think that isn't to strong, 200 Damage of which 100 can be mitigated by some form of MR (or cleansed on the DOT part) and a very small Shield vs. Magic Damage.

Krinu5/11/2016, 7:18:59 AM1 votes

It's a pretty niche item these days - Kayle and Teemo take it with some builds, but they're pretty much the only ones.